Marriage may separate same-sex couple after visa not recognized
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Custom officials surprised one of Washington's first legally married same-sex couple by telling them a visa is no good.
In the 17 years Shawn Sanders and Jocelyn Guzman have been together they've spent a lot of time apart. Sanders lives in Alaska and Guzman in Mexico.
So they didn't waste any time tying the knot once Washington legalized same-sex marriage. But after that was when the knot unraveled.
"You know, it puts kind of a kink in your day when you come back from your honeymoon and get caught up in customs, going, what just happened?" said Sanders on Wednesday.
Guzman is in the United States on a tourist visa. Now that she's married, she needs a different visa – a visa that doesn't exist yet.
Customs could have sent her back to Mexico.
"They send people home every single day," said Sanders. "From what the customs people said this is a first even for them. So they weren't even sure what to do."
And Guzman still may be headed back. Since there's no visa for same-sex partners, customs already booked her a flight. She can be in the United States only until March 16.
"I would like for the American government to recognize same-sex marriages," Guzman said. "This is an opportunity for them to say we have rights. And we would like to just live a simple life together."
The pair is looking at their options. They could move to another country but don't want to do that. They're also looking for an attorney who is an expert in immigration, same-sex marriage and bi-national marriage.
I know Shawn and Jocelyn. I'm about as Conservative as they come, and I've always felt that your private life is private. What is happening here is Jocelyn's visa has been canceled, Apparently because they are married, but the Government doesn't recognize the marriage. OK which way is it? Are they married or not. If their marriage is not recognized Jocelyn's original Visa is still valid. If it is then the Government is violating it's own laws!
By the way, I doubt any of the people making snide comments about the way Shawn and Jocelyn are dressed have won any Beauty contests, or have been in any "Fashion shows. They happen to be helping me clean up my property for sale. You don't get a lot of time to get ready for an interview!
Any idea which same sex they are ???
Oh wait the story said ...she ... well that's a stretch
There are existing immigration laws in place to obtain citizenship through marriage to a US citizen. They apply to ANY immigrant/non-citizen that wishes to become a US citizen through marriage.Â
The laws do NOT specify male/female marriage, they apply to ANY legal marriage! So same sex couples must follow the existing laws. They CAN'T expect to be granted special rights not afforded to male/female couples.
They should have followed the existing laws but those take time & money, it seems this couple wants a quick & cheap solution and that would be a "special right."
Additionally, a person doesn't automatically gain citizenship when they marry a US citizen. Thank heaven they don't or millions would exploit that law & enter into marriages with the single purpose of obtaining citizenship. There is a process that must be followed by EVERYONE!Â
Same sex couples getting married should NOT be granted special visa's, special rules, laws etc when one is not a citizen.... They should have to follow the SAME rules as male/female couples. They claim they want the SAME RIGHTS as traditional couples so they need to follow the immigration marriage laws that already exist.Â
http://www.visaus.com/marriage.html
@cwpholder It sounds quite complicated.I know my brother had to jump through hoops in order to get his Thai wife over here.That being said and from what I read,DOMA does throw a wrench into the immigration laws regarding the gay non-citizen spouses of American gay citizens.i hope the SCOTUS does repeal the law for a number of reasons besides this.http://www.marriageequality.org/immigration
@noneofyourbizzness It is a bit complicated and they do make you jump through some hoops but they have good reasons. If it were quick & easy, too many would exploit it.. You would have citizens taking a few bucks & marrying people just so they could get citizenship. That used to happen and that's the reason they made it a longer more complicated process.Â
If it's a genuine marriage, like your brother's than it can be done, it just takes a bit of work.Â
As for your first question, IDK if you were being sarcastic or what but the point is when a person marries a US citizen that person does not automatically become a citizen. There are things that must be done in order for them to gain legal US citizen status.Â
@noneofyourbizznessÂ
Thanks.. I didn't mean it to sound accusatory, sorry if I did... I just wasn't sure.. You know how things go around this site..
I know that a person can gain citizenship via a marriage but it does take some time & effort. They don't have it as difficult as an immigrant that doesn't marry a US citizen though.Â
It used to be easier to gain citizenship through a spouse but people were abusing it and so they made the requirements tougher to make certain it was a genuine marriage.Â
I know that once the immigrant is a citizen after the marriage they retain that status even in the event of a divorce. Â My son was dating a girl from Holland and if they had decided to marry it would've taken some work to get her here in the US legally.Â
Thanks for the info- I will check it out..Â
@cwpholder I'm not trying to be sarcastic.I was wondering what are the benefits of marriage as far as immigration is concerned? I also found this page which I found to be informative..
@cwpholder pdxd I found this to be interesting.Not sure if it can be considered a "back up source however"http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/question-green-card-sponsor-partner-28055.html
However, DOMA prevents the Federal Government from recognizing the marrage between people of the same sex. They can't apply for the visa as married, if the federal government doesn't recognize them as married.
@pdxd The visa/immigration sites say nothing about marriage needing to be of opposite sex couples. They didn't even TRY to follow the law as it exists.Â
If they had applied & followed all the existing laws (this takes a few years) and had been denied, that would be a different story. That's not what they did so it's highly possible they could have followed the law and done this the right & legal way.
Heck, if they had applied BEFORE they got married as ALL other couples (male/female) are required to do, the DOMA issue might have been settled before their case was even approved.Â
They didn't even try to complete the process under the current law so requesting "special rules" without being denied under the current laws is out of line. IMHO
@cwpholder I have a question.My brother who I assume is quite knowledgable in immigration laws has suggested that I go to Thailand and marry his wife's sister in order for her to come over here as well.So what is the purpose of her being married to me if there is any at all?
Is Shawn a man or woman? He/she looks just like a man, but if "Jocelyn" (name change?) is a woman, then Shawn must be a woman, but Jocelyn looks like a man in women's clothing. Oh heck - why can't people be normal?!!!!!
people were normal, then came the gay agenda! nothing is normal anymore!
@djljejm Â
Are they lesbians, or men in women's bodies, or women in men's bodies? Seems to me that lesbians would look and act like typical women and be attracted to the same. Two women, dressing and acting like men, and attracted to each other is just psychologically bizarre by any definition. No one does them any favor by confirming and supporting them in their 'lifestyle' by calling it normal. And children should not be exposed to this as their parental role models as so many want for gays to have full parental rights to adopt..Â
If sexuality and gender is as fluid and undefined by chromosomes and genitals as the people who generally support this kind of lifestyle say it is, then they don't need to be visiting their 'fluidity' and confusion on impressionable children.
@ormom They are women living in women's bodies who happen to be gay.I don't think they are seeking any favors from you except to kindly remove yourself out of their legal arraignments."children should not be exposed to this" What exactly are you suggesting? I gotta tell you sweetheart,it's 2013 and unless you have your children wrapped in bubble wrap,they are going to be exposed to people who are different and live differently than them.Gay people have every right to health,happiness,prosperity,and to be treated equally under the law when it comes to marriage.Your aversion and personal jihad against the gays has no bearing on their personal freedoms as American citizens.
@ormom Good thing their sexuality doesn't concern you...that way you won't have to spend any time worrying or fretting over it.  Am I right or what?  Pow.
Again with requesting  special rights! And YES, it would be SPECIAL RIGHTS not afforded to straight couples.
When a man & woman wish to marry and one is NOT a citizen, there are steps that must be taken BEFORE they marry in order for that person to immigrate to LEGALLY.Â
The process takes a couple years and it costs money! There are no exceptions for a straight couple, in a traditional marriage so why should there be a "special visa" for homosexuals?Â
They need to follow the same rules & process as any man & woman would have to follow if one of them was not a citizen. Those steps are easily found with a simple search on the Net. My son was dating a girl from Holland and they did some investigating on what they would have to do if they eventually got married. It isn't as simple as "pop on over to the US and we'll go before a Justice and get a license." There is a lot more to it.. I'm glad there is or we would have millions of illegals paying somebody to marry them to get citizenship.Â
If homosexual couples want to be treated THE SAME as a traditional male/female couple than they have to follow ALL the rules and can't just request 'special laws' when they don't like the one's that already exist.Â
Illegal?!?!? Become a US citizen the way you were SUPPOSED to!!!
deport them both!
That what makes no sense. Up until historically "yesterday" blacks, or pertty much anybody of color was not afford anything in this country. Now, illegals (i apologize) NON-CITIZENS OF ELSEWHERE... Â can get whatever they want. Hell, black 'christians' getting all their needs met but it's ok to throw the other minorities under the bus i suppose? Where's the equality? Either we call get ice-cream or damn it, nobody even gets frozen yogurt. That's how it should be. This bloody constitutional talk gets more going on guns than it does about two people loving one another and wanting to spend their lives this way? But hey, it's a white males world.
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And yet, white males seem to live better lives than anyone else. I'm a white male. Take a look at the actors, politicians, CEO's, most are going to be white, and very male.Â
Oh yes, 1 black president after 43 white presidents, oh yes, it's clear that there's absolutely no racial disparity there whatsoever.
@pdxd Â
Take a look at your own president, the highest CEO in the land, and elected to boot. Or is he too "white" for you?
@TheUglyTruth @pdxd Hey the truth isn't always pretty and most other people would rather not deal with it, but it's been said. The reality of the situation is clear. Nobody has to have a "beautiful mind" in order to see the reality on the ground.
@pdxd "and more sausage than anything else"
I may not agree with your opinion on this but that was FUNNY as heII.
ROFL Bahahahahaha! Â Â :PÂ
I don't think it's racist to say that if you put the top CEO's in North America in a room, that you'd notice that most tend to be men, and most would tend to be white. There are exceptions though, but for the most part, the USA continues to show favor towards white men. Take a look at the Congress or Senate. Even take a look at the ratio on the Supreme Court, there's more white, and more sausage than anything else
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@TheUglyTruth Gee I hope you ment ultimate fight competition.
And not ugly fug clubÂ
@TheUglyTruth Dude looks like a lady. (sorry, Areosmith)
Adios, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I'm gay gotta love me
I like the quote about "putting a kink in your day"
It's obvious that these two women need a good immigration attorney and not more criticism than they already deal with. They have been together longer than many couples, straight or otherwise, and to slam them for their appearance is absurd. My hope is that an immigration attorney steps up and assists them with their issue, and not some guy who misinforms them how to stay illegally. They have been together for more than 16 years and in much more difficult circumstances than most couples face, such as commuting between countries. Straight Americans can sponsor their spouse for entry into the US, but not same-sex couples. This in itself, is discrimination, and needs to fair for ALL who marry.
@Yallar Rhude "Straight Americans can sponsor their spouse for entry into the US, but not same-sex couples"
Yes, they can but it takes TIME and MONEY and there is a process to do it legally. Traditional couples can't just get married and THEN demand a "special visa" or an exception to the law that already exists.Â
If this couple had followed the existing rules that men & women are required to follow, when one is not a citizen, they wouldn't be having this problem. There is a process & requirements to be met for a person to legally immigrate, for marriage to a citizen.Â
It seems to me, this couple tried to do an end-run around the existing laws for immigration through marriage. They bypassed the "premarriage" & "preimmigration" rules & regs and now they want special treatment & special laws to make the process easier. Sorry fair is fair, it shouldn't be easier for same sex couples than it is for traditional man/woman couples. It should be THE SAME.Â
@cwpholder It is the same! Here's a little tidbit I found: Common law marriage is recognized in Alabama, and 15 other states allow some form of common law marriage. Marriage laws in the United States are under the exclusive jurisdiction of state legislatures. The federal government has no business telling you whom you can and cannot marry.
@Yallar Rhude Having done one of them myself, it's easy to pine and be in love with someone from a very long distance. Mine was 5500 miles. Even though I love the guy and we're friends to this day, we'd NEVER have lasted the 6 years we did if we lived together. Sooooo....that makes many of us who have been in that boat even more skeptical.
Mrs. Doubtfire got married ?
I seem to recall a "Full Faith and Credit" clause in the US Constitution that requires one state to recognize things like debts and MARRIAGE entered into in another state.
And that also applies to the Federal Government as well.
Now let's look at another side of this. IF the marriage isn't recognized by the federal government (DOMA is still law), then the VISA IS STILL VALID.
@ShallowEnder >'"Full Faith and Credit" clause
I believe that's a component of the two cases being heard before the SCOTUS right now, specifically the one out of NY. Ultimately, I doubt very much that DOMA will be upheld under precident. Once prop 9 out of CA goes down, along with the NY case, DOMA and other such laws will be effectively null and void.Â
actually, it's prop 8
Why doesn't Sanders go back to Mexico with her until they can get this figured out? If they truly love each other it wouldn't matter where they live, right?
Perhaps, they should have looked into the details before they flew to another state (that neither lives in) to get married and then off on a honeymoon, before making sure their ducks were in a row. Evidently neither one of them understands how to plan for their future.
But why should they be required to go through all of that, when any male/female combination can go through a marriage express lane?
@pdxd "when any male/female combination can go through a marriage express lane?"
That is NOT accurate. A person doesn't automatically gain citizenship when they marry a US citizen. They have to apply and follow specific rules. There's a process and it takes time & money. It can take a couple years to complete the premarriage & preimmigration requirements.
This couple is looking for a quick way around the laws and that is NOT fair. The laws that exist for immigrating through marriage do NOT specify male/female marriage only. It's about legal citizenship via marriage, no matter what sex they are.Â
They need to follow the same laws as any other couple- they're not entitled to 'special laws."Â
http://www.visaus.com/marriage.html
@pdxd "married homosexual couples are not able to sponsor their spouse."
 I never ask for sources, NEVER but in this case I would like to see your source for that.Â
From what I read on the visa site and the US immigration site they can go through the SAME process as any other couple. Not a faster, easier "special" process but the long, time consuming, costly process that everyone else goes through.Â
I didn't say that any married person is granted immediate citizenship for bi-nationals. However, under current law, married hetero-sexual couples can sponser their spouse, married homosexual couples are not able to sponsor their spouse. There's the difference.
@pdxd Because had they been male & female the same thing would have happened. I had a friend who did the same thing. They applied way early. During the process she had to go home because her adult son had gotten very ill. The US would not let her back in because she had to give up her visitor Visa to apply for the one she needed to get married.
Just because this couple is gay doesn't mean they should be treated any different. If other people have had to put up with the ineptness of our government agencies, they should too.
Well so much for the United States of America the land of the free. Welcome to the Divided States of America were you can do something in one state but not in the other. the only thing wrong with the world is the governments of the people.
this is what happens when you elect a muslim president!  TWICE!
A little due diligence never hurts anyone. Someone (*cough* Shawn) should have looked that up!Â
Or if they are treated equally, they can travel just as freely as any heterosexual married couple. Oh, but select officials want to keep homosexual couples as second class citizens. I forgot about that.
@pdxd You seem to keep ignoring the long drawn out process that all other couples have to go through when marrying an immigrant. It is NOT a cake walk. These two should have done their homework.
I know you really want to make this about same sex couples but it isn't. It's about a couple who didn't follow the rules and now wants a free pass.
Please note that marriage to a U.S. citizen does not automatically entitle a foreigner (alien or non-U.S. citizen) to U.S. citizenship. Persons in the United States illegally who marry U.S. citizens must eventually leave the United States, undergo consular processing in their home country, obtain a "waiver of grounds of inadmissibility", and re-enter the United States legally. Â
@pdxdperhaps you missed my post from the Visa site above. Let me post it again:
It is the same! Here's a little tidbit I found: Common law marriage is recognized in Alabama, and 15 other states allow some form of common law marriage. Marriage laws in the United States are under the exclusive jurisdiction of state legislatures. The federal government has no business telling you whom you can and cannot marry.Â
Â
@pdxd What is your source for that statement?Â
I've read the visa & immigration sites as it seems Owt_Raged has and it does NOT state anything like that.Â
Heterosexual married spouses can sponsor their non-citizen spouse, homosexual spouses can not. That's the inequality. I'm not saying the spouse of a homosexual should be granted automatic citizenship, but that their citizen spouse should be able to sponsor them on their way to citizenship, same as a heterosexual spouse.