We weren’t asleep, pilot says
SALEM, Ore. – One of the pilots who flew a Northwest Airlines jet 150 miles past the Minneapolis Airport said neither he nor the other pilot fell asleep.
Richard Cole lives in Salem with his wife and two daughters. He spoke to KATU while pulling his luggage out of his car after returning home. He said he can’t talk about the incident but, “I’ll tell you this, neither of us was asleep.”
Later he said that “I feel terrible. No one was fighting; there was no argument; there was no disharmony; no one was sleeping. We were just distracted."
Cole would not say what did happen, but authorities have said the crew told them they were distracted during a heated discussion.
Cole was co-piloting Northwest Flight 188 with the pilot, Timothy Cheney of Gig Harbor, Wash., from San Diego to Minneapolis Wednesday night when the plane overshot its destination by 150 miles and landed safely at the Minneapolis Airport an hour and 14 minutes late.
A haggard-looking Cole, interviewed by an Associated Press reporter at the front door of his home, said he could not discuss why it took so long for him and the other pilot to respond to radio calls.
"But I can tell you that airplanes lose contact with the ground people all the time. Sometimes they get together right away; sometimes it takes awhile before one or the other notices that they are not in contact," he said.
Cole said that there was "nothing serious" going on in the cockpit that would have posed a safety threat to the passengers on the plane.
"Obviously, people are disturbed. I feel bad for them and what happened," he said of the passengers.
In the interview, Cole also said he didn't know his fellow pilot well.
"I'm not real close with him; I don't know his background. But he's a very nice guy. Right now, both of us are under a lot of stress."
A pilot for 30 years, Cole said he served as an Air Force captain before going into commercial flying. He said he's been with Northwest for 12 years.
Cole said the entire episode has been a "nightmare" that he worries could spell an end to his career as an airline pilot.
"I shouldn't talk to you anymore," he said. "I may lose my job over this."
The National Transportation Safety Board said “the crew stated they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness.”
But aviation experts doubt that explanation.
“This bears all the earmarks of a crew that’s gone to sleep,” said John Nance, ABC News’ aviation consultant.
“We’re in this heated discussion for better than 300 miles, and that’s pretty extraordinary,” said William Voss of the Flight Safety Foundation.
Minneapolis air traffic controllers tried to contact the pilots by radio, data message, and even cell phone, but apparently it was a flight attendant who finally got the pilot’s attention, reaching them in the cockpit by intercom.
Some passengers aboard the flight were upset and puzzled.
“I can’t believe that,” said one. “It seems impossible. How that can happen.”
A couple of Cole’s neighbors spoke highly of him. They said he’s a great family man and one woman said “I’d fly with Richard anytime.” She said she has confidence in his intelligence and ability.
Investigators don't know whether the pilots may have fallen asleep, but National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Keith Holloway said Friday that fatigue and cockpit distraction will be looked into.
The plane's flight recorders were brought to Washington Friday, but the cockpit voice recorder is an older model that contains only the last 30 minutes of conversation. That makes the investigation more difficult since that time would be taken up by the flight back to Minneapolis - the intended destination - and the landing there Wednesday night.
Flight 188's recorders were delivered to the NTSB's Washington office. The pilots, both temporarily suspended, are to be interviewed by investigators next week. The airline, acquired last year by Delta Air Lines, is also investigating.
The crew told authorities they were distracted during a heated discussion over airline policy, the NTSB said.
Wednesday night, the airliner with more than 140 passengers aboard zoomed past Minneapolis at 37,000 feet at what was supposed to be the end of a flight from San Diego. Worried about who was actually at the controls, officials asked the crew to prove who they were by executing turns after they finally were contacted.
On the ground, police and FBI agents prepared for the worst, and the Air National Guard put fighter jets on alert at two locations as the drama unfolded.
Pilots from two other planes in the vicinity were finally able to reach the pilots using a different radio frequency, a controllers union spokesman said. A flight attendant in the cabin also was able to contact them by intercom, said a source close to the investigation who wasn't authorized to talk publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.
By that time, the Airbus A320 was over Eau Claire, Wis., and the pilots had been out of communication with air traffic controllers for over an hour. They turned back and landed safely in Minneapolis, the plane's scheduled destination.
The plane passed over Minneapolis at 37,000 feet just before 8 p.m. local time. Contact with controllers wasn't established until 14 minutes later, NTSB said.
Air traffic controllers in Denver had been in contact with the pilots as they flew over the Rockies, FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said. But as the plane got closer to Minneapolis, she said, "the Denver center tried to contact the flight but couldn't get anyone."
Denver controllers notified their counterparts in Minneapolis, who also tried to reach the crew without success, Brown said.
Officials suspect Flight 188's radio might still have been tuned to a frequency used by Denver controllers even though the plane had flown beyond their reach, said Doug Church, a spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Union. Controllers worked throughout the incident with the pilots of other planes, asking them to try to raise Flight 188 using the Denver frequency, he said
That was unsuccessful until two pilots working with Minneapolis controllers finally got through just before the plane turned around, Church said. Minneapolis controllers don't have the capability of using the Denver frequency, but pilots do, he said.
After re-establishing contact with the plane, controllers asked the pilot in charge to execute a series of turns to show he was in control of the aircraft, Church said.
"Controllers have a heightened sense of vigilance when we're not able to talk to an aircraft. That's the reality post-9/11," he said.
Passenger Lonnie Heidtke said he didn't notice anything unusual before the landing except that the plane was late.
The flight attendants "did say there was a delay and we'd have to orbit or something to that effect before we got back. They really didn't say we overflew Minneapolis. ... They implied it was just a business-as-usual delay," said Heidtke, a consultant with a supercomputer consulting company based in Bloomington, Minn.
Once on the ground, the plane was met by police and FBI agents. Passengers retrieving their luggage from overhead bins were asked by flight attendants sit down, Heidtke said. An airport police officer and a couple other people came on board and stood at the cockpit door, talking to the pilots, he said.
"I did jokingly call my wife and say, 'This is the first time I've seen the police meet the plane. Maybe they're going to arrest the pilots for being so late.' Maybe I was right," Heidtke said.
The pilots' explanation that they were distracted by shop talk "just doesn't make any sense," said Bill Voss, president of the Flight Safety Foundation in Alexandria, Va. "The pilots are saying they were involved in a heated conversation. Well, that was a very long conversation."
The FAA is updating rules governing how many hours commercial pilots may fly and remain on duty. The NTSB also cautioned government agencies this week about the risks of sleep apnea contributing to transportation accidents.
In January 2008, two pilots for go! airlines fell asleep for at least 18 minutes during a mid-morning flight from Honolulu to Hilo, Hawaii. The plane passed its destination and was heading out over open ocean before controllers raised the pilots. The captain was later diagnosed with sleep apnea.
On the Net:
FlightAware.com tracking of Northwest Flight 188
Richard Cole lives in Salem with his wife and two daughters. He spoke to KATU while pulling his luggage out of his car after returning home. He said he can’t talk about the incident but, “I’ll tell you this, neither of us was asleep.”
Later he said that “I feel terrible. No one was fighting; there was no argument; there was no disharmony; no one was sleeping. We were just distracted."
Cole would not say what did happen, but authorities have said the crew told them they were distracted during a heated discussion.
Cole was co-piloting Northwest Flight 188 with the pilot, Timothy Cheney of Gig Harbor, Wash., from San Diego to Minneapolis Wednesday night when the plane overshot its destination by 150 miles and landed safely at the Minneapolis Airport an hour and 14 minutes late.
A haggard-looking Cole, interviewed by an Associated Press reporter at the front door of his home, said he could not discuss why it took so long for him and the other pilot to respond to radio calls.
"But I can tell you that airplanes lose contact with the ground people all the time. Sometimes they get together right away; sometimes it takes awhile before one or the other notices that they are not in contact," he said.
Cole said that there was "nothing serious" going on in the cockpit that would have posed a safety threat to the passengers on the plane.
"Obviously, people are disturbed. I feel bad for them and what happened," he said of the passengers.
In the interview, Cole also said he didn't know his fellow pilot well.
"I'm not real close with him; I don't know his background. But he's a very nice guy. Right now, both of us are under a lot of stress."
A pilot for 30 years, Cole said he served as an Air Force captain before going into commercial flying. He said he's been with Northwest for 12 years.
Cole said the entire episode has been a "nightmare" that he worries could spell an end to his career as an airline pilot.
"I shouldn't talk to you anymore," he said. "I may lose my job over this."
The National Transportation Safety Board said “the crew stated they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness.”
But aviation experts doubt that explanation.
“This bears all the earmarks of a crew that’s gone to sleep,” said John Nance, ABC News’ aviation consultant.
“We’re in this heated discussion for better than 300 miles, and that’s pretty extraordinary,” said William Voss of the Flight Safety Foundation.
Minneapolis air traffic controllers tried to contact the pilots by radio, data message, and even cell phone, but apparently it was a flight attendant who finally got the pilot’s attention, reaching them in the cockpit by intercom.
Some passengers aboard the flight were upset and puzzled.
“I can’t believe that,” said one. “It seems impossible. How that can happen.”
A couple of Cole’s neighbors spoke highly of him. They said he’s a great family man and one woman said “I’d fly with Richard anytime.” She said she has confidence in his intelligence and ability.
Investigators don't know whether the pilots may have fallen asleep, but National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Keith Holloway said Friday that fatigue and cockpit distraction will be looked into.
The plane's flight recorders were brought to Washington Friday, but the cockpit voice recorder is an older model that contains only the last 30 minutes of conversation. That makes the investigation more difficult since that time would be taken up by the flight back to Minneapolis - the intended destination - and the landing there Wednesday night.
Flight 188's recorders were delivered to the NTSB's Washington office. The pilots, both temporarily suspended, are to be interviewed by investigators next week. The airline, acquired last year by Delta Air Lines, is also investigating.
The crew told authorities they were distracted during a heated discussion over airline policy, the NTSB said.
Wednesday night, the airliner with more than 140 passengers aboard zoomed past Minneapolis at 37,000 feet at what was supposed to be the end of a flight from San Diego. Worried about who was actually at the controls, officials asked the crew to prove who they were by executing turns after they finally were contacted.
On the ground, police and FBI agents prepared for the worst, and the Air National Guard put fighter jets on alert at two locations as the drama unfolded.
Pilots from two other planes in the vicinity were finally able to reach the pilots using a different radio frequency, a controllers union spokesman said. A flight attendant in the cabin also was able to contact them by intercom, said a source close to the investigation who wasn't authorized to talk publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.
By that time, the Airbus A320 was over Eau Claire, Wis., and the pilots had been out of communication with air traffic controllers for over an hour. They turned back and landed safely in Minneapolis, the plane's scheduled destination.
The plane passed over Minneapolis at 37,000 feet just before 8 p.m. local time. Contact with controllers wasn't established until 14 minutes later, NTSB said.
Air traffic controllers in Denver had been in contact with the pilots as they flew over the Rockies, FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said. But as the plane got closer to Minneapolis, she said, "the Denver center tried to contact the flight but couldn't get anyone."
Denver controllers notified their counterparts in Minneapolis, who also tried to reach the crew without success, Brown said.
Officials suspect Flight 188's radio might still have been tuned to a frequency used by Denver controllers even though the plane had flown beyond their reach, said Doug Church, a spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Union. Controllers worked throughout the incident with the pilots of other planes, asking them to try to raise Flight 188 using the Denver frequency, he said
That was unsuccessful until two pilots working with Minneapolis controllers finally got through just before the plane turned around, Church said. Minneapolis controllers don't have the capability of using the Denver frequency, but pilots do, he said.
After re-establishing contact with the plane, controllers asked the pilot in charge to execute a series of turns to show he was in control of the aircraft, Church said.
"Controllers have a heightened sense of vigilance when we're not able to talk to an aircraft. That's the reality post-9/11," he said.
Passenger Lonnie Heidtke said he didn't notice anything unusual before the landing except that the plane was late.
The flight attendants "did say there was a delay and we'd have to orbit or something to that effect before we got back. They really didn't say we overflew Minneapolis. ... They implied it was just a business-as-usual delay," said Heidtke, a consultant with a supercomputer consulting company based in Bloomington, Minn.
Once on the ground, the plane was met by police and FBI agents. Passengers retrieving their luggage from overhead bins were asked by flight attendants sit down, Heidtke said. An airport police officer and a couple other people came on board and stood at the cockpit door, talking to the pilots, he said.
"I did jokingly call my wife and say, 'This is the first time I've seen the police meet the plane. Maybe they're going to arrest the pilots for being so late.' Maybe I was right," Heidtke said.
The pilots' explanation that they were distracted by shop talk "just doesn't make any sense," said Bill Voss, president of the Flight Safety Foundation in Alexandria, Va. "The pilots are saying they were involved in a heated conversation. Well, that was a very long conversation."
The FAA is updating rules governing how many hours commercial pilots may fly and remain on duty. The NTSB also cautioned government agencies this week about the risks of sleep apnea contributing to transportation accidents.
In January 2008, two pilots for go! airlines fell asleep for at least 18 minutes during a mid-morning flight from Honolulu to Hilo, Hawaii. The plane passed its destination and was heading out over open ocean before controllers raised the pilots. The captain was later diagnosed with sleep apnea.
On the Net:
FlightAware.com tracking of Northwest Flight 188