Mall responds to uproar, says U.S. flags can stay on kiddie train
Update: The Clackamas Town Center posted the following statement both on their Facebook page and on the KATU comment board in response to numerous complaints from folks who were angered over this story.
"We honor, support and respect what the United States flag represents. The actions and letter that were communicated certainly did not convey that. And for this, we apologize. We can see how many were offended. It was never the intent to offend or show any disrespect. The U.S. flag will remain displayed at the kiddie train and in other locations within the mall. We wholeheartedly support those who fight to allow us and everyone else to display the flag. Clackamas Town Center hosts and sponsors events every year that recognize and honor these and other heroes and will continue to do so."
CLACKAMAS, Ore. - A fight over the American flag is brewing at the Clackamas Town Center.
The manager of the children's train at the mall says he's being forced to remove flags that he uses to decorate the train ride.
Why? The mall told him the flags are against policy.
Thomas Phelps said he was floored when he got a letter from mall management telling him that the flags he put on the train a few weeks ago were "unapproved visuals."
That reference didn't sit too well with Phelps, who also happens to be a military veteran.
"That is dedicated to veterans and military, police, firefighters, EMTs - all those people that daily put their lives on the line for us," Phelps said. "That's what it's dedicated to. And if you're going to call that a Christmas decoration or something, then I'm sorry, I don't want to be around you. You're not in my country."
Phelps said he would understand if it was causing a problem but he said nobody has complained - not once.
And he isn't alone in his feelings. Connie Marsden, a local grandmother, told us "It's the United States. That's our flag. We should be proud of it. Not be forced to take it off a little ride for the kids."
The mall did not allow our news camera on its property but a family who took a train ride on Sunday told us they enjoyed the ride and didn't understand why the flags were a problem.
The Clackamas Town Center sent us a written response when we asked for comment. General Manager Dennis Curtis wrote in an e-mail "we honor, appreciate and respect everything the U.S. flag represents."
Still, Phelps said mall management isn't budging and he's prepared to lose his job before he takes down the flags.
"I may be fired, I may be thrown out of the mall, but I am not taking it down," he said.
Once the word got out about what was going on, folks started talking about it not only on the KATU comment board and Facebook page, but across the web. Here's a look at some of what people were saying Sunday evening:
The Clackamas Town Center's own Facebook page became a target as those upset over the flag mandate wrote the mall directly to share their feelings. And not long after our story was published online and aired in a newscast, a Boycott Clackamas Town Center Facebook page was created.
I was at Clackamas Town Center today,(aug 27)And happy to say,"the U.S.Flags are still there!!!STAND YOUR GROUND!Good Job!
Destroying nationalism is a long term goal of the elite.
@Obongo Geddon It is a way to overthrow a government
 @Obongo Geddon Said the opponent of intellectualism.Â
 @Obongo Geddon Or...let the elite do all the dirty work. why be a soldier? why be EMT? After all - the elite (democrat elitists) need EMTs when they have heart attacks yes?Â
I'm glad the mall relented, but it would be nice if someone were to tell the gentlemen with the train that the way he's displaying the flag is disrespectful, and that there are guidelines (US Flag Code) on how to do this properly.
NOTE the mall told him to take off the flag AFTER the U.S.A. bought  China made uniforms for our  teams going to the Olympics. just so SAD!
yeh for common sense
General Growth Properties owns the mall (Clackams Town Center). They also own multiple other properties Pioneer Place, Salem Center, Gateway Mall etc. The train operator does not work for them, it is a privately owned business that pays space rent/tenant fees. The mall management enforces the rules set out in GGP contracts (which was signed by the train owner). The operator of the train does not own the train, he just runs it on their behalf for a paycheck. He also added the flag without asking permission from mall management. There are multiple pages of tenant rules in these contracts even excluding the use of tape or handwritten signs. Boycotting the mall will hurt multiple business owners who can not just "move out", they have lease agreements they are obligated to. The mall proudly displays the American and Oregon flags near the northwest entrance on 82nd Ave. Instead of getting all over the wrong people, write GGP a letter and ask them to overlook this display. Be proud to be an American, use your free speech rights,  just use them to effect change on the right group of people.
@protector you must have went to college and had some fancy book learnin! its the american flag! go serve in the military and maybe youll understand! I bet you voted for Obama!!!
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Stand up, Stand your Ground, and Fight! People that have not severed can not entirely understand. "For those that have served freedom has a flavor that the protected will never know." I don't know who said that, but it is true.Â
The problem with boycotting the mall, is that you are hurting the merchants, not the mall itself. The stores there have no say in what the mall does. The stores that are privately owned are "not allowed" to even put up Christmas decoration, or any holiday  decorations as the mall wants everyone to "look" the same. The mall even tells stores how to display their products. This is not  done to the "big" stores, but the small privately owned.
 @Just me the only reasons people go to the mall is for the free parking and the weather.
@Just me well eventually the buisiness' in the mall will move out because they could do better else where, and the ones that stick around and support the mall owners get what they deserve
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 @franksbeans  @Just Frank, just because they stay does NOT mean they support the mall/owners, it means that they have no choice. Some are on leases that they can't break. Some can't afford to go anywhere else. They are just trying to make a living.
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General Growth Properties owns the mall. The train operator does not work for them, it is a privately owned business that pays space rent/tenant fees. The mall management enforces the rules set out in GGP contracts (which was signed by the train owner). The operator of the train does not own the train, he just runs it on their behalf for a paycheck. Boycotting the mall will hurt multiple business owners who can not just "move out" they have lease agreements they are obligated to. The mall proudly displays the American and Oregon flags near the northwest entrance on 82nd Ave. Instead of getting all over the wrong people, write GGP a letter and ask them to overlook this display. Use your free speech rights, just use them to effect change on the right group of people.
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There's one important sentence missing from the Mall's public response: "The America-hating, liberal communists who penned the original letter have been terminated from their positions and sent back to China where they belong!"
 @Duane Uptain Please tell me you're being sarcastic.
too late now, they already lacked the decency the respect and the common sense to reallize what would happen when word got out of the rediculous unpatriotic policy that led up to this, I still will boycot them just for thinking that banning an American flag would be a good thing!
Dont shop there. If clackamas town center wants to join the weird policies that are springing up all over this country  I say they can join the poverty in this country that  they are creating by no longer supporting America.
@Paul They are letting the flags stay according to the story.
This is where our society is going! Just another reason to be frustrated!
Just out of curiosity, is that an "approved" way to fly the flag?
 @UtterReality Ask Haslips, I'm sure he'll give you a 3 hour presentation on the matter for free.
I knew they were going to change their mind. Any "policy" that says you can not display the American Flag is a bad policy.Â
Obviously I am but one individual, BUT I have and will continue to avoid doing business with companies that disregard, ignore and fail to support the Constitution, Bill of Rights and our veterans. This may seem too extreme but itâs my money and I will not give any of it to entities that refuse to support them.
remove the flag, replace with a mexican and china flag
 @iamright555 yep most stuff sold today was made in china. just check out the tags on the stuff sold at the stores and see why Americans don't have jobs.
if the train says "made in china" maybe it should be. or putting a u.s. flag that was made somewhere else is equally contradictoral
I see the patriotism police are out in force today. I sometimes forget to turn on the light for my flag on the front porch at night. Should I expect a knock at the door soon and extreme disciplinary actions? There are far more pressing matters than how someone chooses to display THEIR flag.
@randomdude For me, apathy is worse than outright disrespect. If you canât be bothered to fly the flag correctly, leave the task to someone who does care.
 @JTesla  @randomdude Oh please, caring enough to fly it is enough. Just don't let it get too tattered. I thought we were all Americans. I guess there are "super" Americans now?
@randomdude When you talk about 'American's attacking other American's' you realize that you are an American attacking other Americanâs for basically no reason right? Take your own advice or at the very least practice what you preach.
 @JTesla  @randomdude It's a shame to see Americans attacking other Americans for basically no reason at all. There are millions of illegals entering this country every year, why don't you focus your efforts on educating them on patriotism?
@randomdude @JTesla Whatever......you don't and likely never will get it. That's a shame.
 @Haslips  @randomdude  @JTesla Oh get off your high horse!
@randomdude @JTesla No, its not enough, and I'll tel you this.....each time I have expressed my concerns/issues to someone over their display of the flag not meeting proper protocol, I have been met with apologies, and promises to correct the issue. Shared knowledge is a great thing.
@randomdude Kind of defeats the purpose to fly it if you canât respect it. We have enough apathy in this country already, why are you celebrating apathy towards our nations flag? Apathy is not a virtue.
@randomdude fogetting it once is not a big deal....I too have been guilty of a nght or two leaving the flag out.....unlit.. or leaving out during a heavy rain storn (I have since purchased and "All-weather" flag.) However, to hang a flag on the side of your house and just leave it there...unlit.....unattended for days/weeks on end...just shows lack of respect. Or putting a 10 foot flag on a 15 foot pole......where the flag hangs within feet of the ground. An yes, I do knock on the door, explain them that I am a vet, and offer them a copy of US flag etiquette. Maybe they just don't know......Mr Phelps as a vet.....should.
 @Haslips  @randomdude Not all vets are that obsessed with the way it's displayed. If it's in tatters, yes replace it.
CTC is gross and the management of that mall clearly has no soul. Good the flags will remain but horrible idea to remove them. Did you want to just ignore the fact that malls are a great piece of Americana? What about pride in country and what the flag stands for. I wonder if the mall manager is even American born.
Who frigin' cares?! Really, this ranks so low on what is really important in the world.Â
 @criticalreason You know its the little things like getting rid of the GREAT AMERICAN FLAG, thats how socialism starts. if those who don't like the way this country was founded, needs to go to some other country like china, north korea, russia, and any other country that is socialist/communist and then tell us how you like it there compared to the GOOD OLD UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.Â
 @criticalreason I care.
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In my life there are few things I can do to implement change. Government does not listen, my vote is pretty worthless since we vote things down and government does it anyhow, I have no say in foreign policy, no say in spending so over all I am pretty powerless.
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On this issue I can make a difference and I voiced my displeasure along with hundreds of others and Clackamas Town Center changed their tune.
 @RalphCramden I suggest you do volunteer work to make yourself feel better about affecting change. It might be a better use of your time and energy than emailing Clackamas Town Center.
 @RalphCramden So if you get so much satisfaction from volunteering why did you previously say you feel powerless and unable to affect change? You are helping people right? I'm confused. You seem to be contradicting yourself Ralph.
 @otto stuthums Things are going well. What user name did you have under IntenseDebate?
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I figured that he was a waste of time. He likes to make a lot of busy work that goes nowhere and I am done with him. He can't see past his own little world and is not a global thinker.
 @RalphCramden Ralph, I wouldn't bother with this one. Critical is one of those who preaches HIS beliefs, but doesn't respect yours, Keep up the good work!
(an old friend from the intense days, just a change in user name!)
PS.... Hope things are going well in your world :)
 @RalphCramden So if you get so much satisfaction from volunteering why did you previously say you feel powerless and unable to affect change? You are helping people right? I'm confused. You seem to be contradicting yourself Ralph.
 @criticalreason I get lots of satisfaction in my volunteer work.
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The agencies I volunteer for are strapped for cash and can't keep up with the regulations from government. We were just told that we can't serve unpackaged food any longer because we don't have a "certified" kitchen. Government would really like to have those that are hungry stay hungry than getting them fed.
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We can't afford to get a "certified" kitchen. So now we just leave food outside and if the hungry folks come by and take some, we just look the other way.
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Still the government has threatened to shut us down. Let them do it. We will just keep leaving food outside since we are not feeding anyone. We are just leaving food outside that gets "stolen" so to speak.
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I can't change that but I did have a part in changing the flag issue at Clackamas Town Center.
 @RalphCramden If you volunteer so much why do you feel so powerless and unable to affect change (your words)? Something doesn't add up Ralph. Either you don't get any satisfaction from your volunteer work or your were lying about feeling unable to affect change? Which one is it?
 @criticalreason I volunteer about 40 hours a month to various organizations. Isn't that enough already?
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Emailing Clackamas Town Center took about 30 seconds and I used about 3 calories doing it.
 @RalphCramden I feel sad for you that you feel so powerless in your life.
 @criticalreason Well thank you for you sympathy.