Grand jury finds officers justified in fatally shooting Iraq War vet
PORTLAND, Ore. – A grand jury has determined that police were justified in using deadly force against a man shot and killed on the top deck of a parking garage near the Lloyd Center, the Multnomah County District attorney's office said Friday.
Police said 32-year-old Santiago Cisneros III, an Iraq War veteran, fired a shotgun at them at about 10:45 p.m. Monday March 4 at the parking garage at Northeast 7th Avenue and Lloyd Boulevard. Officers returned fire, hitting Cisneros. He later died at the hospital.
Cisneros battled post-traumatic stress disorder after he returned from Iraq and had trouble adjusting to civilian life.
The officers who shot Cisneros were Officer Brad Kula, a 10-year veteran, and Officer Michele Boer, a four-year veteran. Both officers were placed on paid administrative leave, which is standard policy in an officer-involved shooting.
In the two days before he was killed, Cisneros had been at a small City Hall protest meant to bring attention to homeless issues.
No surprise that there were no criminal charges against the cops because the Grand Jury never indicts even when there is overwhelming evidence of misconduct.
The real surprise is when the cops don't shoot somebody and take them into custody without beating them senseless first.....I mean it will be a real surprise if that ever happens.
Grand Jury members are always the WEALTHY & WELL-CONNECTED to Government types....They like their monthly checks coming in and want to keep it that way....
@August100Â ~ Â Well, August100, I am neither wealthy (at least in terms of money) nor in government "connections"... but if I were either or both of those, I am VERY sure that I would have MANY more productive things with which to occupy myself than sitting on a grand jury... Â There is nothing wrong with such service, but with enough money and the right connections, I could find better ways to serve my community and my country...Â
@August100Â My god, take your medication and get off the computer. You're insane.
Homeless Veterans NEED:
IMMEDIATE REAL HOUSING, with keys to locking doors, leases in their names, and PRIVACY.
IMMEDIATE REALÂ TRAINING, with career degree & trade certifications.
IMMEDIATE LIVING-WAGE JOBS that will pay for their housing & allow them to THRIVE!
No MORE VA Programs after VA Programs after MORE VA PROGRAMS, after EVEN MORE VA PROGRAM....AND WHEN FINISHED with all the VA programs...STILL HOMELESS, UNTRAINED, and UNEMPLOYABLE.
@August100Â Whether or not I disagree with your first comment, I completely 100% agree with your second comment. Amen, brother/sister.
The Portland VA sends the homeless veterans to TPI, Inc; Central City Concern, and Salvation Army to be packed-in their PRISON-LIKE SHELTERS with all the STREET-GUTTER JUNKIES, RELEASED CHILD MOLESTERS, MURDERERS & RAPISTS, CRACK & METH-HEAD, and AIDS-INFECTED STREET HUSTLERS.....
ALL AT A COST of TEN-TIMES what a private studio apartment would cost!
You'd be UPSET A LITTLE too!
This is the VA's ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL Treatment Program:
1) Label the veterans CRAZY, ADDICTED, and ALCOHOLIC FOR LIFE in their medical records.
2) Place them in a JAMMED-PACKED PRISON-LIKE & ALL-CONTROLLING Shelter with bunk-beds.
3) Prescribe HANDFULS OF MEDS that ARE KNOWN NOT TO WORK.
4) Require Never-Ending "How do you Feel?" Group Therapy nonsense.
5) Mandate the veteran convert to the 12-Step religious AA/NA cults OR they get thrown to the street-gutters.
6) Masquerade SORTING CLOTHES at GOODWILL as "Job Training"
7) Sent veterans VA "DISABILITY CLAIM DENIED" Letters to the veteran's shelter address.
8) Veteran ENDS-UP on the STREETS HOMELESS and more insane/disrtressed than EVER BEFORE........GO BACK TO #1.....
@August100Â Your post is ridiculous.
@lumberghfukder @August100 No, I don't think so.  I think he is right on point here.
@Muttley @lumberghfukder
Actually, he's completely full of crap. Â But he's got some pretty profound mental health issues, so I tend to ignore him rather than engage.
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@August100Â So, you think the VA drove him "absolutely insane"?
@lumberghfukder @August100 I know sane people who are very, very, very frustrated with the VA. I also know folks who get acute care from the VA hospital (specifically, the HOSPITAL), and they are very pleased with their care. But one does not imply the other.
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@August100 @lumberghfukder That's an absolutely insane claim.  Good luck out there!!!
To say the man was unstable is an understatement. Â Unfortunately, he'd bonded with the homeless of the city who have been kicked around by the PPB for ages AND he saw the PPB as cancer. Â RIPÂ
thanks war pigs!
Of course they were justified. But I bet they don't feel great about it. It's a sad story all the way around. R.I.P. soldier.
@brautigan Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of the PPB, but the circumstances (as they were presented to us) suggest that he tried to kill those two police officers
There is only one person to blame...the Commander In Chief. All errors point to him and his lack of attention to everything in our country. But I'm glad he got hit Brackets publicized again this year.Â
@GregG304th Please stop flamebaiting on this forum
@GregG304thÂ
So...um, you must be talking about the guy who started a war in Afghanistan, walked away from it for several years to start another war with Iraq, and cut the VA's budget, right? Â Because if anyone's going to get the blame for failing our soldiers, it's going to be the guy who sends them into war and doesn't provide them support. Â Or are you just a partisan hack using the death of a soldier to score cheap points on President Obama? Â Nah, nobody's that big a d-bag, are they?
@Diogenes @GregG304th And we are still in afganistan and gitmo still open. He did have both houses at his command also
@lumberghfukder @brautigan @tally Obama would disagree with you. He wants at least a full third term
@lumberghfukder @brautigan @tally ~ 10 years..???  Oh puh-leeze..!  Some of them do MORE than enough damage in 4 or 8 years..!
@brautigan @tally A presidential term should be 10 years long.  No re-election.
@tally So you aren't for Gitmo or the war in Afghanistan? Did you always feel that way? I bet not... You're for what you're told to be for. I was against both when Bush was in office, and I'm against them both now.  Obama is definitely a foreign policy failure because he has allowed himself to get locked into Bush's retarded conflicts.
The VA has and does have its people out in the streets of Portland. Just not enough of them to go around. Surely this mans family contacted someone in the helping system. Was an in person contact made with this Vet?
My guess is as good as yours.....
@Marine1968Â I like that the VA has a HUGE presence at the gun shows.
@Marine1968 ~  I think the VA probably does what it can, given its limited resources...  but I also  think our government needs to cease sending foreign aid to those countries that seem to hate us in spite of whatever we try to do for them...  Take that saved money and put it towards more staffing, better staff training, better facilities  ~ whatever it is that is needed in order to provide effective help for our vets...  We're sending these men and women overseas for these (questionable) wars... they come home wounded, stressed out, and so on... and they can't get help to rebuild their civilian lives and regain their mental health...
We seem to do better on the "physical" side; treating their physical injuries, rehab and such... but the mental part of it seems to get overlooked... Â We can - and MUST - do better than that...
@margay1Â @Marine1968Â
I'm a VA employee who works in mental health. Â What did you want to know?
@Sentry Seriush @DiogenesÂ
Did you just call Veterans "weak nutballs?"
@August100Â ~ Â August100, you raise some valid points in re housing, job training, and living-wage jobs.. These are things that we all need.
Given the current state of our economy and unemployment, how do you propose to deal with these issues for our veterans..? Â How do we pay for the apartments that you want the unemployed vets to have (including the utilities, etc)..? Â And where do the living-wage jobs come from, given that we have a shortage of such jobs right now, even for educated / well-trained civilians..? Â Â
I'm not slamming your comments; Â I'm asking legitimate questions... We don't need more negativity; we need to start working towards positive ANSWERS. Â Do you have some workable ideas..? Â Â
Maybe he didn't NEED DRUGS & THERAPY SESSIONS; seems his concern WAS BEING HOMELESS & UNEMPLOYED!; 100% ignored & dismissed by the VA!
Prison-like shelters ARE NOT HOUSING, and mopping pee off VA hospital floors IS NOT JOB TRAINING!@Diogenes @margay1 @Marine1968 ~  Thank you for a thoughtful and helpful response, Diogenes...  It's a lot to think about, but I believe it's something we all NEED to think about - ESPECIALLY  our elected lawmakers..!  Â
I also think that we-the-voters need to start putting people into elected positions who will think LESS about "feeding the corporate giants" and giving away "free" stuff (read: taxpayer-funded) in exchange for votes... and MORE about restoring / maintaining our country's infrastructure and economy, and looking after the well-being of the men and women that we have asked to risk life and limb in these senseless political conflicts we call "wars". Â Â
@Diogenes Good job security as these weak nutballs who voulenteerd to make big pharma and halliberry rich! they fight for my freedumb!
@margay1 @Diogenes @Marine1968Â
Reintegration. Â The VA is very, very good at mental healthcare. Â We have a huge and dedicated staff who are doing an amazing job of putting these kids back together. Â But we've got kids like this Cisneros fellow who simply can't find their way back from the war, no matter how many therapy sessions they sit in, no matter how many drugs they're on.
The truth is, the training methods the Pentagon concocted to turn these kids into killers isn't reversible. Â Once you flip that switch, there's going to be a big chunk of the returning Veterans who will need lifelong support. Â Speaking as a Veteran with PTSD, I can tell you the VA is doing what they can, but there's just no cure for the condition, and it can be very, very hard to live with.
So, if I had my wish, I'd create a division in the VA that's dedicated to making Veterans into civilians, to include mental health case management, vocational rehabilitation, educational assistance, disability claim service, and most important of all, a place like your dad's woodshop at the local Senior Center where Veterans can gather and let their guard down for a little while before heading back into a world that just doesn't understand them. Â That's what I would do.
@Diogenes @margay1 @Marine1968 ~  Hi Diogenes... OK, what in your opinion, are the priority things we need to do to help these vets who are coming home so badly damaged; not only physically, but mentally / emotionally..?  If we could somehow "zap up" all the money the VA needed, what do you think should be done first... hire more staff... build more facilities (perhaps smaller, but more neighborhood clinics, making it easier for people to get to)... other...?
Where do you see the greatest immediate need..? Â
My dad suffered from PTSD; they called it "battle fatigue" in WW-II... 40+ years after the war was over, he still had nightmares... he got a lot of comfort from the other vets that he was able to talk to in the woodshop at our local Senior Center... those men weren't counselors or anything, but they shared common experiences, so they understood the mental issues... they seemed to be able to help each other a lot...
Just not enough support for our vets suffering with PTSD. I don't agree with him brandishing a gun towards the officers, either.Â
Just sad...
@washcomom There's plenty of support actually, they just need to take it. There is in fact more support for OIF/OEF then there is for all other veterans.
@washcomom I have no sadness only love for the lord. if these psychos didn't get it from Iraq *wink* they would get it from something else!
@washcomom Actually, the gov. finally realized that and made funds available to help. Housing and training for new jobs and placement as well. I know that because of I have a few decent rental places and I am working with agencies supporting the VA's. For many it is too late though, at least some effort is showing up to support the vets after they served our country.
@washcomom Well said.....
Maybe now we will know what all the homeless issues are? Lower the standards for camp dignity eligibility?
@tally Dignity Village IS NOT FOR HOMELESS PEOPLE; it has morphed into a CLIQUE OF RADICALS who get FREE CHECKS EVERY MONTH & have lots of time to "USE THE HOMELESS" card to GET MORE FREE STUFF....
The REAL HOMELESS of Portland are not welcomed in Dignity Village, and haven't been for years.....
I hope the Grand Jury didn't find any fault with the officers. Shooting at cops is a clear indication for use of deadly force.Â
@RalphCramden ~  So true, Ralph... but it still makes me feel sad... Somehow, we have to find a better way to help our returning vets... what we're doing / not doing is not working...Â
@margay1
I would prefer to just get out. We should never have gone there in the first place. No one has ever been able to subdue Afghanistan. Iraq was another mistake.
Personally I think the military needs to find better ways of screening the troops before they go to war. That would be the second best option to staying out of war.
Some folks cannot handle death and destruction. I had a brand new coworker who saw the shot up bodies of a multiple murder and a month later quit. Some folks have no idea what they are getting into when they sign up.
@faith @margay1Â
I agree. Wars will never end. There will always be some person with a huge ego who will take over a large segment of the population and decide to abuse others.
My hope is that with the new technology we can have remote wars when needed so that there won't have to be a lot of troops on the ground.
rs  @margay1 There will be other wars, Ralph. North Korea just looming around the corner. The point here is just to calculate the cost of everything including the cost of  surviving troops, how cruel is that, to join and live a normal, productive life. I'd say, you do not have the numbers all together, than do not start any other war. Ever.
@tally @margay1 @RalphCramden ~  No, not brides... but at least from Afghanistan, we're getting "war pets"... soldiers who are rescuing dogs and cats, bonding with them, and bringing them home... I think that's wonderful... those animals are helping the soldiers stay mentally and emotionally on track, and the soldiers are saving those animals from certain terrible deaths in a country that places no value on their lives.  Â
Small steps, perhaps, in the "big picture", but if we have to be there, at least something good comes out of it...Â
@margay1 @RalphCramden I notice we do not seem to have afganny or Iraq war brides. No blending.
@margay1 @RalphCramden Yes, no more proxy wars!
@RalphCramden @margay1 ~  I agree 100$, Ralph... Both in re needing to get out of these Middle East "conflicts" (or whatever they are), AND the need to do more appropriate screening of our military men/women destined for combat service.  Â
INHO, the last "justified" war we fought was WW-II... We should never have gotten involved in Korea, Vietnam, or any of the subsequent conflicts... Â I have often wondered how much better our country would be today, if we had NOT gotten into all those wars; putting our efforts, instead, into maintaining and improving our own country and working with our allies in peaceful pursuits. Â Â
I'm not "anti-war" when there is genuine need for it, but I think most of the stuff we've gotten into since WW-II has just been power-hungry moves by politicians trying to show how "macho" they are and by corporations making billions off the defense contracts. Â We were warned about the latter by Eisenhower way back in the '50s, but we failed to heed that warning... I think we're paying dearly for that now.
@margay1 @RalphCramden I totally agree...