Exploding targets under scrutiny after devastating fire

WENATCHEE, Wash. (AP) - While dozens of wildfires were burning out of control in north central Washington last summer, two people decided to do some target shooting in the dry, grassy hills above Alta Lake. They set up an exploding target and fired at it, causing a loud boom and a huge smoke-like cloud.
The outing resulted in the Goat Fire, which would burn 73,378 acres, the Wenatchee World reported.
U.S. Forest Service officials have not said whether their investigators believe the fire was caused by the target or a bullet striking something else.
There's plenty of disagreement about whether targets that explode can start fires. Some think they're dangerous and should be banned; others say they're no danger.
But as exploding targets become more popular they are more often linked to wildfires. The devices have been blamed for starting at least two dozen fires across the West last summer, the newspaper reported.
Fire officials last summer said that two other smaller fires in north central Washington - a 120-acre blaze near Entiat and a quarter-acre fire near Cashmere - were started by people shooting at exploding targets.
Kelsey Hilderbrand, owner of High Mountain Hunting Supply in Wenatchee, sells one brand of exploding targets, Tannerite, for between $4.95 and $9 apiece.
"They're very popular, and they're a lot of fun," he said, adding that he has used them and that the targets have never started a fire.
"They are not a heat-related explosion, so there's no way to have an ignition-based system," Hilderbrand told the Wenatchee World
Others disagree.
"There's no question they start fires," said Bill Gabbert, a former wildland firefighter and fire investigator in Southern California who produces the online magazine, Wildfire Today.
Gabbert believes they are a growing danger because more and more people are starting to use them.
"I think we need to figure out a way to ban the use of exploding target," he said, adding, "I'm convinced they are too dangerous to use."
Exploding targets are a mixture of an oxidizer - usually ammonium nitrate - and a fuel, such as aluminum.
The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives does not regulate the sale and distribution of these powder chemicals, even when they're sold as kits designed to become explosives, according to its May 2012 newsletter.
Once mixed, someone must have a federal explosives permit to transport them, the newspaper reported. Sportsmen generally mix them onsite before using them as targets.
In Washington state, exploding targets are illegal to use on state land, said Larry Raedel, chief of law enforcement for the state Department of Natural Resources.
"We don't allow any explosive or incendiary devices," he said, including Tannerite, an exploding target which, its manufacturers claim, does not ignite fires.
The question isn't so simple on federal lands.
"We don't have anything that specifically addresses explosive ammunition," said Tom Knappenberger, regional spokesman for the U.S. Forest Service.
In California, Sgt. Bob Epps, bomb squad commander for the Riverside County Sheriff's hazardous device team, said his officers are charging businesses and sportsmen for possession of these chemicals, even unmixed.
Retail stores in his county have been told they have 30 days to return their inventory of binary explosives, or they can be charged with a felony under California law that bans the devices.
"We understand that this has not been tightly regulated," he told the newspaper.
Epps said he believes the explosives could cause serious injury, although he hasn't had any incidents in his jurisdiction.
John Maclean, who has written several books on fatal wildfires, said he's concerned about the danger that exploding targets pose to firefighters.
In northeastern Pennsylvania, two game commissioners were investigating a fire caused by exploding targets when an unexploded target suddenly exploded. They checked into a local hospital with temporary blindness and hearing loss, and went back to work the next day, the Wenatchee World reported.
"It's a growing problem, and it's going to get worse," Maclean said.
Local sportsmen say the real issue should focus on whether people are acting recklessly. Hilderbrand said the issue rests with the individual responsibility of the target shooter.
The outing resulted in the Goat Fire, which would burn 73,378 acres, the Wenatchee World reported.
U.S. Forest Service officials have not said whether their investigators believe the fire was caused by the target or a bullet striking something else.
There's plenty of disagreement about whether targets that explode can start fires. Some think they're dangerous and should be banned; others say they're no danger.
But as exploding targets become more popular they are more often linked to wildfires. The devices have been blamed for starting at least two dozen fires across the West last summer, the newspaper reported.
Fire officials last summer said that two other smaller fires in north central Washington - a 120-acre blaze near Entiat and a quarter-acre fire near Cashmere - were started by people shooting at exploding targets.
Kelsey Hilderbrand, owner of High Mountain Hunting Supply in Wenatchee, sells one brand of exploding targets, Tannerite, for between $4.95 and $9 apiece.
"They're very popular, and they're a lot of fun," he said, adding that he has used them and that the targets have never started a fire.
"They are not a heat-related explosion, so there's no way to have an ignition-based system," Hilderbrand told the Wenatchee World
Others disagree.
"There's no question they start fires," said Bill Gabbert, a former wildland firefighter and fire investigator in Southern California who produces the online magazine, Wildfire Today.
Gabbert believes they are a growing danger because more and more people are starting to use them.
"I think we need to figure out a way to ban the use of exploding target," he said, adding, "I'm convinced they are too dangerous to use."
Exploding targets are a mixture of an oxidizer - usually ammonium nitrate - and a fuel, such as aluminum.
The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives does not regulate the sale and distribution of these powder chemicals, even when they're sold as kits designed to become explosives, according to its May 2012 newsletter.
Once mixed, someone must have a federal explosives permit to transport them, the newspaper reported. Sportsmen generally mix them onsite before using them as targets.
In Washington state, exploding targets are illegal to use on state land, said Larry Raedel, chief of law enforcement for the state Department of Natural Resources.
"We don't allow any explosive or incendiary devices," he said, including Tannerite, an exploding target which, its manufacturers claim, does not ignite fires.
The question isn't so simple on federal lands.
"We don't have anything that specifically addresses explosive ammunition," said Tom Knappenberger, regional spokesman for the U.S. Forest Service.
In California, Sgt. Bob Epps, bomb squad commander for the Riverside County Sheriff's hazardous device team, said his officers are charging businesses and sportsmen for possession of these chemicals, even unmixed.
Retail stores in his county have been told they have 30 days to return their inventory of binary explosives, or they can be charged with a felony under California law that bans the devices.
"We understand that this has not been tightly regulated," he told the newspaper.
Epps said he believes the explosives could cause serious injury, although he hasn't had any incidents in his jurisdiction.
John Maclean, who has written several books on fatal wildfires, said he's concerned about the danger that exploding targets pose to firefighters.
In northeastern Pennsylvania, two game commissioners were investigating a fire caused by exploding targets when an unexploded target suddenly exploded. They checked into a local hospital with temporary blindness and hearing loss, and went back to work the next day, the Wenatchee World reported.
"It's a growing problem, and it's going to get worse," Maclean said.
Local sportsmen say the real issue should focus on whether people are acting recklessly. Hilderbrand said the issue rests with the individual responsibility of the target shooter.
Enter more government regulation.
People, use your heads so the government doesn't have to get involved.Â
Sheesh.
Does he sell any targets that after being hit they put out a fire??
Oh .. just ones that start fires OK...
My money's on tracer ammunition, not Tannerite. Tracers will easily start a fire, but many don't realize it.
Hey, if you have a scanner turn it on. A friend just reported there's been a shooting at a Portland hospital. One dead, possibly the shooter. ?
@Playanekes "possibly the shooter"? -- we can only hope.
@badcat @Playanekes Cops got him. Sounds like it was near the parking area.
Holy hell. I just realized you can legally own FIFTY... FIVE ZERO...pounds of gunpowder. I thought it was just five pounds.
HEHEHhehhmmhehehmheh... yes!!
I guess I'm not a felon after all. God bless America.
@Playanekes  Have you ever seen the episode where Bugs tricks the Idiotic gun nut into blowing himself up? No? Ok, nevermind, just lay a trail of gunpowder around your house and back into the room where you're hunkering down to fend off the gub'mint .... when you hear a noise outside, throw a lighted match out the window and plug your ears ........ and don't forget to let us all know what happens!!! =D
@badcat @Playanekes The gunpowder won't do anything but flame up and make a smoke cloud unless it's contained in something. I've got a couple of old Vietnam-era smoke grenades if I want to do that.
I love exploding targets. I was given a bunch for Christmas by my best buddy and they are a blast to shoot. If you don't hit it dead center it won't explode. Making one explode shows you are right on target.Â
Be wise, don't do anywhere you can cause a fire. That's just common sense.
@The Resistance A friend of mine found a case of .22 -tracer- at a gun show in Salem. Man, that was fun!
I bought two pounds of thermite at a gun show once. I can cause a fire anywhere. *cackles with maniacal glee*
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@Dr. Rawdog @Playanekes @The Resistance Correct. But you have to have something to compare your product with, and, it's difficult to acquire powdered aluminum now.
You can't anymore, pretty much. They used to sell it a Rodda to add to paint for metal flake, but I'm pretty sure they switched solely to zinc.
Powdered zinc and iron oxide produces the same sort of reaction, it's just purplish in color and not quite as hot. We burned through a wheelbarrow like something out of an Alien movie with conventional thermite, but the zinc preparation didn't make as big of a hole and took more material.
Also, the commercial preparation has magnesium in it which helps get it up to temperature. You can't just light thermite with a match.
The easiest way to produce iron oxide powder is to burn steel wool with a torch.
Water balloons work pretty nice when shot and don't cost $5 each.
@RalphCramden Really- what happened to the standard weapon demostration of blasting of watermelons on TV shows or is not pc any more
@Bert
To big, too heavy, and too expensive.
@RalphCramden @Bert @ Winco the personal ones can go for 2 dolla
Hopefully, those engaged in shooting exploding targets during extremely dry conditions perished in the fire.
Some people are just too stupid to live.
@Mikey Learn how these types of things work before trying to speak your feeble little mind. The chemical reaction creates water vapor. No flames whatsoever.
This returns to the point of morons with the items in question being to blame, rather than the items themselves. Exploding targets are a lot of fun and should be very safe if in the hands of responsible adults. I blame Liberal Hollywood for creating morons like this.Â
@Kraut Seriously, I had no idea one could go out and buy exploding targets. This is the first I'd heard of such a thing.
Today you can blame the Associated Press for cluing me in. We always just used old propane bottles.
@Playanekes You can buy the raw materials and mix your own for way less. They are fun to shoot, most of my friends bring them up when we go. I don't really care to much for them.
Couldn't make your gun quota so you had to come up with this? It looks like "Hit and runs" are proving our point. It isn't guns but people.
@lee986321 Yes, but as an admittedly stupid person you must agree, that guns make it much easier for stupid people to do stupid things. I mean, any idiot like you could take a lighter and some gasoline and deliberately go start a forest fire .... but if someone gave you an exploding target and a gun, you'd be much more likely to "accidentally" start a forest fire because you're just too stupid to know that explosives + dry grass = fire. Yes/no?
@badcat This is what I also love, people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about trying to tell other people not to do things. Kitty try doing some research for once in your life before speaking. The answer to your uninformed question in NO. These explosives + dry grass = wet grass.
lol, those exploding targets, which are tannerite, do not create any heat when they explode! but hey lets see what else we can find to ban in this not so free country of ours! KATU cracks me up! why does this news station just come out with a article that says that they do not support the 2nd amendment of our constitution instead of trying to find any story they can to show their stance?
OK. I forget. Which Amendment is it now that gives us the right to blow things up and start forest fires?
@Mechanic Which ever one allows you to have matches, cigarettes or cigarette lighters.
Fool..
@Mechanic what happens if you don't put a campfire out properly or have a raging fire when camping in the woods? oh ya we would blame the individual and not the matches! This story is just trying to put all gun owners in a bad light just because of the poor decisions of a few! If you don't want any rights, then why don't you move to a country where you have fewer rights instead of trying to diminish ours!
Somehow I knew if they looked hard and long enough they could come up with a daily anti-gun story. But gee, from last summer?
@jpk Yeah, that is far reaching.
Are these more fun than propane tanks?
The gun nuts never care about anything except their own entertainment and violent fetishes, why in the world would anyone expect them to care about tens of thousands of acres of woods burning down? Just another minor casualty in their never-ending pursuit of "expressing" their second ammendment rights, which always come before everyone else's rights to anything.
@badcat --- I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Unfortunately I can't own napalm so I have to settle for exploding targets and do so responsibly. Second Amendment rights enable me to shoot exploding targets that are legal with the BATFE. Most people don't cause fires with these targets nor do they go on murderous rampages. So get over it.
There are more hit and run murder stories this week in the news than guns stories. The lamestream media has do something to keep the pot stirred up. Hummmm....cars don't kill people, murderous drivers do.
@badcat Perhaps you can tell us the percentage of forest fires caused by exploding targets compared to cigarettes, matches, fireworks or untended campfires.
Then we'll try to figure out why you're flipping out about this and not arson- or cigarette-caused fires.
Probably because your hoplophobia causes you to have narrow vision and not care about the vast majority of man-caused forest fires, so you can get a dig in on "gun nuts."
Shallow, transparent, statistically flawed and totally ridiculous. Also, typical of the anti-gun (and anti-pot) lobbies.Â
@PlayanekesI didn't realize this was a contest for "let's ban the item that causes the most fires". By that logic and your love of statistics, more kids die in automobile accidents than from alcohol so let's raise the driving age to 21 and lower the drinking age to 12.Â
I'm just pointing out that most gun nuts are irresponsible and selfish, and it doesn't surprise me that none are willing to even consider if this is a problem because no gun nut ever thinks there are any problems with weapons or explosives of any kind. They just like to blow things up and blow holes in things and nothing is going to get in the way of the fetish. It's true. Sorry if you don't like to hear it. This has nothing to do with cigarettes, hammers, drunk drivers or campfires. You just try as hard as you can to distract from the fact that you and your fellow nuts are burning down forests because no gun owner ever takes responsibility when things go wrong. Just like when people accidentally shoot someone "the gun just went off" -- apparently the only time anyone actually fires a gun is when a criminal pulls the trigger. The rest of the time the gunfire, and its consequences, just happen, and no one is allowed to even consider making changes to the availability of the "innocent" guns and explosives to the "innocent" gun nuts, because no one is ever responsible for anything. Except the criminals of course, who are going to get guns anyway, so let's not regulate anything and just "pray" we don't get shot. Ya-hoo.
@Jeepers ---- extra likes.
@badcat@Playanekes "I didn't realize this was a contest for "let's ban the item that causes the most fires".
Oh, hell no it's not. This is a contest to ban anything having to do with guns however misguided or trivial. It's not about solving problems, it's about the war on guns.
Do you happen to know what happens when you shoot one of these "exploding" targets, or are you just flapping your butt about... "the gun just went off"Â WTF does that epic flail have to do with exploding targets and forest fires?!
When you start making some sort of sense instead of calling people names, I'll respect you. Until then, I'LL JUST KEEP SHOOTING PROPANE BOTTLES!!!
@badcat I'm a gun nut. My main problem is that most people who speak against my hobbies all have one thing in common. Like you they just have no idea about what it is they're speaking about. You think this stuff has the same strength as C4 or something. Why don't you just stay inside and stick to your hobby of dressing up your cats in doll clothes....
@badcat Who shat in your cereal this morning?
Local sportsmen say the real issue should focus on whether people are acting recklessly. Hilderbrand said the issue rests with the individual responsibility of the target shooter.
If they cause fires from cigarettes, untended campfires, or exploding targets...charge them. However getting some of the reckless ones to pay for the damage will never happen. The reckless idiots out there ruin it for everyone actually. I have seen the damage to road signs by idiots. Or noticed the trash left behind of numerous broken bottles, shot up cans etc.
How about punishing the few idiots for their irresponsible behavior, rather than pushing for a ban that mostly affects responsible folks? I don't use them myself, but I've seen Tannerite targets explode in person - they do not seem to actually make a fireball or anything, just a boom and smoke. Maybe people are making their own with something more flammable, or altering them in some way.  Russian steel jacketed ammo used in rocky terrain is far more of a fire hazard than Tannerite IMO.
Yup, they're fun...... Try and ban them!!!!! They uhhhhhh start fires or something. Don't mind that the main byproduct of this type of explosion is water vapor.
@Jeepers So these could be used to fight fires?
@Bert actually yeah, sadly enough.
Why sad. Seems like a way to fight fires. Make them bigger and do pin point bombing of fires instead of the blanket water drops
They could have started the same fire with a cigarette, Oregon-legal firework or a dropped match. But, hey, let's find a way to turn this into a gun thing too.