Are TriMet's broken fare machines creating an unfair system?
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PORTLAND, Ore. - There're still problems with TriMet's ticket machines and riders are fed up, some saying broken machines are leaving them slapped with a fine when they're trying to do the right thing.
People wanted stronger enforcement with more fare inspectors on MAX trains, but now that they have it some riders say enforcement is too heavy handed because too many ticket machines are broken.
"It either won't take change or it won't take the plastic," MAX rider Daniel Goliz said about the automated fare machines.
Goliz and his family depend on TriMet and the MAX trains, especially, for getting around town.
The Goliz family isn't alone. Every MAX rider KATU News spoke with said they have problems with the machines.
"It's at every MAX stop, almost every Max stop," said Daquashona King who has been ticketed twice for nonpayment. "It doesn't take cards and sometimes it doesn't take dollars."
On one platform MAX riders say they can pay with cash but if they use plastic they won't get a ticket.
But once on the MAX they may get a ticket they can't afford: $175 for nonpayment of fare.
According to TriMet, it's true, but riders need to know that they have other options if they come across a broken machine.
"If one machine isn't working, they can try the other one. There are always two machines at a station," said TriMet spokeswoman Mary Fetsch. "If a bus is nearby, they can buy a fare from a bus operator."
Fetsch says more than 90 percent of the machines work and TriMet is replacing some of the older machines that break down more often.
But riders say they've reported bad machines and many are still not working. They want the new beefed up fare inspection team to consider their difficulties before they get slammed with a ticket for nonpayment that they can't afford.
"Hopefully, they will have common sense and a certain amount of leniency toward certain individuals," Goliz said.
According to TriMet, riders can appeal the fare tickets. If those riders identify non-working machines that won't print tickets and TriMet confirms the problem, riders can get the fines canceled.
I am 29 and have been disabled for the past 10 years. I went to a church to get a food box 2 stops clevland to city hall Ive had fare checkers tell me if Im only going 1or 2 stops and the machine didnt work on the first one its fine. Yet I got a ticket to day for only going 2 stops with broken machine at first. I cant work and dont have money. Oh well. the checkers said and next time I need to have the name of the checker that told me it would be O.K. So When I see him I will get his name but any other time I will be riding I will and everyone should turn the phone camera on and record what is said FROM ANY FARE CHECKERS.Â
@James Davis You probably shouldn't tell people to record things in this state without at least pointing to the law about such.  There are some particular requirements people should know.
IF the machines are not working, and Tri Met knows it, it seems the fare inspectors should be testing the machines at each stop. If the machines are not working, at a stop, then NO TICKETS SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THOSE WHO GET ABOARD THERE. I have myself been unable to purchase a ticket, OR put money in and rec'd no ticket. If there is a problem with ticketing, suspend the ticket writing. Seems simple.
They got to come up with money to pay for new choochoo trains and new buses somehow
Broken fare machines almost by definition create an "unfare" system, don't they?
they don't call it the MAX for nothing. MAXimum penalty for people stuck without a ticket due to broken machines
Government subsidized, government run. Say hello to how your health care will be delivered. Trimet should be able to function without taxpayer subsidy. If it cannot, then I seriously question whether it should continue to exist.
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 @feministdolphinbuddha  @Scruffy Scirocco Well, I sure wouldn't want the health care system run as the police, that's for sure.
SCOTUS has said the police have *no* duty to protect us. Â Is that how you want healthcare done? Â No actual duty to keep us healthy or to try to keep us alive?
Garbage, as you so point out, works very well. Â It's also almost all privatized these days. Â (Oops, that wasn't your point, now was it?)
Fireman may be government run, but the best running ones I've ever seen were the all volunteer ones in small communities.
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I'd agree about the Iraq & Afghanistan observation however :)
 @brendan "SCOTUS has said the police have *no* duty to protect us.  Is that how you want healthcare done?  No actual duty to keep us healthy or to try to keep us alive?"
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Sounds an awful lot like how healthcare was run before. It was a great system for profits, but don't get sick.
All businesses have problems. My issue with Tri-met is that right now they are sort of a monopolistic corporation. Without the competition they do not have the pressure to attempt to make good business choices. The customer service quoted in the article above is atrocious. They have a smartass answer to every complaint. "Well, we are TRYING to replace the machines, we put two at each station, one of them SHOULD work; just wait for a bus and buy a fare from a bus driver." This is the same kind of condescending tone you get if you call their customer service to complain. The message they pass to the riders is that we can take it or leave it. If you don't like what you get then stop being a customer. Like it's somehow our fault that their business is so difficult to run. We are the customers! All businesses should dictate to their customers. I don't care how rude we can be, it's your job to get us to our destination, and from what I read of customer complaints, that job is hardly being done.
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I live near the stop on 122nd and Burnside. I have learned that my best bet is to stop on the platform for the East (Gresham) bound platform to purchase my ticket before walking to the West (Hillsboro) bound platform to board the train. Only one of the machines on 'my' platform accepts cards, the other often says cash only. I don't always have money on my card when the cash machine is broken, and I don't always have cash when the card machine is broken.  It's Murphy's law when riding the train.I make sure that I've got a cell phone picture of the broken machine before I board the train, but I've heard fare inspectors say to other riders, "You should have ridden to the next stop, paid there, and waited for the next train."I don't have time for that. I'm in school, work, and have a household to take care of. I cannot be expected to leave 45 minutes early everywhere I go to avoid being punished for a broken max machine. I've also been kicked off the max 3 times for overcrowding. You see, I like to ride my bicycle part of the way to work. Rather than taking the bus, I'll ride to the nearest max stop. I still pay as much as people who use both, but only utilize seats on one. I'm able to squeeze myself and my bike on to pretty crowded trains without being "that jerk" that pushes people around. I cannot begin to describe the frustration of being the first one told I have to get off the max, even though I've paid. I quietly get off and wait for the next max while I watch unruly teenagers take the spot where I once stood. I call customer care while waiting for the next max and get told, "unfortunately if there is no room...there is no room." BUT THERE WAS. I was 'busted' once for apparent fare jumping. They drop the fine to $60 if you plead guilty. I did. I didn't see the point in taking another day off and losing another day of wages to battle a $60 fine. Ridiculous. These days I carry with me all of my previous max tickets. I have a bundle dating back to early January. They are in chronological order. It's a rather hefty stack. The next time I am fare inspected, I will show them the stack of old tickets and the photo of the broken machine. I will say, "Oh, I'm sorry sir. I thought this was a 'buy 160 tickets, get one free' system. If that doesn't work, I'll run like hell. When the system is functioning, I always pay. I pay to get kicked off for over crowding. I pay to get thrown up on. I pay to get groped by creepy old men. I pay to watching Gresham's finest verbally abuse their children. Occasionally I even pay to get to work on time.
This problem is partly due to the "free access" that everyone has to the Max Stations. In the Bay Area, access to the platforms is limited to those that have paid the fare, and they have lots of fare machines at each entrance, and security/customer service reps nearby to fix any malfunctioning machines. If MAX had been built underground (yes, it would cost more, but it would clear the streets of dangerous tracks and trains), it would be faster, more convenient, and fare collection would be easy and equitable. Blame Vera Katz for this one!
A suggestion for those who ride Max on a regular basis (meaning daily to work, etc.). Buy a pass. It's a little cheaper than paying cash every time (I save at least $4 per month just going to and from work) plus you don't have to worry about broken machines. That being said, TriMet really does need to maintain the machines and ensure they function properly.
Suggestion:
Paying for tickets/passes via smart phone.
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Concept:
The ticket would appear on the phone with the ticket type, purchase/expiration time, cost, etc.
It would disappear from your phone when it expires.
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Benefits:
1. No complaints of broken machines
2. Super convenient
3. Technologically superior to other cities
4. Save costs on paper passes/fixing machines
 @Improprietous There is also the issue of all of us who have phones paid for by someone else (in my case my work), are pre-paid, etc. and you cannot use the phone to buy things like that unless it is an account somewhere else that you keep loaded with money or charges your card. Many of the services with your phone just add the cost onto your bill for the month, which wouldn't be possible for the people I mentioned above.
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I don't know why they can't do like other places around the country and just have a card that you load and then you use that. Fare inspectors can easily check your card to see if you swiped it on the way in and if you didn't, swipe it. Then you can use your card at whatever frequency you want - buy a month pass, year pass, 20 all day tickets you use occasionally, etc.
 @Jenni S. It's not an issue.  You simply don't use that method.
@Improprietous The thugs that ride the Crime Train will steal your cell phone.
 @Billy Batts  @Improprietous Doubtful, but thanks for the pessimism. It seems that nearly everyone on the MAX is playing with their smart phones or iPads in transit. This would be a good additional option.
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 @Improprietous Yep great idea but as Freckled_Girl said, not everyone has smartphones.
 @JWolfPDX What I'm saying is that it's an additional option to a machine. Many people on the MAX play with their smart phones and iPads in transit; they're out there.
 @Improprietous And then my battery died just as fare inspectors boarded the train.Â
 @AmyWho Yeah, that's about the only issue I can see; what happens when your phone dies? I guess you'd have to revert back to using a machine.
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 @Improprietous Except a lot of people who take public transit probably wouldn't have a smart phone. Nice idea though.
 @Freckled_Girl Just because not everyone has a smart phone doesn't mean this can't happen.  It would make it more convenient though for those that do, and others would still have the ticket machines.
 @Improprietous I never said it wasn't a good idea. I just think that would be another way for Trimet to avoid the issue of having to fix the machines for people without a smartphone.
 @ACasanova I know, right? Just like how Starbucks has the app that you can download, making it so you never have to touch your wallet again. Every time I pay for a drink, I just have them scan my phone. :-)
 @Freckled_Girl Are you kidding? Have you had your eyes closed whenever you're on the MAX? Everyone is either playing with their smart phones or iPads.Â
Trimet doesn't give a crap about their riders at all. I've gotten a ticket a couple of times for nonpayment of fare for this exact reason. The ones out by the Washington County Fair complex are horrible. I've reported different machines numerous times and nothing seems to be changed. Instead of buying new trains, how about a system that actually works?
They have a number you can call if there's a problem well, most of the time things happen on the weekend how convient for Trimet that they don't have to deal with it cause they only do it Mondays thru Fridays and never on the weekends.
They need to get there act together. I live by the Willow Creek tc and the machine are constantly not working. This tc is always busy and you'd think that there busiest tc that they's maintain there ticket machine and validators better but they don't. To me on Friday morning before the weekend I'd be checking all the machines and that there working properly and that they'll be able to take bills, coins and credit cards. Half of the time at Willow Creek the machines won't take bills or card.
What I heard the other day about Trimet and seeing this story just makes me even more upset. They increase the fares every September which doesn't bother me. Then they elimanate certain routes because of low rider ship and budget cuts and fuel prices but now they have enough money to buy "11" new MAX cars what in the hell is that all about. Use that money and fix what you have and giving us riders excuses.
 @Dinah Virginia Matagora-Crowley Except they *can't* use that money for anything else.  It's to buy the new trains, or lose the money (and it's not like it goes back to taxpayers, it'll simply go to another agency next on the list).  I'll take the trains instead of nothing, tyvm.
@Dinah Virginia Matagora-Crowley But you get to vote on the seating configurations.....I'm having a glass half full moment.
...and they just spent over a billion dollars on new trains?? It is rare that the ticket machine at 82nd ave works. Someone punched the screen and it was blacked out for almost a year. I have had been forced many times to ride without paying because BOTH machines were out of order. It happens more often than not.  Get your priorities in order trimet.
BOTH validators at the Goose Hollow stop are almost always broken, so the suggestion of using another machine at the platform is not a viable option when neither machine works.
The system is perfect for entrapment purposes as this is how it was designed. Each ticket for not having a fare pass is $175 where the monthly pass is only $92. So it  makes common sense to not have the machines working.
Max the worst train system in the nation.
You never check riders fair, you stop every two blocks, always running late.
What a waste of money!
@Oregon_University_of_Made_in_China From @Improprietous below:
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1. âPortland is widely considered one of the nationâs leaders in public transit"
(U.S. News & World Report 2012)
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2. Ranked #10 - Best public transportation
(Smartplanet.com, thinkprogress.org, theatlanticcities.com 2012
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3. Ranked #5 - Best public transportation
(Smartplanet.com 2011, U.S. News 2011)
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6. Ranked #1 - Best public transportation
(Shareable.net 2011)
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7. Ranked #2 - Best city to live without a car
(247wallst.com)
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 @Oregon_University_of_Made_in_China On-time (within 3 minutes) since 2004 except for a small handful of times over the last 8 years.  I'm pretty sure you meant fare, not fair.
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Of course it stops every two blocks, DUH, that's what it's *designed to do*.  Let me know when you have complaints about commuter routes (WES -- gee, it doesn't stop every two blocks) and express routes, which are the ones that are NOT supposed to be stopping every two blocks.
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Can you back up the claim it's the worst? Â Because it usually gets rated as one of the best, lol.
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</awaits the anecdotal stories presented as facts>
 @Oregon_University_of_Made_in_China Funny, I completely disagree.
 @Oregon_University_of_Made_in_China Odd. I've ridden the Max every working day for 15 years, and it is rarely late. I can also think of very few locations where it stops "every two blocks" (Lloyd district and sections of downtown). And having used rail in a number of cities, Portland's stacks up as nearly the best.
Billions and billions of dollars for a system that can't even keep the fare machines in order, that doesn't care to have enough fare inspectors and that can't keep the trains safe. It's dysfuncional like most other governments. And they keep expanding their dysfunctionality to more areas. Now they want to go into Washington. Get your house in order before spreading your antiquated system of transportation.
 @hankhandsome
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Maybe you should get to more U.S. cities before you cast a judgement
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1. âPortland is widely considered one of the nationâs leaders in public transit"
(U.S. News & World Report 2012)
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2. Ranked #10 - Best public transportation
(Smartplanet.com, thinkprogress.org, theatlanticcities.com 2012
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3. Ranked #5 - Best public transportation
(Smartplanet.com 2011, U.S. News 2011)
Â
6. Ranked #1 - Best public transportation
(Shareable.net 2011)
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7. Ranked #2 - Best city to live without a car
(247wallst.com)
Look Tri-met, yes there are options and reporting the machine, being pulled off and issued a ticket, and contesting it later is one. How about a little common sense. All the machines take credit cards. Therefore its on some sort of network. When that machine flashes an "error" screen...don't just store that info for later verification...send it in real time to inspectors via their smart phone. That way, when a person says a machine was broken, it can be verified on the spot. If that person will be transferring to a bus or another train they have to buy a ticket anyway. If they're not transferring...they get a free ride to their destination and tri-met has motivation to fix that broken machine ASAP. Or, another option would be for the conductor to look at the flashing yellow light that is on every ticket machine when it fails and log it down so when the inspectors get on, the conductor can tell the inspector which machines were broken. That may be against union rules, (eye roll), but it's time to quit shifting the blame for your ineptitude on the rider trying to do the right thing....not everyone is trying to cheat....fix your damn system!Â
 @Glenn Studebaker They don't have a conductor, though someone did mention adding them as a means to take fares.  They do have, however, an operator.
"If a bus is nearby, they can buy a fare from a bus operator."
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Yeah, that's a good solution. I'm going to wait for a bus to buy a fare, and then wait for a train. I could walk where I need to go by that time. Light rail is a joke, a damned expensive one.
This has happened to me a few times. A down machine, not taking money, I don't use plastic. Noted the number of the machine, security did a fare check, pulled me off the train...Here is Trimet;s response, If a machine is down, you are to get off at the next stop and buy a ticket there...(only riding the system once a week, no need for a monthly pass). Makes sense to me (NOT)!!!! If I have a doctor's appointment that i booked weeks ago, planned my trip using "trip planner" .. so the machine doesn't take my money...I am suppose to miss my appointment because I have to get off the train and buy a ticket (at hopefully a working machine) and then wait 15 plus minutes for another train....what a joke.
Side note, I had a trimet employee tell me the problem is the system rebots at 5pm and half the ticket machines do not come back on line....we the riders pay the priceÂ
 @Tyler Van Pelt Yup.. Incompetency is a disease...
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Despite what they say, sometimes there aren't other options.
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Example: Many times, in more rural stops, there is one machine out of two that takes card. If you don't have cash and the card machine isn't working, you're screwed.
Oh come on sortbait, The Crime Train is all the rage. It just costs Billions of dollars when Tri Met could have bought more buses, had more drivers with great benifits and improved roads for everyone.
Trimet has too much power over our lives...We need to stop things like the Max line to Milwaukie which is not wanted and needed by the people living there.
 @sortbait "We needed to have stopped thing like..."  there, fixed it.