Bill aims to put flags, Pledge back in Oregon classrooms
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PORTLAND, Ore. - Six Republican members of the Oregon House have introduced a bill that would put an American flag in every public classroom and give students an opportunity to read or recite the Pledge of Allegiance each school day.
Currently, Oregon public schools are only required to have an American and Oregon flag near the school building. Schools are also required to give students a chance to salute the flag, but only once a week.
But House Bill 3014, which was introduced Thursday, would change that if passed. Six of the 26 Republicans in the Oregon House are sponsoring the bill.
The bill would mandate US and Oregon flags "of a suitable size" in classrooms and "provide a time at least once daily during school hours for an employee or a student of the school to lead students in the salute of the United State flag by reciting: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Following a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1943, students cannot be legally compelled to say the Pledge or stand while it is being read or recited.
KATU News took to the street to get feedback on the bill - and to see who knew the Pledge by heart.
"As long as they explain to the kids what they're saying I think it'd be a great thing," one person said.
"It shows respect for your country and people that came before you," another man said.
Controversy still surrounds two key words in the Pledge: "under God."
"I don't think you should make that mandatory," one man said. "That was added, it was not part of the original pledge."
The words "under God" were added to the Pledge in 1954 during the start of the Cold War against communism.
"Don't most people generally believe in God?" another man asked. "I mean, I don't know, is that a big deal?"
"I guess I just don't believe in forcing my beliefs on someone else," another person said. But one man who said he was an atheist said he didn't mind keeping the words "under God" in the Pledge.
Many people who talked to KATU News struggled to recite the complete Pledge of Allegiance.
There are 34 Democrats in the House but so far, it is unclear exactly how much support the bill has.
Nobody should reform the pledge. End the pledge. The pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute and Nazi behavior (see the book "Pledge of Allegiance + Swastika Secrets" by Ian Tinny and Dr. Rex Curry. It continues to be the origin of Nazi behavior. Only the gesture has changed. Remove the pledge from the flag. Remove the flags from schools. Remove schools from government.
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I agree with wondering, however, have you all ever stopped and looked at our children? When we were kids there was no question. You said the Pledge, you honored God, family and country. There is no respect any longer. Why? because Government and minorities have taken away the majorities rights. Time to take back what should be. This use to be a country to be proud of, but no longer. We don't support teachers, our churches, and neighbors. There is more hate today then in our history. Grow up all and face the fact that Gen X is failing and lets get back to the good basics of Family and God and not take away what the people really need and want. And race has nothing to do with this. If you try and bring it into this what is wrong with you? Are you a bigot? I feel sorry for you. This is America, we are a blend of people. So get over it and stop using the race card. It no longer works.
Shouldn't need a law for this. It should just be done like when I was in school. So what happens after they make this law, but participation is "optional"...for now. How long until they take your "option" away?
As long as it's optional, I don't have a problem with this in any way. Â And Mipsfer, I have no problem spending my own money, thanks, but I've been tempted many, many times to pen out the "In God We Trust" on my bills, since it is in the opinion of many, including myself, a cut and dry violation of the 1st Amendment.
@Jamie Nordmeyer Why, are you ashamed of God?
@Erin Chavez @Jamie Nordmeyer http://imgur.com/vMr0p
Finally....a bill I actually hope passes! We've waited too long for it....this is a good thing.
I'm sure those against the pledge, who cite the inclusion
of the words 'under God' as the reason, certainly don't mind
spending MONEY inscribed with the words 'in God we trust'.
But If that also bothers you too, send me all of your money so you
don't have to look at those horrible little words anymore.
@Mipsfer Nah. Just like Jamie, I just pen them out. I worked hard for the money and don't plan tojust  hand it over especially to someone with a religious agenda. The churches are already getting a free ride with no taxes. Where does the greed end?
im te 512th kkkoment!
@Pers Retiree did your cat just walk across the keyboard?
seems a bit nationalist doesn't it?
@GNTLwarrior Why? Because we want to honor the country that we live in? Stop it with the white guilt already.
@Mr. Carbon Footprint @GNTLwarrior white guilt? So I'm assuming you salute the flag every morning and say the pledge of allegiance daily?
@Mr. Carbon Footprint @GNTLwarriorÂ
Interesting that you brought race into the discussion. Â Kind of a stupid comment, really. Â Jingoism is never a good thing, nor is a non sequitir like "white guilt."
@Mr. Carbon Footprint @Diogenes @GNTLwarriorÂ
Idiot. Â YOU brought up race. Â Nobody else did. Â YOU did. Â God, what a moron.
@Diogenes @Mr. Carbon Footprint @GNTLwarrior Oh gosh better break out the pachouli. Why is it racist to be jingoistic? Last I heard America is made up from people of pretty much every national and racial origin. Sorry, there is a white guilt crowd though.Â
I'm for this only if they include the original Bellamy flag salute!
I really think we have better things to do with schools' money than enrich lawyers. And since the GOP is still stuck in the 19th Century, why don't they advocate using the original Pledge?
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
@david_42Â Great idea, but I think they should advocate using the pledge from prior to 1892.
I think it's sad that we need a bill to tell us it's o.k. to be proud to  be an American.
@Common Sence It's too bad the bill doesn't do that. It just tells kids that they need to stand for 30 seconds and repeat a phrase.
This is typical of the type of bill republicans waste time on. "Look at us, see how patriotic we are". It absolutely 100% will not pass as soon as common sense prevails. Â
I pledge allegience to the Unions, Welfare Recipients, and Illegal Aliens of the Divided States of America
@Lo Pan I pledge allegiance to money, greed, prisons and the Corporate Entities of America. What's your point?
@dynamited77 @Lo Pan   That the great Greek philosophers were right about Democracy when the predicted that it would descend into a shouting mob, each fighting for their own interests instead of the interests of the common good, until their resources and wealth were squandered and the system was unable to provide for their combined selfishness and would inevitable collapse.
So said the founders of Democracy, and so it is happening again.
No one should reform the pledge. End it. It was the origin of the Nazi salute and Nazi behavior (see the book "Pledge of Allegiance + Swastika Secrets" by Ian Tinny and Dr. Rex Curry. It continues to be the origin of Nazi behavior. Only the gesture has changed.
@Edward Bellamy Bull. The "salute" goes back to at least the Roman empire.
@Playanekes @Edward Bellamy Bull. The salute does NOT go back to the ancient Roman empire. That is an old debunked myth. No one should reform the pledge. End it. It was the origin of the Nazi salute and Nazi behavior (see the book "Pledge of Allegiance + Swastika Secrets" by Ian Tinny and Dr. Rex Curry.Â
What I'd REALLY like to see is to reform the Pledge itself to something like:Â "I pledge allegiance to the People of the United States of America, and to the Ideal for which our Republic stands: one Nation, indivisible, E Pluribus Unum, with Liberty, Justice and Equal Rights for all."
I am glad to see this come back. I feel that as American's we need to teach our children to respect our flag and what it stands for. This is just one some step towards that goal that we all should have.
There are religions who do not pledge to the flag. and what about the illegals? what about the million dollars this will cost taxpayers for flags in every classroom? shouldn't the state spend their time on fixing stuff instead of the feel good stuff?
@32jim2Â Million dollars on flags? Seriously doubt that. Yes, and what about the freeloading illegals?
@TreeWizard http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m35aml1Ogl1qct4zgo1_400.jpg
@Mr. Carbon Footprint @darren vandervort @TreeWizard Switzerland lately
@darren vandervort @TreeWizard Awesome.
Now imagine Chief Joseph, Geronimo and Crazy Horse standing on a hill recommending open borders and wholesale immigration, and calling each other racist for sounding alarm.
@Diogenes @Mr. Carbon Footprint @darren vandervort @TreeWizard Last I heard we sort of stopped that a long time ago, issued apologies in Congress and offered compensation in various forms. It doesn't make what happened right but at least in this nation we are able to recognize our errors. I would say that is a unique and positive thing about America as compared to other places around the world. Has Russia apologized yet for enslaving all of the Eastern block countries after WWII yet? Oh that's right, nobody cares because they were all ....."white Europeans".
@Mr. Carbon Footprint @darren vandervort @TreeWizardÂ
I think maybe it's all the broken treaties and massacring villages full of women and children that makes our nation particularly vile. Â The treatment of the American Indian at the hands of the US Government is STILL considered the peak of human rights abuses. Â The Nazis killed 6,000,000 people in pursuit of power. Â We slaughtered an estimated 14,000,000.
@darren vandervort @TreeWizard What nation in the history of mankind has not been invaded, overrun, melded or infused?Â
@TreeWizard @32jim2Â
I know you have your hardon for illegal immigrants, and all, but they actually pay far more in taxes than they take in in services. Â I mean, if we're going to talk about them, we should at least be operating with the facts, right?
@32jim2Â @Diogenes I see more Mexican flags around town than plastic bags flying down the street.
@musicloverÂ
No. Â Facts can't be twisted, that's why they're called "facts." Â And the fact is, immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in services. Â La Raza's isn't the only study to come to this conclusion, they're just the first source I cited. Â But you're not really interested in knowing the truth, because you've got you some immigrants to hate, and that's all a conservative really wants.
Nobody is trying to keep them from learning - if their parents are here illegally, they can teach them themselves, or go back home, where they should have stayed in the first place!
You're quoting La Raza?? Don't forget, "facts" can be twisted to show support for any agenda - and these guys certainly have an agenda!! I wouldn't take their word for anything regarding illegal immigration! Yes, some of them pay some taxes - but the majjority of them who are illegal use far more in all the government services than all of them pay in taxes!
@TreeWizard Don't taze me bro
@Bert @TreeWizard @32jim2 @Diogenes I understand.
@TreeWizard @Bert @32jim2 @Diogenes Sorry about the spelling police I should not of ratted you out about it, but I just read the story about college for illegals
@Bert @TreeWizard @32jim2 @Diogenes uhhh, I am sorry Bert.
@Bert @TreeWizard @32jim2 @Diogenes Not the time Bro. Respect my Authority Bert. If I want to say are and not our Respect it.
@TreeWizard @32jim2 @Diogenes our not are - special tip from the spelling police
@Diogenes @TreeWizard Am just so mad.
@TreeWizard @Diogenes
Because they'd better...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIVHNylH1Mk
@Diogenes @TreeWizard Oh, OH if they put me on hold.OOOO boy, I'd be like a spider monkey and just start citizen arresting people.
@TreeWizardÂ
Yeah. Â As a Federal employee, I can tell you, we looooooooove it when people say "I'm paying your salary." Â You know what I say when I get that line? Â "Can I put you on hold for just a minute?"
@Diogenes @TreeWizard NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I WILL GO TO ALL OF THE LOCAL COLLEGES WITH I.C.E ON SPEED DIAL AND REPORT ALL THE ILLEGALS. and if they refuse to do anything. I will remind them if I payed taxes than I would be paying their salary.
@TreeWizard @DiogenesÂ
We can only hope.
@Diogenes @TreeWizard Its the principle of the matter. And yes, mark my words they will get FAFSA.
@TreeWizard @DiogenesÂ
It's not like they're getting free college, TW.
@Diogenes @TreeWizard 18 is not a child. that's a quasi grown a** adult. Damnit, people need to respect my authority. Also this isn't about getting something out of it. Just because you are a kid doesn't mean you should go to school. There are plenty of American children that cannot afford college, and to have an illegal able to. That is just wrong.Â
@TreeWizard @DiogenesÂ
CHILDREN. Â I don't care what we get out of it. Â CHILDREN.
@Diogenes @TreeWizard What is the point of educating them? Why are we knowingly allowing them to go to school? It just doesn't make sense to me.
@TreeWizardÂ
Do you have kids? Â If not, maybe your perspective would change. Â Maybe it wouldn't. Â But I know that if I can help it, no kid goes without an education in my country. Â I don't give two craps where they came from. Â Kids are sacred.
@Nuclear-XÂ what source?
I call BS on this,consider the source geez,
@Diogenes @TreeWizard When I do things wrong. I do them oh so right.
@Diogenes @TreeWizard Oh, Downer popped up. Whats the point? Is it not illegal to hire an illegal, so why waste the time and slots on people that should not be here and legally cannot be hired.
@TreeWizard @DiogenesÂ
Yours was worse.
@TreeWizard @DiogenesÂ
I don't know. Â We're talking about kids, here. Â As a dad, I can't feel right about shutting minors out of our schools. Â Nobody gets served by keeping these kids from learning. Â Seriously, nobody.
@Diogenes @TreeWizard Fine we both picked bad sources.
@TreeWizard @DiogenesÂ
Don't do that, kiddo. Â Your source is the Center for Immigration Studies, that is constantly found to have manipulated data for the purpose of discrediting all immigration, legal or otherwise, but I didn't say anything. La Raza is an advocacy group, but there's nothing credible in your criticism. Â They're not considered unreliable by journalists, and they do peer-reviewed work on immigrant issues. Â FAIR and CIS, on the other hand, always kick up a fuss when asked for the raw data from which they draw their conclusions. Â That says a lot about their intentions.
@Diogenes @TreeWizard All am saying is, they better not get instate tuition. They better not being going to college period.
@Diogenes @TreeWizard La Raza is very pro illegals. Don't trust them. Like the Fox news of the left.
@TreeWizard
"During their working life, undocumented immigrants in the United States will pay, on average, approximately $80,000 more in taxes per capita than they use in government services, owing to the fact that they are not eligible to take advantage of almost all of the social service programs offered by the federal government, according to a study released by the National Council of La Raza." [Source]
@Diogenes @scoreboard @TreeWizard @32jim2 Dang that was an eerie  read. But ya they pay taxes but they also us services, And we spend money on the criminal ones holding them in jail and what not.
@scoreboard @Diogenes @TreeWizard @32jim2Â
Right Wing Authoritarian.
@TreeWizardÂ
Smart ass.
@Diogenes @scoreboard @TreeWizard @32jim2 It really don't make a difference when the immigration law were passed. The fact of the matter is there are laws, plain and simple. These laws were passed for a reason. If a foreigner wants to come to this country, then fine, do it legally.
You're the one with the flawed logic.
@Diogenes @TreeWizard @scoreboard @32jim2 I made it up. lol just kidding 1 sec. It is from the CIS.
@TreeWizard @Diogenes @scoreboard @32jim2Â
Where's that from?
@Diogenes @scoreboard @TreeWizard @32jim2 "Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household." They do pay taxes; however, they use more than they give.
@scoreboard @TreeWizard @32jim2 @DiogenesÂ
And what's the flaw with that logic, scoreboard? Â America didn't really have immigration laws until 1924, when the sons and grandsons of immigrants who came early decided they wanted to shut the door on all non-white people. Â If you support that idea, then just say it out loud. Â If you don't, then what's your argument for not loosening up our immigration laws to something more like what your ancestors enjoyed?
@TreeWizard @32jim2 @Diogenes Exactly what I was going to say but Diogenes seems to think that since our ancestors came here before we had an immigration laws, that the current illegals should be allowed to come here as well.
@32jim2Â @DiogenesÂ
Eh? Â Well, according to studies, they're paying taxes, why shouldn't their kids get an education?
@32jim2 @Diogenes They shouldn't be in are public schools.
@Diogenes Should illegals mock our flag by pledging to it in the public schools?