'There are ominous signals coming from the ecosystem'

SEATTLE (AP) — Rising acidity levels in the oceans pose a serious threat to shellfish and other marine life, and tackling that problem in Washington state will require reducing carbon dioxide emissions, keeping polluted runoff out of marine waters, and increasing monitoring at hatcheries, a group of experts recommended Tuesday.
The panel of scientists and policy experts convened by Gov. Chris Gregoire recommended dozens of actions to combat changes to ocean chemistry detected several years ago when oyster larvae in Pacific Northwest hatcheries began dying in large numbers.
"There are ominous signals coming from the ecosystem on this issue, as ominous as anything coming from climate change," said Jay Manning, former state ecology director who headed the panel with former Environmental Protection Agency administrator Bill Ruckelshaus.
Gregoire, who formed the group as part of a state and federal initiative to help protect the state's $270 million shellfish industry, scheduled a news conference Tuesday to announce her new steps.
"This report really draws attention to a problem that exists internationally but that has really hit hard right here in the state of Washington," said Jane Lubchenco, administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Lubchenco was a professor at Oregon State University prior to be tapped by Obama to run NOAA.
The problem known as acidification is caused when oceans absorb human-generated carbon dioxide, mostly from the atmosphere and also from nutrient runoff and other sources.
Studies have shown that corrosive water has a dramatic effect on oysters, clams, and corals, and could potentially affect the broader marine food web.
Washington state is the nation's top producer of farmed shellfish. The problem affects the industry along with consumers and anyone who has ever dug up razor clams or picked oysters on the coast, Manning said.
The panel, the first of its kind for a state, recommended 42 wide-ranging actions for consideration by the governor, who leaves office in January. It cited 18 key priorities, including developing a strategy to reduce carbon dioxide emissions and finding innovative techniques such as seaweed farming to capture and remove carbon.
Some actions would take several years, while others might take much longer. Manning said the group didn't tally a total cost because many of the actions can be scaled, while others might not even be implemented depending on what further research shows.
Ocean acidification likely affects marine organisms to varying degrees, but research has shown those using the mineral calcium carbonate to make shells, skeletons or other body parts are more sensitive to changing sea chemistry. The organisms include oysters, clams, scallops, mussels and coral.
In February, scientists in Oregon found evidence that higher levels of carbon dioxide in the Pacific Ocean were responsible for the failure of oyster larvae to survive in 2005 at Whiskey Creek Shellfish Hatchery on Netarts Bay.
The panel said Washington's waters are particularly vulnerable to ocean acidification because seasonal ocean upwelling brings water rich in carbon dioxide — and more acidic — up from the deep ocean toward the continental shelf.
"We're still struggling with what we know and what we don't know about the biological impacts. We do know a whole lot about what happens to oyster larvae," said Richard Feely, an oceanographer at NOAA's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Seattle and a panel member.
Scientists are learning that other organisms such as pteropods — tiny free-swimming snails that are a primary food source for salmon — are already being affected by acidification, Feely said.
More recent work has found that acidifying oceans can affect behavioral responses of some organisms, such as whether a fish will go toward or avoid a predator, he said.
"We now need to have a better understanding of how the changes are taking place at the very bases of the food chain and how those changes permeate through the food chain up to fish and birds and mammals," Feely said.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press
Maybe somebody should inform the geo-engineering companies that spray aluminum, barium, and other crap into the other atmosphere all over the globe.
 @Jamie Which ones are those?
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 @HarryJuku HAHA, that's hilarious! I mean, hahahahahhahaha.. Oceans dying, Earth warming, floods and storms on the rise, but... but... Al Gore jokes! HAHAHAHA
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Fool me once shame on me Fool me twice, Shame on you. What I want to know is how is the thermalhaline system doing, what is it doing and has it been disrupted any or if it is showing sings of disruption.
and this is what I am speaking of.
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http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=lbf&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1167&bih=763&tbm=isch&tbnid=s0AKYGd3XkOBFM:&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation&docid=rg_l1RzH3heICM&imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Thermohaline_Circulation_2.png/400px-Thermohaline_Circulation_2.png&w=400&h=251&ei=CUu4UOrwKsazigLI-4DYAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=208&vpy=135&dur=407&hovh=178&hovw=284&tx=156&ty=103&sig=109395795298240702769&page=1&tbnh=139&tbnw=222&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:90
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When this has been effected an changed or altered then we will have good reason to worry.
Also, I do know for certain that certain glaciers are no more and some are receding at a exceedingly fast rate.
It doesn't take a scientist to compare before and after pictures.
We very well maybe witnessing that tipping point, the point of no return.
Maybe it is time that we build our own power grids, because the ones were dependent on right now will fail.
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Please not the disclaimer:I am not advocating that I know everything nor am I predicting future storms that will hit the pacific NW with ravaging winds and rain, I can not be held responsible for any occurrences due to loss of power, fuel, rationing, and sever storms that may hit.
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I am just stating my opinion and in no way am I Nor will I be responsible for your home being flooded, blown down, or your car needing fuel, I have no special powers of prediction, please fly and drive as you normally do. what happens will happen. The earth is control we humans are not, it will do what it has done for millions of years, there is nothing new under the sun. The earth has cycles it goes through, either we Humans will grow up and understand this, or we can bicker about global this or that.
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I am all for going green, it maybe the only choice we have as the grid begins to fail.
Notation: I am not advocating the foreseeable future present or other wise about the collapse of our "Grid".
the collapsing of our grid will occur when nature begins hurling storms, super storms, Weather Bombs, and other Phenomena including but not limited to Volcanoes erupting.
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Does this all sound insane?
Well it should because this is what I think of all this.
I do believe though on a more serious note that we are at the point of no return. On the more serious side I do believe that the climate is changing. On the serious side, I do know that our Gird is aging and deteriorating and has weaknesses and I do believe a sever storm system could result in a great deal ranging from loss of power to fuel rationing programs being implemented here in the NW. I do believe that we are 1 quake away from disaster.
My point is what good does it do us to worry? we can adapt. On the positive side there could be new discoveries of new species , like the spiders in the one cave that seemed to be in a class of there own, or maybe a new breed of wolf, cougar or something along those lines. Maybe we our selves will bet different species of animals. and insect life.
We will lose species possibly like the Polar Bear, certain owls, and other things while there could be new and exciting discoveries of new birds or something. Why do we fear this change? Lets embrace it. Heck..we live on earth and man has never witnessed anything like this.. I am not afraid. ok so what California gets new beach front property, the new weight could cause some mountains to erupt. An Oregon just may get a new island.
So why this big fear thing? Because it makes money.
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 @lee986321 Your first sentence is hilariously wrong. The quote is: "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Get it now?? No?  Well, maybe you're still trying to figure out why you're a fool and how much shame to feel. Keep working on that.
@lee986321 "Does this all sound insane? Well it should because this is what I think of all this" It's good to see that you finally realize what the rest of us figured out about you quite some time ago.
WOLF!
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/fool me once...
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
Actually, I think this is going to be far more serious than the weather disruptions, storms, and rising sea levels. Acidification will be the thing that challenges our survival. Low pH from CO2 saturation in the oceans will kill off plankton and other life forms at the bottom of the food chain, after it's done killing off coral and shellfish. It's those plankton that produce most of the oxygen we breathe. We are being killed by people who put crap into the air and water, as though it was their private property and not a public asset. They pay nothing to acidify oceans, put soot and carbon and mercury into the air, and dump dangerous chemicals into streams and the ocean. You should be able to use air and water as you need, provided you return it to the earth in the same state you found it. Otherwise, you're stealing from the public.
Underground volcanoes could also put co2 into the water.
your gonna need about 10,000 more scientists to map the ocean the size of the united states.
 @Rey Arteb They do, but, actual scientists--unlike professional critics and talk radio people--are able to tell the difference in isotopes between volcanic emissions, animal emissions, forest fire, and fossil fuels, etc. They're able to do this because instead of standing around with their thumbs up their butt listening to Rush Limbaugh, they've studied 800,000-year-old glacier core samples (but..but...the earth is only 5,000 years old) and learned to read them as a a forester can read rings on a tree.
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Volcanoes have always been around. That's a constant. A moronically f-----g obvious one to anybody who has their head jammed in basic chemistry and geology books instead of agreeing with everything the angry white man on the radio says on their way home from work every night. We're not in a period of heightened volcanic activity so you might as well blame it on asteroids.
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The fact is, the planet is warming. Solar, volcanic, manmade, freakin' MAGIC, WTFever. It's getting warmer. While the Republicans (I used to be one) were denying global warming and making fun of or trying to destroy the reputations of everybody who tried to tell people it was, scientists kept on plugging. And now the glaciers worldwide are melting and even the Republican candidate admits that the climate is changing, not A SINGLE ONE OF THESE STUPID JACK-WAGONS WILL ADMIT THAT THEY WERE DEAD-ASS WRONG BEFORE, AND THERE'S NO REASON TO GIVE THEM ANY CREDIBILITY NOW. Screw Al Gore.
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 @Rey Arteb ..and speaking of CO2, water, underground volcanoes -- people may be interested to learn about Lake Nyos in present day Cameroon.  It shows how temp/depth profiles 'contain' or impound concentrations of gases such as CO2 in poisonous amounts in their depths.
It's a 'classic' example used in a lot of earth science texts:Â http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos
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Oh yeah, it's more than just oceans, don't forget about lakes too!
 @ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsPhredE  @Rey Arteb What an awesome read dude, thanks.
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So weird and scary!
So this is likely as true as "global warming" climategate that Lord Monckton showed al gore and abama and the liar on the issue what a fraud scam it really is. Tell us global warming fraudsters, name ONE of the 118 "carbon footprint"  taxes put on us . Go ahead I'll wait. Cant? LOL LOL LOL, But mumble it is true somehow. OK. So how boust showing any one of the TAXES made one difference in any capacity. Go ahead I'll wait. Cant? OK. HUH......
 @Zechariah Are you sober?
@Zechariah There must be a point there somewhere, but I believe you are challenging us to provide an example of government actually improving the environment. OK. Here goes. In the northeast, there was a serious problem with acid rain killing forests, polluting waterways, and eating away buildings. So (drum roll here) REPUBLICANS put together a cap and trade tax plan that actually solved the problem. Oh, and the Cuyahoga river no longer catches fire spontaneously, and there are fish again in Lake Erie.
@Mechanic Round two here we go! No mechanic, I dont post things where ppl can deduce any points. Its like a biblical parable where the masses couldnt pick out the concepts because they are all aten up with stupid, so I cant help you on anything. sorry. If you missed it that bad then you missed it period. Gilligans island may be on soon for ya so there I helped some anyway.
@Zechariah "they are all aten up with stupid" Yeah right. I almost always let spelling and grammar issues slide, I can usually figure out what people are trying to say. For instance, I know that "ppl" is your way of saying "people", but you lost me on "aten"
@Zechariah As @RatchetRanger said in another thread: âSay what? Did you fall on your head or something?â
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@Zechariah Interesting, I didn't call you names, at all. However, it seems to be something you are prone to doing. I don't think anyone will have any trouble pinpointing the person with the 12 year old mentality. Try this next time: re-read your post before you click "Post comment". That will give you time to realize that the point you are trying to make isn't being properly conveyed.
Never trust these eco folks. While they may be right they do have an agenda and therefore cannot be trusted to tell us the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help them "whatever" (since most don't believe in any kind of superior being except themselves).
 @RalphCramden "eco folks" Between the eco-folks and the geo-engineering (chen trail) folks and the mind-control folks everybody is telling me about, I kinda wish people who don't know WTF they're talking about would stop talking about the "folks."
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"While they may be right."  FFS, isn't that enough?!   You don't suppose the right-wing media and all kinds of pundits and authors make a whole crap-ton of money selling books that cherry-pick a small group of scientists and disregard and international minority, not to mention empirical freakin' evidence?
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I have flown over the Yukon and inner Alaska in a Cessna 172 and seen where glaciers have retreated from where they were charted just a few years ago. I've seen it with my own eyes. Do I have an agenda, Ralph?
@RalphCramden Fortunately, the Koch brothers and coal mine barons don't have an agenda, so you can believe whatever they say. Ha ha.
 @john Â
The Koch Brothers and coal mine barons have an easy agenda and are very out front about it.
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Make money.
 @RalphCramdenGrad students trying to impress their professors with a PhD thesis.
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http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/11/02/un-hired-grad-students-to-author-major-climate-reports/
 @TimBurr  @RalphCramden I've flown over the Yukon myself and witnessed with my own eyes how the glaciers have receded from their charted positions just a few years ago.
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You've read aFox News article. Impressive, Tim. Impressive.
 @TimBurrÂ
Education means nothing if they can't think independently. I teach a lot of PhD's and I am not impressed. Most that I encounter lack critical thinking skills.
 @RalphCramden Nothing like 50-60-100 years ago.
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Could you have passed the 8th grade in 1895?
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http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp
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@TimBurr I was going to make a comment about your using a year old FOX news story as a source, but then I just couldnât get past the fact that they have a âScienceâ section on their site. They even have a subsection on âDinosaurs"! Now thatâs rich.
 @TimBurr  @JTesla If Fox reports it, there's a possibility that it didn't actually happen. I don't have a news agenda. I'm a conservative. I have a degree in science journalism. Fox News is a right-wing organ. This is obvious. We all know this. Resistance to climate change theory is one of the legs the Republican party, which serves the right wing, stands on.
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Even Romney believes in climate change.
 @JTesla  @TimBurr So grad students weren't influencing UN decisions because Fox reports it? I see. Go back to lala land please.
@RalphCramden The knuckledraggers (i.e., Republicans) are already out in force on this one. They just don't understand how they could POSSIBLY have lost the election, and the same willful blind ignorance operates here. Everything is right in front of us, yet folks like Ralphie here just think things aren't clear, so we shouldn't do anything. If we had listened to folks like that, Cleveland's Cuyahoga River would still be on fire. (Yeah, that's right. The river was so full of chemicals the river itself caught fire.)
We can't be 100% sure what's causing it, so let's do absolutely nothing and then act surprised when everything dies. That's the most practical approach. Of course if you're really concerned you could just pray for things to get better, which is the second best thing to doing nothing at all.
 @badcat It worked on Easter Island. Jeeeeeez!
the human parasite is destoying its own planet. Mother nature will win in the end
 @LostSoulÂ
We are part of mother nature.
@RalphCramden once we are turned back into dirt
 @LostSoul Â
So once a life form is dead it is part of mother nature? I will need more ammo. There are a lot of rabbits at my vacation home.
@RalphCramden Stop making sense, nobody's buying it. Without some kind of moderation, even good intentions can have ill effects. Don't tell the hyperlibs that, though. They'll just point at the hypercons and say, "They're wrong, so we must be right!"
 @JGalt  @RalphCramden What ill effects are there to conserving energy?
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I mean, besides lower dividends, fewer oil spills, an oil-based region whose princes ride around in gold-fixtured private jumbo jets, and occasionally torture people when it pleases them.
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China is turning carbon-scrubbing into an industry (instead of blowing exhaust OUT of the stacks, suck some of the carbon back in) because even those crooked commie bastards have a better concept of what's at stake, and what money there is to be made of it, than the oil-addicts. Don't worry. THEY can do it.
More "CO2 is a pollutant" nonsense. Everybody, just stop breathing, mmmkay. Make the eco-terrorists super happy.
More BS global warming,carbon taxes, agenda 21 propoganda....
@FrankCastle keep sleeping where you crap....
@LostSoul you need to take your own advice and BTW, Grow up and try to act like you are old enought to post on this blog, OK. Try to have a nice day and not be so vile in your little mind too. Perhaps stop watching the internet might help you have a clean mind.
 @Zechariah  @LostSoul I flew an airplane up the Yukon and saw with my own eyes where glaciers used to be that have receded.
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Perhaps stop watching the internet yourself. You and Frank are letting other people think for your instead of going out and seeing for yourself. It's there, all around the world and right up there on Mount Hood. So when people say the planet isn't warming, Mt Hood says they're idiots who are so thick-headed they can't acknowledge what's right before their eyes because the guy on the internet or the radio tells them not to.
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You, perhaps, are one of those people. I am not. I am just a pilot, who has seen it when my own eyes regardless of whether Frank thinks I'm some sort of "eco-terrorist." What ignorant and juvenile nonsense.
 "and also from nutrient runoff and other sources." So it could be from natural sources, how can they tell the difference? "The panel said Washington's waters are particularly vulnerable to ocean acidification because seasonal ocean upwelling brings water rich in carbon dioxide â and more acidic â up from the deep ocean toward the continental shelf." Sounds like a natural phenomenon to me.
 @randomdude Indeed. And, in the last paragraph of the story, another scientist (oceanographer) interviewed said:Â
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'We now need to have a better understanding of how the changes are taking place at the very bases of the food chain and how those changes permeate through the food chain up to fish and birds and mammals," Feely said'
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Paraphrased, translated and simplified means 'we still don't know all the aspects of the problem'.
 @ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsPhredE  @randomdudeÂ
you are paraphrasing incorrectly.
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paraphrased, translated, and simplified, he means 'we still need to know what's going to happen to the food chain once the base level organisms are dead'.
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scientists may not know all the answers yet, but would you want to risk it by ignoring it and doing nothing until the waters are complete dead zones?
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 @musiclover What a thumb-sucker. The solution is to recognize that scientists were right when they said the climate was changing and they're right when they say fossil fuels are the primary problem. Those scientists have robots on Mars and unless their rival scientists have robots, they aren't worth two cat s--ts in a fishbowl as far as I'm concerned.The Pentagon and the CIA, the Army and the Marine Corps recognize climate change as a significant threat to global security. Only the politicos, the talk radio types and the people have books to sell you have been left behind.
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Doing nothing is also the wrong thing to do, which is scientifically provable and empirically viewable to people who go out and look for it.
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The solution is to find an alternative the way the Wright Brothers did while the dumb lowly sucks on the ground were flogging their mules and wishing they could fly. But America has somehow lost the courage and the genius to do such a thing. Well, at least some have. Not my team. My team has robots on Mars.
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Doing anything at this stage of knowledge is almost guarenteed to be the WRONG thing to do! That's been proven too many times in the past!