Activists bring gun control discussion to gun show
PORTLAND, Ore. – Gun enthusiasts this weekend flocked to a gun show at the Portland Expo Center, and outside they found a small group of people holding a vigil in the hopes of changing a few opinions about gun ownership.
“If you want to hunt, that’s fine, get a hunting license, get a permit, get trained. But I challenge anyone to walk in there and show me what the purpose of 90 percent of that crap is. That’s just designed to kill people,” said Mike Rosen, who organized the vigil.
During similar instances in the past, we’ve seen things get heated, but on Sunday people seemed to be in a solemn mood. Folks on both sides made their points strongly but quietly about where our country should go with guns and gun control.
Rosen and about a dozen friends posted pictures of the people killed during the two shootings last week and read accounts of the victims’ lives.
“If people walk by and pause and think about it for a minute, it’s fine with me,” Rosen said.
Not many of the gun show customers stopped to speak with the group, but the people who spoke with reporters generally thought that increased gun control would probably only affect law-abiding gun owners.
Still, many gun owners thought it might be a good idea to limit high-capacity ammunition magazines.
“People are always going to have guns, people are always going to have high-capacity clips. Even if you outlaw them, they can go out on the black market anywhere, so is it going to stop anything? Probably not. Is it going to slow anything down? It might,” said gun owner Rob Barrett.
“Organizations who are anti-gun tent to sensationalize it to promote their agenda and they don’t really have the facts,” said gun owner Ben Strand.
State Senator Ginny Burdick says she plans to introduce legislation to ban the high-capacity magazines.
“What you really have to ask yourself is do 50 round clips really have a place in a civilized society? Hunters are only allowed to use five shots,” Burdick said on KATU’s political show “Your Voice, Your Vote.” “There’s just no legitimate use for these things.”
Many of the gun owners we spoke too also said it would be difficult to cut the number of guns in this country and that people need to protect themselves from armed criminals.
Hhmm. 25 Iraqis killed in random bombings on December 17th. Bombs. Oh, but that's NOT America!Â
Â
Does anyone remember that James Holmes had an apartment filled with chemicals that (1) no one ever gave us further details about, and (2) it took a bomb squad to remove.Â
WHY THE HELL DO WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE EVERYONE THINKS THAT THEY NEED TO BE ARMED???? O MY GUN IS BIGGER THAN YOURS AND "CRIMINALS" ARE EVERYWHERE BUT IT'S NOT CRIMINALS SHOOTING BABIES WHILE THEY ARE LEARNING IN SCHOOL. IT'S PEOPLE WHO LEGALLY CAN BUY WEAPONS MEANT FOR WAR... I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FEEL ABOUT ALL THIS... I'VE BEEN SICK TO MY STOMACH SINCE FRIDAY. MY 2ND GRADER TELLS ME "MOM IT'S OK MY TEACHER SHOWED US WHERE WE CAN HIDE IF BAD GUYS COME IN OUR SCHOOL." IT BOTHERS ME THAT MY SON IS PREPARED FOR SOMEONE TO BE ARMED. SOMEONE GIVE ME A GOOD REASON OF WHY WE SHOULD PROTECT GUNS???
 @TPYLE Because gun will protect your child  from the evil if allowed. Remember if guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns.
@Civ ... I UNDERSTAND THAT COMPLETELY AND I DON'T BELIEVE GUNS SHOULD BE OUTLAWED IN FULL... I DON'T HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHY WE NEED TO HAVE ASSAULT RIFLES AVAILABLE TO ANYONE.
This comment has been deleted
 @HarryJuku Harry doesn't care about solving the real problems, he just wants guns to go away.  The troll is strong with this one.....
 HarryJuku, Here is the thing. Guns are not going away , Semiautos are not going away. The sporting rifles you call assault rifles are not going away , so no one is shaking in their boots. The president (even though he may try) does not have the power to ban firearms. Neither does congress unless there is constitutional congress to vote to  change the constitution. So no matter how many post you put up ( which makes you look like a ignorant idiot ) that is not going to change.   If you don't like that , move to mexico where firearms are banned ( look how well that is working for them ,with the help of Holder and Obama, by the way , with  fast and furious ).
most Guns are banned in Australia and only the bad guys have them and the people are being assaulted and robbed and home invasions are way up. you have to have your gun locked up and the ammo stored away from the gun. now just try stopping a home invasion with their laws. their government promised more police  protection but never delivered and it is the bad guy who is winning there. Don't let that happen here.
Mexico has strict gun laws. its working great for them!
I'll be all over gun control.......
 the day guns commit a mass murder WITHOUT being fired by some sick individual.
Â
until then, the solution lies on the human side of the equation not the hardware side.
 @kramr How about we reverse that?
Â
Let's imagine a shooting rampage that ends because the gun jams but the guy holding it remains crazy. In that sort of situation, the lack of functional equipment on the hardware side of the equation would make the human side irrelevant.
@Max Quinn   """"" In that sort of situation, the lack of functional equipment on the hardware side of the equation would make the human side irrelevant."""""""
Wow, thats really reaching....
Â
 Why yes, lets make laws based on the exception and not the rule [rolleyes]
Â
Let write everyone who owns a corvette a ticket speeding ticket for 180mph on the outside chance the throttle sticks, the vettes are capable of that speed in relatively short order. Same logic
 @Max Quinn  @kramr crazy person in a car running over people at the Portland marathon- bad car!!! bad car!!!!! The poor innocent driver  " Sorry officer the car just got a mind of its own and decided to run these people over".Â
 @kramr [slap forehead]
Â
Crazy person with gun = bullets flying. Crazy person with no gun = no bullets flying.
Â
In kramrworld, lots of high-powered semi-automatic rifles with extended magazines = serene safety for all (except when it doesn't but you can't do anything about that).
and If we didn't own cars their wouldn't be car crashes.
Â
But to say their wouldn't be murder is laughable. You cant legislate crazy.
Â
In your world if we took away guns from every person in the world we could end people killing other people right? Sadly this type of stuff occured long before the gun was ever invented.
 @mike Nope. Never said there would be no murder or people would stop killing each other or being crazy. In fact, I said just the opposite.
Â
Also, we've place many, many regulations on cars that have succeeded in making driving safer. We didn't need to ban cars.
Now, another YOUNG MALE in LA has been arrested for threatening schools. He was caught.Â
Under age 25. We have a problem with the tantrums of young people - primarily.Â
Max, maybe you should talk to the teachers. And yes, we have a PERS problem - even some of the Demcrats CAN admit that.Â
I am wrapping presents.Â
Â
Hey Harry, and some of the others on here who think gun control is going to stop the sickest human beings on the planet from killing innocent, unarmed people. Look up the story about Nick Meli, the 22 year old who was at Clackamas Town Center when Jacob Roberts opened fire. Meli positioned himself behind a pillar, and then trained the sight of his 9mm on Roberts as Roberts' gun jammed. He was prepared to fire, when he saw someone move in the line of fire behind Roberts, so he did not shoot, fearing if he missed, he could hit and kill someone. That's being a responsible gun owner, and CCP holder. Roberts saw that Meli had drawn a bead on him, so he ran. Without that threat, he may very well have stayed there to unjam his gun, and kill more innocent, unarmed people. When more sickos with guns are faced with the threat of others who can actually shoot back, then, and only then, will there be a real deterrent. Laws will not keep those who want to do harm, from doing harm. They will get whatever kind of gun they can get their hands on, legally or otherwise. People who obey and respect laws, are not the ones we need to feel threatened by. Where was the government, and all it's laws when Roberts ran into that food court? It was an ARMEDÂ CITIZEN with a legal CCP that caused Roberts to run, and then kill himself. Meli is man who didn't even have to fire his weapon..to be a hero.
@KillsGermsOnContact to bad the media will never cover that CHL's actions the way they should. That is exaclty the type of discipline a real CHL carrier prepares for. Im sorry Deejm2112 cannot follow the simple logic of that but let me some it up and slow it down for them.
Â
CHL are not the same as gang bangers and nut jobs who spary rounds without taking in to consideration their backstop or other factors. The responsible actions of this man versus the type of weapon the nut had are apples to oranges comaprison.Â
@KillsGermsOnContact Helps if you post a link http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2012/12/16/virtually-unreported-ccw-holder-likely-prevented-larger-clackamas-mall-d
Â
Even though facts like this are usually ignored its helpful to back up statements.
 @KillsGermsOnContact The guy still got ~100 shots off, I say the fact he was a poor aim and used a less reliable rifle that jammed was more of a contributor to the reduced carnage than the CHP holder.
 @deejm2112  @KillsGermsOnContact Of course you say that. It fits your narrative, doesn't it?
 @deejm2112  @NotAChance  @'CouvGuy You guys cannot argue with him.  He is a true believer, and no cogent, well-reasoned argument supported by facts is going to change his mind.  He is a Totalitarian Statist and will only be happy when the Government controls everything.
 @NotAChance  @'CouvGuy It's not a good counter...a person attacked with a steak knife has a much higher survival rate than getting shot by any number of caliber bullets.
 @deejm2112  @'CouvGuy Interesting how you combine those. How about "no one needs a gun, much less a STEAK knife".
 @'CouvGuy  @NotAChance Yes, they could ban certain weapons and i think should. Nobody will ever convince me they need assault rifles with high capacity clips...or machine guns, or grenade launchers, etc....
 @deejm2112  @NotAChance ".... I've never said once to ban guns, not once. I would, however, welcome a limit to your arsenal...."  So, you don't want to ban guns all the way, but sorta ban them kinda depending on how many you have?  And, while we'd be better off if there were no guns, you never said to ban them, but we'd be better off without them, but maybe if they'd go away somehow.....dude, you make my head ache.  I think you could have a very effective argument, all by yourself....;-)
 @NotAChance  @'CouvGuy  @KillsGermsOnContact And meat cleavers...the weapon of choice in China....
 @'CouvGuy  @deejm2112  @KillsGermsOnContact Yeah, I mean, who needs more than 3?
 @NotAChance I've never said once to ban guns, not once. I would, however, welcome a limit to your arsenal.
 @NotAChance  @deejm2112  @KillsGermsOnContact ...yeah, but it only applies to assault steak knives, or ones that have a butcher block holding more than 10 knives....;-)
 @deejm2112  @KillsGermsOnContact And there's no discussing with you. You've got the entire world sorted out. And here's a juicy tidbit detailing where your type of madness leads to (granted it from 2005):
Â
A Call To Ban Steak Knives
Â
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm A&E doctors are calling for a ban on long pointed kitchen knives to reduce deaths from stabbing. A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings. They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon. The research is published in the British Medical Journal. The researchers said there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all. They consulted 10 top chefs from around the UK, and found such knives have little practical value in the kitchen.
 @NotAChance  @KillsGermsOnContact I know you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to believe this guy made a difference to further your point...but he didn't, at all.
 @NotAChance  @KillsGermsOnContact This "CHL" holder has no credibility whatsoever. He was there...OK.
Â
I guarantee, if the gun didn't jam more people would be dead.
I remember several years ago overhearing a rather loud teacher in a restaurant, talking about how she didn't want to turn her back to the teens in her classroom, because she was afraid of them. So, I think teachers should have some means to defend themselves and/or there could be safety people walking the halls - like at malls. And that person should have a gun. It wouldn't have to be a policeman complete with PERS benefits.Â
Â
 @Lei22 Stupendous. I can see how committed you are to keeping school kids safe: let's have armed people roaming the halls - but let's not go all PERS crazy - we can get 'em cheap. A true inspiration...
 @Max Quinn  @Lei22 Interesting how you rush in with your platitudes, but never respond to direct questions. Typical.
 @NotAChance  @Max Quinn  @Lei22 Apparently guns have nothing to do with this....
 @NotAChance "and you respond with death threats? Even towards CHILDREN after what happened? And yet you are one of those who would call any gun owner any number of names. Inexcusable."
Â
I DIDNT SAY I CONDONED IT....seriously, go back to watching Faux News....you'll fit right in.
 @NotAChance  @deejm2112  @Lei22 Agreed. Sounds reasonable.
 @Max Quinn  @deejm2112  @Lei22 Perhaps we get serious about mental health issues in this country. Short-term, look, I don't have any answers. But long-term requires to ask why so many in this country no longer have any regard for life. Everything we see around us, from corruption in our markets and politics, the evident decline in morals all contribute to what we are witnessing. Yet, so many are convinced culture has nothing to do with it. They can't, because they believe values promote judgement. And they recoil from being judgmental. Yet we are missing exactly that. Let's discuss the impact of videos, tv, movies, lax parents along with gun ownership. Until we're willing to have everything on the table, and not just what one side desires, there will be no solution.
 @NotAChance  @deejm2112  @Lei22 How about this: Great. You are right. Inexcusable.
Now what do you think we should do about massacres like this?
 @deejm2112  @Max Quinn  @Lei22 And you respond with death threats? Even towards CHILDREN after what happened? And yet you are one of those who would call any gun owner any number of names. Inexcusable.
 @NotAChance  @Max Quinn  @Lei22 Do you think people might have been a bit angry? I know I was furious.
 @NotAChance  @Lei22 The 10 people who posted the tweets were wrong to do so. I don't know if they are serious or seriously deranged, but they exercised poor judgement.
 @Max Quinn  @Lei22 Fine. Repost -Â
Â
Here's a prime example of many in the anti-gun camp tweeting their "intellectual" thoughts:Â
Â
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?398689-Gun-Grabbers-Call-for-Murder-of-NRA-President-Supporters-in-Wake-of-Mass-Shooting
Â
Reading these comments, tell me, who are the unbalanced individuals in society?
 @NotAChance  @Lei22 Sorry I missed it. Can you repeat it?
 @Max Quinn  @Lei22 Posts I've made repeatedly concerning death threats from unbalanced leftists towards the NRA. I've posted it 3 times, one directed at YOU (while you were spewing about unbalanced gun owners, WHICH to you, mean all of them).
 @NotAChance  @Lei22 What question are you talking about?
Read these articles:
http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/2058168-Lt-Col-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2012/12/15/against-monsters/
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
 @BBinAlbany even this cop says... "g. Armed citizens can help. Think United 93. Whatever your personal take on gun control, it is all but certain that a killer set on killing is more likely to attack a target where the citizens are unarmed, rather than one where they are likely to encounter an armed citizen response."
Â
true. Â Very true.
 @Umhal  @BBinAlbany "Think United 93."
Â
Because armed citizens on planers are good????
 @deejm2112  @BBinAlbany Then don't fly.  Simple.  If you want to limit your world, by all means you are free to do so, but you are NOT free to limit mine.  That's the base issue here, whether or not you choose to see it.
Â
You can hide in your house for the rest of your days, but I will not accept the cost of making you feel better about stepping out your door. Â That is YOUR responsibility.
 @deejm2112  @Umhal Face it, you are unwilling or unable to defend yourself or others and only want other people to shoulder the load for you.  Do you need a bag boy to assist you at the grocery store?  Thank god we have braver men that you that charge towards the sounds of the guns so that others may live.
Â
I pray you don't get your way, and I can remain bitter and clinging, and able to protect myself and my family should the need arise.
 @Umhal  @BBinAlbany I don't want to be on a plane when a gun gets fired....depressurization at that height would be very very bad. I'd prefer the enforced cockpit doors thanks.
 @deejm2112  @BBinAlbany Yes!  But I think you're intentionally missing the base concept here :  Citizens prepared to defend themselves ARE good, whether on an airplane or at a mall, in the checkout line at the supermarket or sitting in their recliner at home.  Prepared to defend themselves with a plan, with conviction, with whatever tools are appropriate for the job of staying alive!