Church's AIDS comments stir controversy in Seattle
SEATTLE -- Mars Hill church is trying to reach out to new communities, but those attempts recently hit a road block on Capitol Hill.
Controversial comments made in a church news release are marring a brand new church location rising from the ashes of an old property at 5th Avenue and Marion Street in Seattle.
Mars Hill left its Belltown location late last year to make way for the new downtown location. But in a press release about the location, the church said:
"Also, being closer to Capitol Hill is a blessing as we are serving and ministering to those who are infected with AIDS on the hill."
Mars Hill has an openly strong stance against allowing gay members in the church. The release set off a firestorm online and in the alternative press, including The Stranger.
Sarah Toce with Social Outreach Seattle says she appreciates the church trying to reach out to her community, but she doesn't like what the press release implied and she doesn't like the church's opinion on gay rights.
"How do you help someone, how do you claim to help someone when you're basically slapping them down and saying, you're less than, you're unequal?" she asked.
The church only provided the original release when asked for clarification. No other questions were answered. The church had a successful opening weekend with more than 1,500 people attending Sunday service. The church hopes to partner with AIDS-related groups in Seattle.
Controversial comments made in a church news release are marring a brand new church location rising from the ashes of an old property at 5th Avenue and Marion Street in Seattle.
Mars Hill left its Belltown location late last year to make way for the new downtown location. But in a press release about the location, the church said:
"Also, being closer to Capitol Hill is a blessing as we are serving and ministering to those who are infected with AIDS on the hill."
Mars Hill has an openly strong stance against allowing gay members in the church. The release set off a firestorm online and in the alternative press, including The Stranger.
Sarah Toce with Social Outreach Seattle says she appreciates the church trying to reach out to her community, but she doesn't like what the press release implied and she doesn't like the church's opinion on gay rights.
"How do you help someone, how do you claim to help someone when you're basically slapping them down and saying, you're less than, you're unequal?" she asked.
The church only provided the original release when asked for clarification. No other questions were answered. The church had a successful opening weekend with more than 1,500 people attending Sunday service. The church hopes to partner with AIDS-related groups in Seattle.
"Mars Hill has an openly strong stance against allowing gay members in the church." As a Christian who holds the Biblical view of homosexuality, not allowing homosexuals to attend services is going directly against what Christ wants His church to do. The church is meant to be a place where sinners can come and hear the Good News of Jesus Christ. It is not meant to exclude anyone from hearing the Gospel.
 @theprodigal *standing ovation*
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Well said, sir.Â
@theprodigal I'm sure they would welcome them to attend, but not become members.
@personwithwords "I'm sure they would welcome them to attend, but not become members."Â That is something we would have to ask the church; however, if Mars Hill is restricting membership based on whether or not a person commits a sin, they need to not have an official membership.
 @personwithwords @theprodigal I'm sure they would also welcome their monetary donations. However, let's get some of this straight though, Christ never spoke of or condemned homosexuality. Secondly, the portions that reflected any conversation about homosexuality either had to do with town residents trying to rape angels (Sodom and Gomorrah) or were referring to "wasting the seed" which mostly referred to using your seed for something other than procreation because they had dwindling populations.Â
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Believe what you will, but if you ask me, a Christian that puts words in the mouth of Jesus, that he never uttered, isn't following in his steps.Â
 @theprodigal Show me where Christ addresses a definition of marriage.
@pdxd @personwithwords Christ may have never directly addressed the issue of homosexuality because those who were trying to trap Him (the doctors of the law, etc., knew the Torah VERY well) never asked Him about it; however, when Christ defined marriage as between one man and one woman, He indirectly addressed the issue of homosexuality.
The church is certainly entitled to provide help to those in need. However, it's no secret that gay and lesbian residents for a high percentage of the residents in the Capitol Hill area of Seattle. It does leave me wondering if the church is going to pick and choose who they "minister" to. Will they minister to straight-black women infected with AIDS but not white gay men? Will they ask you to attend their services or "cure the gay" therapy to receive their ministering?Â
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Perhaps the church should follow through with partnering with AIDS-related groups in Seattle, to find out how they can help, without the help being either prejudiced or with "strings-attached"Â As I said, they are entitled to providing help, regardless, but it may be more widely accepted as "help" if it's not prejudicial or coming attached with strings.
So.... a LBGT group got offended by what a church flyer implied?
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How.... unprecidented.Â
 @MarkKpic How's that any different than a church getting offended by what gays do?
 @pdxd Point taken.Â
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I'm reminded of the words of Susan Anthony; "I mistrust those who know so well what it is that God would have them do. For I find, more often than not, it is exactly what they would have done anyway."
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The thing that I'm reacting to, specifically, is the comment:Â
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"Sarah Toce with Social Outreach Seattle says she appreciates the church trying to reach out to her community, but she doesn't like what the press release implied and she doesn't like the church's opinion on gay rights."
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My suspicion is that you could drop the 'what the press release implied' and not lose factual content.Â
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I consider myself to be a Christian. I recognize that homosexuality is a sin. I also recognize that I am a sinner. There is no ranking of sin. Sin is sin. My sinful acts are no more or less abhorrent to Christ than those of a homosexual. Â Â
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I find groups like the westboro baptists to be more offensive to me, to my faith and to (IMO) Christ as any LBGT individual who I have ever known. I keep going back to John 4, and the story about Christ and the samaritan woman. He, at no time, condemned her, shamed her, belittled her or displayed any sort of disrespect towards her. Yet, she openly admitted that she was a sinner. I am called as a follower of Christ to edify, encourage and build up people. I am told that it is not my place to pass judgement upon others.Â
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At the same time, by simply stating that homosexuality is a sin, or that it is an abomination before God, I may very well offend some people. That is unfortunate, but it is also a statement of fact. It is supported by the Bible. (Rom 1:18-32, Lev 18:22). From there, it is up to the sinner to choose their path. If the truth is offensive to someone, that is not the fault of the person speaking it. The truth is the truth. Just as if I state that the sky is blue, and someone finds that truth offensive.Â
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But, again, beyond that truth, I am not the one to judge or condemn someones actions. I am called to edify and encourage fellow believers and non-believers the same. Because, in the end, I am no better in Gods eyes than they are (Rom 3:23)
 @pdxd  @MarkKpic Hmmm.... Your post raises one of the most  basic of  theological paradox. Is 'sin' decided by Man (through interpretation of Biblical teachings), or by God? Since no one other than God has been around since the translation from Koeing Greek became the King James version, it's impossible to know for certain what of the modern bible is founded in direct translation, and what has been lost or 'modified' for the sake of translation.Â
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That discussion is best had with someone much better versed in Biblical history and theology than I.Â
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Again, I have no proverbial 'cross to bear' in the whole homosexuality debate. Â I have friends who agree with my (above stated) opinions, and I have some who are vehemently opposed. Ultimately, the whole of the debate is between them (LBGT) and God.Â
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Unfortunately, the (as I refer to them) 'absolutists' on BOTH sides of the debate refuse to even try. Instead, focusing as much on slander and venomous diatribes as they do on communication. Which is what I found so ironic about the articles comment. It's not even the words of the statement anymore that are inciting the conflict, it's the 'implication' of them.Â
 @MarkKpic You have many valid points, many of which I respect. Do we really need a church to preach about what they consider to be sin based on the interpretation of the gospels? Wouldn't it be more Christ-like to study and interpret the teachings of the gospel and reflect on it, and determine the sin on your own, rather than have someone who is telling you what to consider a sin? I was raised in a conservative Christian faith. Over the past decade, I haven't really considered myself "Christian" but I have come to the realization that each one of use has a responsibility to live our own lives, with the knowledge and understanding that based on our own actions, we may experience consequences whether while on earth, or perhaps in the afterlife.
"Also, being closer to Capitol Hill is a blessing as we are serving and ministering to those who are infected with AIDS on the hill." That is outstanding!!!
Let me see ... Ms. Toce is "offended" becasue the church released a statement after being asked for clarification that they feel it's a blessing to be "serving and ministering to those infected with AIDS"? That isn't the reason that she opposes this church. She is being dishonest and intolerant and she should be ashamed.
..... "the church had a successful opening week-end". Whoa, are we really reading a news release about a church or is this is some form of press release about a for profit business?
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Bottom line - if they are reaching out to anyone and everyone - that's a good thing. Not really sure any church is a "successful" entity - only God KNOWS that. Certainly Catholic parishes in or near Capitol Hill in Seattle - are they "successful" or not. Based on what criteria of ethics and inclusivity and adherence to the love God has for us all.... hmmmmm - anyone's guess.Â
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Lest we judge, people - Mars Hill is as welcome and deserving of preaching God's word - as the Catholic Church. Or the Presbyterian Church or the Mormon church or the Church or Christ.Â
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 @englishdaisy The Catholic parish near Capitol Hill in Seattle is the beautiful St. James Cathedral. And if attendance is any measure, it is highly successful among Seattle parishes. Also of note, the Jesuit-run Seattle University is on Capitol Hill. Though we cannot know God's mind, if there even is a God, we can conclude that the Catholic Church has succeeded in establishing a major presence on Capitol Hill.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.