New solar plant in Portland touted as good taxpayer investment
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PORTLAND, Ore. - A new solar plant now up and running in North Portland received public funds and is slated to bring about 450 jobs to the city in the next three years.
Seventy percent of the funding for SoloPower is coming from taxpayers, both locally and nationally.
The company makes super thin and flexible solar panels. It will target commercial buildings as its customers rather than homes and neighborhoods.
At the ribbon cutting ceremony Thursday, Mayor Sam Adams tried to allay the fears some people may have about the investment of public funds after the failures of companies like Solyndra and Abound. He said it will be a good investment for taxpayers.
"That's why even though ours is a loan, it's actually not even a loan, our contribution to this project is a backstop to a state loan, so we didn't even have to write a check," he said.
What he's saying is that Portland's risk in the venture is the $5 million backing of a state loan to SoloPower. He calls it "a backstop," with the company's equipment as the collateral.
Overall, SoloPower is slated to receive nearly $200 million in loans from the U.S. Energy Department and another $40 million in state and local funds and tax breaks.
It comes as SolarWorld in Hillsboro, supported by $100 million in state and local tax incentives, is struggling.
But if it's such a good industry and the Chinese are chomping at the bit to get their products into the United States, why does it need public investment?
"The Chinese are taking over the traditional crystalline photovoltaic industry because they're state-owned companies," Adams said.
He called it a "myth" that every successful business venture happens only with private money.
SoloPower's CEO, Tim Harris, refused to discuss specifics about the taxpayer's return on investment – in regards to the cost per watt – and would only say the cost per watt is "good enough" so that the company should turn a profit by early next year.
SoloPower's 450 jobs are expected to have an average salary of $51,000 a year.
TJ Haile of Northeast Portland got one of those. Until getting hired at SoloPower, she was unemployed for about a year after being laid off from her job at Siltronic along with 350 others.
Now Haile's in charge of the machine that tests the solar panels for how much electricity they conduct. She's one of 60 workers already hired by the cutting edge company.
Adams said he wants Portland's role in clean energy to be what Houston's is to oil.
Well, it's got to be better than SolarWorld USA. Â They've been laying off people left right and center starting yesterday. Â Engineers, operators, managers... Â Don't see any story in the news about it yet.
Reported on FOX that the CEO of this company contributed 30,000 to the Obama campaign. A repeat of the Solyndra fiasco. Pay back time?
Pollution from fossil fuels costs a huge amount of money, which fossil fuel producers and users do not pay directly.
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âHidden Costs of Energy: Unpriced Consequences of Energy Production and UseâÂ
National Research Council, 2010
http://books.nap.edu/catalog/12794.html
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This study found the cost from damages due to fossil fuel use to be $120 B for 2005 (in 2007 dollars), a number that does not include climate change and that the studyâs authors considered a âsubstantial underestimate.â
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Until its producers and users pay these costs, instead of socializing them, public investment in cleaner technologies is entirely justified, and even required.
So, every single solar power initiative anywhere in the entire country is "kind of like Solyndra" ?
Good investment? Â Kinda like Solendra?
I almost forgot. Kudos to you, Sam Adams.
Just a few common sense notes. 1) The variety of uses and applications for solar panels, esp flexible panels, will increase their market use over time, esp industrial use. 2) Increased conversion efficiencies (converting more sunlight to electricity) can only come from applied research and engineering/design experience that comes from producing and deploying these panels in the field, in use. Manufacturers PATENT these advances, so you have to get in early to develop and mature the technology and your patent portfolio. 3) Germany and other countries are seeing good success in their programs.  This is still early. There will be false starts and successes, but we (America) CAN NOT AFFORD to not lead in this industry. The potential is too great. Solar energy is clean, essentially limitless, and after equipment purchase, free, and ongoing maintenance is almost nonexistent.
Hah, hah hypocrite Sam Adams. Comparing Houston's oil to Portland's wink wink (we don't have to pay back the federal tax payer) solar power "industry? Yuck - that's Sam's friends right there - except Portland's don't walk around with oil on their hands.Â
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YUCK. And then Sams says a whole lot. else. Of course. Â And we all dance along with him. To whatever it is he says. And pony up our dollars as he discretionarly dictates, too.Â
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And it's ALWAYS in all of our "good", Sam. The fact they don't have to pay any of us back? Come on.Â
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If it's so good - why in the heck is any private CAPITALIST being GIFTED with my money - and I have to allow that to be a NO PAY BACK proposition?Â
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When you are a lame duck mayor - you are also a lame duck HYPOCRITE. Just like Sam Adams.Â
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All of the right wing posts here are ........
Yea what ever we need the Chinese to come here and take the jobs that.... republicans Don't want...
Or wont do...
I mean how sure are we that the sun will actually come up every day.??
Or will the wind ever run down the gorge again???
The one thing that is endless and free here and the republicans just will not allow us to exploit them but want to
allow fracking and off shore drilling....
Oh right it's what you have been told what to say.
Go to the last university you attended and do some research about these things don't just believe what rush said..
Just once think for yourselves... Â
@cptmac11 So you can't make a post without trying to polarize the people even more then your POTUS?
70% paid by taxpayers???? wish the government would artificially prop up MY industry. what a load of BS. just like all the idiots with panels on their roofs... that THEIR NEIGHBORS PAID FOR... I say "you're welcome", every time I go past one of these "holier than thou" houses with solar panels on them.
The fossil fuel industry *is* being propped up -- you pay for its pollution, not them. (They just keep the profit.)
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Why aren't you concerned about paying these costs?
 @arnold Should we call the WHAAAMBULANCE for you?
In other words, taxpayers pay for the production and salaries, however it is a secret how much we took from the tax payers wallet. Oh yeah and we never need to pay it back so our executives can have a bonus.
It's secret because the company is protecting itself from very heavy competition from abroad. The technology is advanced and sensitive and at this early point in the game, these people are keeping the cards close to their chests.
 @Obongo Geddon Yup. But it's not oil. So that's okay. It's SOLAR. So my friends deserve the payola in their back pockets and in their bonuses and in their (someday) bankruptcy papers if they so choose to go broke.Â
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They don't have to pay it back. What's the big deal, people. It's only YOUR money. Just like all of Houston's oil. Ah, that's right isn't it - Sam asks his staff/handlers. I said that "right" didn't I?Â
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Sam..... you hypocrite tax dollar abuser.Â
As much as I like Solar Power (I have a system on my house) for some reason I smell another Solyndra here......
 @shek069 you're welcome... I hope you thank all your neighbors for subsidizing your panels with their tax dollars.
 @arnold  @shek069 And you're welcome for the taxpayer funded mortgage deduction on your home. Â
He's against anything progressive. The Repubs are all addicted to the dinosaur industries, coal and big oil, which are the leading contributors to pollution, runaway global warming, ocean acidification, species collapse (underway now), record heat waves and related human death, drought (underway now), heavy metal pollution and poisoning, pulmonary disease, all underway now. Add to that the political instability and skyrocketing prices for oil and the logic for embracing green energy is obvious. Green energy is virtually limitiless and borderless. But that makes too much sense.
 @arnold Are you against the middle class getting a tax break? Sure seems like it.
@shek069  BTW, Its not "I'm generating" its more like We're generating...... cause you wouldn't be generating jack squat if you had to pay the entire cost for that system all by yourself.Â
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"""power that is put back onto the grid for use elsewhere"""" ...... at 3 to 5 times the cost of conventional power production.
 @kramr  @shek069 That's fine. I just know that my electric bills during the summer have been averaging about $10/month and I'm generating power that is put back onto the grid for use elsewhere.
@shek069 @arnold   I'm against taxpayers funding an extremely expensive and unreliable  source of electricty regardless of what "class' they are.
Tax breaks and loans? Subsidies? And why are we not talking about cost per watt, because it doesn't matter?
Screw you Portland tax payers, nothing you can do about it.
Why is it, the name "Solyndra" just keeps popping up in my mind...
"Tim Harris, refused to discuss specifics about the taxpayer's return on investment â in regards to the cost per watt"
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RED FLAG -- Anyone lender that is loaning money wants to know this - pretty basic in class called: loaning 101...
The neewer cells that are being made are of a different composition then the Crystaline Cells. There is also the newest cells that are super thin but have a higher out put. there are pros and cons to solar. Best to have wind/solar combo for powering a house.
oh might I add, the newer LED solar spotlights can shine 30 feet using a 2.3 volt battery and will shine for 3.5 hours before starting to die, there is a second secret I learned in the 10.00 solar spot light, there is room for a second battery, connect the 2 batteries in series and you will have a light that will remain on for 12 hours..great for emergency lighting...oh and the single LED normal solar lights for the yard, Charge the battery in a charger, they will shine for nearly 2 weeks.on a full charge. The sun just "tops them off"
Also Crystaline cells have better life.
oh those are the new flexible cells.
""""""Mayor Sam Adams tried to allay the fears some people may have about the investment of public funds after the failures of companies like Solyndra and Abound. He said it will be a good investment for taxpayers."""""
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good investment based on what???????
"""""New solar plant in Portland touted as good taxpayer investment"""""
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Oh Paleeze..... solar companies are nothing but a sink hole for tax payer money and the companies shrivel up and go away as soon as the tax payer subsidies dry up.
"What he's saying is that Portland's risk in the venture is the $5 million backing of a state loan to SoloPower. He calls it "a backstop," with the company's equipment as the collateral."
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Portland has millions to spend on a venture capital deal ? Â I am sure this is just what the taxpayers had in mind.
"At the ribbon cutting ceremony Thursday, Mayor Sam Adams tried to allay the fears some people may have about the investment of public funds after the failures of companies like Solyndra and Abound. He said it will be a good investment for taxpayers."
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Sam is really an idiot. He thinks that this solar company will survive when all the others have gone bankrupt.
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Now SolarWorld is in trouble because all the government subsidies are running out.
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It is a common and well traveled road. The solar company opens with lots of public money and big fanfare. The company does a really great job and hires lots of folks. The public subsidies start to run out. The company tries to fly on their own but finally fails. The taxpayers get nothing except more wasted money.
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My prediction is that within 5 years of the subsidies running out this place will be bankrupt.
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Just more wasting of taxpayer money. I am so glad I moved my business out of the US so that I don't have to contribute to this foolishness.
@RalphCramden You're more generous than I am....five years?? It won't take nearly that long.
 @KachinaÂ
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The reason I gave it 5 years was that it increases the chances that I will be correct. It will fail as all the rest of them in the nation have done and it will be soon after the government subsidies run out but some can hang on for a while before throwing in the towel.
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Before they fail management has to grab as much cash as they can like they did at Solyndra.
Just doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome. Isn't that one definition of insanity?
@RalphCramden It won't take 5 years. Within 18 months of subsidies drying up they will be closing their doors and the taxpayers will have a $240,000,000 white elephant.
As well as having a thriving economy as well as health coverage for all of it's citizens,Germany has had quite a success with solar energy.I think the U.S should use germany as a model for solar energy.I'll have to check out what the weather is like there.I can't imagine it being that different from the Pacific Northwest. http://jonathanturley.org/2012/05/28/germany-hits-record-in-solar-power-with-50-of-energy-during-mid-day-hours/
 @noneofyourbizzness Maybe its time we stopped trying to emulate European countries, you think?
 @noneofyourbizznessÂ
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I have had solar power for decades and can tell you that it costs about 96 cents per KWH. That compares with hydro at about 2 cents per KWH.
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Plus the panels go bad over time. The deterioration looks like this.
10 years = 90% of rated output
20 years = 80% of rated output
30 years = 70% of rated output
40 years = 50% of rated output
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If the panels get hot, over 120 degrees, they only put out 50% of their rating. If the panels are over 40 years old and hot they will only put out 20% of their rating.
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So why do I keep getting more panels? Because the tax payers pay me lots of money to get panels. With all the government subsidies, rebates, tax credits I can get the price down to 12 cents per KWH versus the power companies 9.6 cents per KWH.
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With the Chinese making most of the solar panels in the world right now they have got the price down to where I can get a new panel for $1.10 per watt loaded on my truck.
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Solar electric is voodoo science and is not feasible on a massive scale. Once the government subsides run out it will repeat what happened when Carter did the same thing in 1979. After his tax breaks ran out the whole industry folded. I got my first panels during that time and now my 22 watt (big for the time) are putting out 2.6 watts.
@RalphCramden Wow,you don't have a problem with taking hard working tax payers dollars? You could be considered a moocher no? Kind of reminds me of the red states voting for Romney even though it's a fact that red stated recieve the most "free handouts" Personally if I spent a lot of time decrying people who are taking handouts,I would have a problem doing the same.For the record,never in my life have had to get financial help from the government.I'm actually a hard working liberal.
 @noneofyourbizznessÂ
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There was a time when I would not take any government handouts. That time has come and gone. Everyone else is grabbing what they can and I will be no different.
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I have paid a lot of taxes over the decades and never did get much back from it. Now I want to get all the services that I have paid for in the past.
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Plus as an added benefit I can drive the government into insolvency and help cause a financial collapse. Once that happens we can start rebuilding and do it right, at least for a few generations till the liberals once again take over and spend more than we take in.
 @noneofyourbizzness Yeah, about that: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/solar-subsidy-sinkhole-re-evaluating-germany-s-blind-faith-in-the-sun-a-809439.html
 @Altazi  @noneofyourbizznessÂ
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Exactly right. It is nothing but hype that doesn't pan out once the government money runs out.
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Spain did the same thing. Spent billions on alternative energy and now they are deep in debt and have very expensive energy bills.
 @kramr   @AltaziÂ
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They have almost totally abandoned the solar industry simply because they cannot afford to subsidize it any longer. They are broke.
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Solar is a very, very expensive energy and should only be reserved for situations where this is no other option for energy.
@RalphCramden @Altazi @noneofyourbizzness  Spain did a study and found  out that for every one "green" job created, two jobs from conventional energy were lost!!  great way to move an economy forward.....NOT!
The tax payers are going to take it in the butt again over yet another losing company racks in millions of dollars for the owners. 450 and new jobs in the area in three years right the company will be out of business inside of 9 months. Whoever thinks these give aways up should be hung up by their buster browns.Â
$240,000,000 for 450 jobs equals $533,333 per job created assuming, and it's a big assumption, that the 450 jobs materialize. Assuming the average salary of the purported 450 workers is $51,000 per year and assuming the worker itemizes deductions and pays tax on $41,000 per year at 9% state and 15% federal, that equates to $9,840 paid in income taxes. At that rate it will take more than 53 years for each job to pay for itself.Â
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It never pays for government to buy jobs; especially in the solar industry which has gone south.
The problem with solar is the cost. Utilities are required to purchase it at several times the cost of generating it themselves, such as letting hydro plants run unloaded while paying $10/MW for solar. People don't really think solar cuts down on fossil fuel generation, do they? It's hydro that can load and unload rapidly to compensate for unreliable generation such as wind and solar.