Mystery illness that took her legs doesn't quell teen's faith
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MONMOUTH, Ore. – A teenager has returned home after losing both her legs to a mysterious disease that kept her in the hospital for three months.
But doctors still don't know why 18-year-old Tabitha Schulke got sick so fast.
She went to the hospital with what felt like the flu, but it quickly turned into an illness that brought her to the brink of death.
Tabitha and her family said Tuesday it is a miracle she's home after doctors didn't expect her to survive.
When she went to the hospital, she had a high fever. Then that night doctor's told her mother, Donna, they didn't expect Tabitha to live.
Christmas for the family had to wait until February this year. It wasn't the holidays unless Tabitha could be there by the tree.
While everyone else was celebrating on Christmas Day, Tabitha was in a hospital, unrecognizable – swollen and discolored – and in so much pain while her family prayed at her bedside.
She developed gangrene in her legs and her mother said that was one of the hardest decisions of her life, allowing doctors to amputate Tabitha's legs to keep her alive.
"I'm happy that I'm alive, and I'm grateful for all of those things that people take for granted. I'm just thankful to be alive," Tabitha said.
She was unconscious for the entire time and doesn't remember anything beyond the ambulance ride to the hospital. But she believes it's a miracle she's alive.
"I looked in her eyes," said Donna after her daughter opened them, "and I could see she was still there. And that was a great day to know that she wasn't just a shell of a person – that my daughter was still there. They put her plug in her and her first words were, 'I love you mommy.' She said, 'I don't care about my legs mommy, I just want my voice.'"
Doctors had to amputate one leg just below Tabitha's hip and the other just below her knee. She also can't move her right arm much but she doesn't question why.
"Just to have faith because I know it's gotten me through all of this, and God has really chosen me because he knew I was strong enough and I didn't even know I was strong enough," Tabitha said.
She keeps a cross around her neck, holds it close, and tries not to think about how different things are this Christmas compared to last.
"It's kind of weird to think about how things were," she said. "But I try not to think about it. It kind of makes me a little bit sad. But I'm happy that I'm alive."
She believes her faith will get her through.
"I can’t underestimate what God can do," she said.
Tabitha said she plans to go on mission work in Africa. That's always been her dream and now she's even more determined.
But right now the focus is on her health. She's on 18 different medications, still has a tube in her stomach so she can take some of those medications. But she is making progress, able to eat solid foods and getting her strength back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ZuKF3dxCY
Probably aspartame related.
In our prayers
Kelly his name is vujicic, I can't remember his first name at the moment
@Destiny Narsh His first name is Nick..
Awesome guy and some great videos. His site is lifewithoutlimbs.com
Tabitha ---- You are Beautiful and full of Life --- God Bless You !!!!
Prayers!!!:*( keep getting Well!Surprise them more!~~~~
Tabitha you can create the life of your dreams no matter what difficulties you face. There are opportunities at every turn and it is up to you to take part in them . Believe that you can be successful and you will be,
terrible
I am glad she had great Doctors, nurses, and other ancillary medical staff to take care of her everyday that she was in the hospital, we need to thank them for what they do everyday !
What an amazing young lady you are Tabitha, You are and will be an INSPIRATION to many. Take care my sister in Christ, you will be in my prayers.
Why has this become a battleground about whether or not God is real? Lets just be happy she is alive. My prayers are to you, Tabitha
I guess this is a lesson to us all at we should never take anything for granted. What a horrible thing to happen to this family, but of course it could have been much worse.
Prayers for her & family! I know what its like to lose a limb. It is So hard to stay strong & believe it will be ok, but it will be ok, just remember to believe in yourself! Stay strong!* I have made it through Bad days, my Son, Family & Friends, have Helped me through So Much. Hang in there :).
with God all things are possible!
Good to know she made it back, I was wondering about her, thanks for sharing.
^cont: he is so amazing and so full of life. even with his disability he manages to live a very blessed life. if I find his name I will let you know:) but he is on youtube and worth a look. prayers for you.
@Kelly Sanders His name is Nick Vuijicic
Awesome guy and some great videos. His site is lifewithoutlimbs.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ZuKF3dxCY
^cont: he is so amazing and so full of life. even with his disability he manages to live a very blessed life. if I find his name I will let you know:) but he is on youtube and worth a look. prayers for you.
I hope she looks into a naturopathic doctor, who might be able to help her. I'm glad she's hanging in there, she's obviously got lots of stamina and reserves of strength. Good for her. Life is hard, she's got a great support system. Hang in there Tabitha, you've got a great future ahead of you...:)
Really classy Jared, to suggest this girl was a drug addict!
theres a really wonderful and inspirational man out in the world who's name eludes me at the moment, but he was born with no arms and no legs only a piece of a foot
could be that stuff called spice
I am a proud agnostic, and just want to say....
If this girl's faith gives her strength to heal and live, more power to her. What's it to you if you are an atheist and she is not?
@VladTÂ If I could like this two dozen times I would!Â
I happen to be a Christian BUT no matter what we personally believe, there is no good reason to try to rob this young lady from whatever it is that gives her strength & peace.Â
Poor girl, I wish you the best! Â Your strength is definitely a great aspect. You'll have my prayers and well wishes.
@MONSTER Get over the God aspect. This girl survived this horrible experience and all you can spew is your "Christianity is a death cult" rhetoric as a comment for her article regarding her experience. Love how you capitalized BELIEVER, by the way. Â
*yawns*Â Besides, your point was trivial at best. Â
There is almost certainly no god. And the concept of a 'personal god' is exponentially more outlandish. Your 'god' colored glasses make it very difficult for Christians to see their a$$ from a hole in the ground. There is no logic, rationality or critical thinking involved with the worldview of BELIEVERS. Rather, it's wishful thinking, fear and following the lead of people around them they trust. You are the member of a death cult. This notion that Christianity is all a big warm - fuzzy, is the furthest thing from the truth.
The BELIEVER is put in a position where they must employ some major mental gymnastics when their alleged  'god of love,' allows such misfortunes (like the one this young lady endured) to occur. The American Taliban has a knack of praising whatever action their non-existent god exhibits. Be it horrific or peaceful. It's all good because their 'god of love' is all behind it and can do absolutely no bad.
Do yourselves a favor, Christians. Read your bible. I mean REALLY read it. Atheism will very likely follow in short order.
MONSTER
@MONSTERÂ
"There is almost certainly no god"
Not positive? Dang, you better be right. If I'm wrong I won't even know it, but if you're wrong, big Oops! I'll pray for you though, because despite the fact that you spew venom and hatred for a fictitious being, I believe that He still loves you and wants His best for you. Peace.
@Scotty9Â @MONSTERÂ
Nope. Not positive. Not positive about a lot of things. I'm ignorant about a vast number of topics. This not being one of them. Â Â Â
Sounds to me like you're a "Christian" hedging his bet. Just under the surface, you have your doubts. You've been made aware of a version of the Christian god hypothesis and the alleged implications of not believing "in your heart" this "God of love" exists. You've been convinced in some way or another that atheism equals an eternity of unimaginable torture. That we heretics are destined for a torture chamber engineered by this "God of love" for people like myself. Yes. You strike me as that type of individual. Hedging your bet. Feigning belief. (Almost certainly, I may be off in my assessment, but yours is a typical position taken by the claimed BELIEVER.)There's nothing to be afraid of, Scotty. Really. Don't spend another second of your life, wasted, allowing this evil, manipulative work of fiction occupy your thoughts. Â
I understand why you and others may feel as though my position on religious belief isn't popular, but I find it (religious belief) to be a scourge upon global society. A virus. And as this beautiful blue marble of ours continues to become smaller and smaller, tribal differences revolving around differing beliefs become more and more immediate. This is 2013. Time to grow up and leave the bronze age in the bronze age.
Spewing venom and hatred? Is that what I'm doing? My assessment is that mine is a position of logic, reason and reality. Not pulling any punches.
I like asking believers the following question - I hope you or someone will answer... Here goes... Do you, Scotty, remember what it was like before you were born? You know, those good ole' days before you were even a twinkle in your father's eye. I sure as hell don't. Do you? I wonder why you and other believers have reason to assume that when we die, we'll all not simply return to a state identical to the one we found ourselves in before we were brought into this world. What's the matter with this scenario? Is it irrational? Do you, Scott have an aversion to this end? If so, why?
Pray for me if you wish. Remember to do it in private. You know. Like the Bible instructs.
MONSTER
@Scotty9Â @MONSTERÂ
Nor am I trying to convert you or anyone else for that matter. I'm presenting reason. Reason as in common sense. Thinking from a critical point of view.
The "soul" is a religious construct that has possesses zero evidence for its existence. Not even worth mentioning. NO EVIDENCE. ONLY HEARSAY. Made up hogwash. But you want it to be true. Soooo bad. You want that man made concept to be true.
If you fear living in a world where people don't believe in a Divine authority, open your eyes. Your living in one right now. And as far as might makes right. That's exactly what you find as a bedrock aspect of the character of the god you worship. Whatever "He" does is right. Isn't that the idea? "He" drowns an entire civilization in an act of mass genocide, but because "He's God", it's all good.
Your ironic and absurd comment about no accountability and selfishness makes you appear to be a very inept apologist. This kind of tripe has been kicked in its a$$ too many times to count.Â
Stop embarrassing yourself.
MONSTERÂ
@MONSTERÂ @Scotty9Â Â
 I will not try to convert you or argue with you because no matter what I say you will not change your mind. But I will say this in regard to you last question.Â
 There is no doubt that our physical bodies will return to their elements. Do I fear that? Not at all. The question is do we have a soul and if so, what happens to it when the body dies. Such a huge topic with no way to prove it either way (while we're alive anyway).
What I do fear is living in a world or a country where the people don't believe that there is a Divine authority; a just and righteous God, who is the author of our inalienable rights. Rights that can't be taken away by a tyrannical government or a simple 50.1% vote of the people. I fear people who believe that might makes right and that since there is no life after death, no accountability, that they will live selfishly and not be there brother and sisters keeper.
@MONSTERÂ
Nope. I've read it.. I've also studied it..
I've tested it against science and I've studied the scientific proof for creationism. We've located chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea, found Solomon's Temple, the cities of Sodom & Gomorrah (which were destroyed EXACTLY as the Biblical account says).
MANYÂ atheist scientists have "set out to prove the Bible wrong" and ended up finding evidence that proved it right, along the way they became Christians.Â
Frankly, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist! It takes a lot more faith to believe everything came from nothing- that over "millions of years" NOTHING became something. The laws of entropy do not allow it.  You can put all the parts of a Timex watch into a box and shake it up for millions of years but it will NEVER form a watch. Adding millions of years doesn't change anything..Â
Furthermore, IF evolution were true... We have the normal ape, we have the "superior evolved" ape (aka humans) what happened to the super ape in the middle? Â Nope- I just don't buy it..
I wasn't born a Christian, my family didn't go to church. I became one through study of scientific creationism.Â
creationtoday.org/category/type/video/creation-seminars/
BUT NONE OF THAT MATTERS! What matters is this young lady, that has been though earthly hell and back BELIEVES!
She BELIEVES God has a plan for her life and that her suffering and loss are not in vain! Why does that bother YOU? If that helps her get through this- then LET HER HOLD ONTO IT! <3
@cwpholder The fact that you can't prove the existence of god, of which I'm told requires faith to believe - is a testament not to its strength as an argument but its weakness.
@cwpholder @MONSTER
Good to see that you're another proud CWP holder. I'm right there with ya.
Show me the peer reviewed objective evidence for your claim that any of those 'biblical accounts' suggest that a god is responsible for the formation of this universe. Also, can you elaborate on the testing you did that suggests to you that creationism is a valid hypothesis. Can you present to me the peer reviewed "proof" that solidifies your position that not just any god, but the god of the bible is the culprit for the universe coming into existence?Â
Who exactly are these atheist scientists you speak of who set out to prove the christian bible wrong but in the end couldn't and became BELIEVERS?Â
Let me tell you. Your post reads like a copy/paste of many apologetic christian authors. Nothing new here. The reality is that any scientist who believes in god is an anomaly. In fact, a meager seven percent of all recognized scientists believe in a god. And that number is declining. Declining just about as fast as the pews are emptying. Your bronze age beliefs are becoming a relic of the past. Today's youth is a bit more savvy. They don't take things at face value anymore. Yours is a religion in its death throws. Give it another hundred years...Â
There is nothing scientific about the notion of creationism. Sorry. Creationists start with the conclusion and work backwards from there. That's not how the scientific process works. When you learn how it does, maybe we can have a dialog that doesn't revolve around wishful thinking and delusions.
I'd wager that as an atheist, I am more well-versed about the contents and history of the holy book your cherish. All the surveys suggest that non-believers know more about your 'faith' than you do. That must kinda sting, I'd think.Â
MONSTER
@Scotty9 @cwpholder It's "sister" but thank you and God Bless!Â
@Scotty9 @cwpholder Faith through research? Faith is harboring a belief with no evidence, if you did your research you either lose the faith or you are unable to determine what the evidence has provided for you so you then choose what you want to believe and the default is to fall back on faith. Keep researching, and don't limit yourself to one book.Â
@cwpholderÂ
Awesome points and well argued brother, but alas, some have closed minds, though they would deny that. Thankfully, God does not need us to convert people. Perhaps one day Monster will have his Paul-like moment and the scales will fall from his eyes.Â
 You and I have both been there. I too wasn't raised in a Christian home, but came to faith through research. We know what happens when we take Christ into our hearts-the learning and understanding of things we once denied, even ridiculed. Thankfully we can pray for people like Monster and that God will choose to overcome his hardened heart.Â
2 Timothy 2           Very powerful and I keep it next to my monitor to remind me before I type anything for the forum (I try anyway!). Blessings to you.
@badcat @Ramona Science does not deal with the supernatural or spirits it only deals with the physical creation.  So it is not qualified to comment on the witnessed events such as theresurrection and other recorded events.  I agree with you about trying  to bridge gap with chariot wheels ark bark etc.  Science should sticktothe physical and Christianity to faith. Even rich people often dress down.  Maybe God does not want Knowers who hate Him but Believers who love Him but that is only speculation.  I.do NOT know much at all but thats OK One thing for sure time will.tell or not and there canbe no common ground however I still value your person and postings and friendship unless I should not be worthy of it through crossing some line ever with you as I may have with others but hope not...I do not know why I favor some here and others do not care so.much?  (:
@RamonaYeah, that's cool. It's just not science, which is what cwpholder was claiming. It's fine that you have your faith, but we can certainly agree that 3-day-old dead bodies coming back to life and reliable science have nothing to do with each other. Trying to bridge the gap with fake pictures of wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea is insulting to the scientific method, and people who truly "believe" shouldn't pretend to need phony evidence to validate their faith.
@badcat @Ramona No evidence will disprove the resurrection and that trumps anything the scientific skeptics present which is rebutted by scientists who are also believers.  Jesus will return as he was witnessed and recorded (I know I know this is a myth according to the faith of skeptics) and then there willbe evidence.  I would have no God except for the Jews.who.wrotethe books.  (Well Luke exception)
@RamonaThe formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics)...One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed.
@badcat Who witnessed big bang, no  one.  Latest scientific theory.  Last I checked a theory is a proposed solution to a question we are investigating but do not know.  Yet unbelievers in creation by intelligent Creator have all the faith they need as I do and does this young girl.  She or I do not force our beliefs.  But we are told to tell the gospel as part of our belief whether people believe or not because He wishes all to  repent believe and be saved.
I totally agree with you. I'm really enjoying this website I found when I googled "red sea chariot wheel hoax". This article offers a nice breakdown of the religion-vs-science non-debate, if cwpholder could be capable of reading it with an open mind: http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2012/03/platos-cave-allegory-and-faith.html
@badcat None of that matters as long as what the charlatan says melds with what the BELIEVER wants to believe. You must understand, cwpholder has his/her biblegod glasses on. S/he doesn't give a damn about facts. Facts are too messy and scary. Hearsay and pseudoscience reinforces his/her wishes, so to hell with the scientific method and what it reveals. Whatever conflicts with his/her desired worldview is dismissed and the BELIEVER searches out the "answer" they want and roll with it. "To hell with the results of what the scientific method indicates. I want to believe _______ and nothing's going to come between me and _______."
MONSTER
@cwpholder Ron Wyatt is a charlatan and the chariot wheels are a hoax. I can't believe you would reference such wild and unverified claims as "proof" of anything except creative fiction.
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/05/coming-this-fall-exodus-conspiracy-dr.html
@cwpholder @Festivus Forget the news stories. I think you'd be better off introducing yourself to the scientific method. I'd be more than happy to point you in the right direction if you're interested.
MONSTER
@cwpholder @FestivusScience and the notion of "creationism" are mutually exclusive. There is zero objective, peer reviewed evidence that supports the 'god hypothesis' or "creationism." That is unless you've stumbled across some that refutes the obvious. You say you did your own "scientific" review on the matter of the existence of the god of the bible. Are you not proud of your findings and the process you went through to uncover them? If I'd found irrefutable objective evidence that proved the existence of biblegod, I'd want to share it with the world. Save us non-believers, cwp. Please.
MONSTER
@cwpholder @Festivus Present your objective, peer reviewed evidence that suggests carbon dating is a flawed theory.Â
You're no science teacher? Thank goodness. The fewer of your ilk, the better. Sure as hell wouldn't want you teaching my little ones.
And just for your information, the term "THEORY" in science is equivalent to the term "FACT." If you knew anything about science, I wouldn't have to bring this to your attention.
You're obviously just as biased as I am on the topic of the existence of god(s). The problem is that you have very little understanding about what constitutes "objective evidence" and "peer reviewed."
You're blinding yourself to what 93+% of the scientific community has to say about the existence of biblegod or any god for that matter. Does that not tell you anything?
MONSTER
@Festivus @cwpholder
angelfire.com/mn2/tisthammerw/science/2ndlaw.html
That should help explain the creationist view. I can't explain all of it in such a small space, it's just too much info. Had to remove the http to get it to post.Â
Evolutionists claim that the 2nd Law doesnât apply to open systems. But this is false.  An open system exchanges both matter and energy with its surroundings. Â
Dr John Ross of Harvard "Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems. â¦Open systems still have a tendency to disorder.  The first law, says that mass-energy cannot be created or destroyed. Consequently, the universe could not have created itself. Thus, some thing outside the natural universe created it. Because anything outside the natural universe is by definition supernatural, it must have been a supernatural agency that created the universe.Â
Systems have a general tendency to go from order to disorder  The universe thus cannot be infinitely old if the first and second laws have not been violated in the physical universe.
And now I'm moving on.. Far too much space has been wasted on this. People need to do their OWN research.Â
It isn't up to me to explain or prove anything. If you choose not to believe my post- I don't care.. I explained WHY I believe that science does prove the Biblical account- believe it don't.Â
@cwpholder @Festivus It's easy - let me help.
The 2nd law of thermodynamics, i.e. non-decreasing entropy, doesn't apply to processes on the earth in general because the earth's biosphere  isn't a closed system.
The law cannot be used to disprove anything if it is not applicable. Â Anyone who has taken a college level course in thermodynamics (most of my engineering cohort, for instance) knows this.
You might be surprised what YOU learn if  you take your scientific education seriously. Â
@Festivus Now I'm gonna go read some of the other news stories..
There's one about some injured children that were found by passersby after their mother was killed in a car accident.. :(
@Festivus @cwpholder In two paragraphs? Are you serious?Â
Do you know that carbon dating is based on a flawed theory? The theory that carbon has always dissipated at the same rate. If our air had a higher concentration of oxygen, the rate of dissipation would be altered. That would result in inaccurate dates making carbon dating a flawed science.Â
Hummm... They've found & collected pockets of air, sealed in amber, that had a much higher oxygen concentration.. Nearly 50%. It's makes one think or at least it should. Â Â
Look there is no way to prove anything or teach anything of this magnitude in a few paragraphs. It's just not possible nor is it fair to the people that don't give a hamsters butt about it.Â
I'm not a science teacher, I'm a student of science. IF anyone really cares to learn the other side of the evolution THEORY, the information IS out there. The Internet has put it at every one's fingertips. The seminars are a great start, 21 hours & it's only a start. I hope you will at least check out the other side..Â
You seem like an intelligent individual and you might be surprised.. I know I was.. Â Â I am not trying to argue you into believing anything.. I'm simply suggesting there IS another theory out there and there's science to back it up. The rest is up to you..Â
http://www.creationtoday.org/category/type/video/creation-seminars/
@cwpholder Then it should be simple to explain to me how evolution violates the laws of conservation of energy (1st law) and entropy (2nd law), given that the earth is NOT a closed system - a fact which you can easily verify by pointing your face at that big shiny ball of fusing hydrogen up in the sky.
Spouting scientific jargon and understanding science are not the same thing.
@Festivus @cwpholder Ok sweetie, whatever you say..
I do understand the first & second laws of thermodynamics, the theory of angular momentum, the laws of entropy, the complexity of the eye, flight, not to mention the brain & DNA.
But whatever you say..Â
@cwpholder "Believe me when I first read the earth is only about 6000 years old I said OH BS! I did NOT believe it at all. BUT I did a lot of research, the evidence it out there- IF you want to find it."
If you believe this, you do not understand science, whether you would argue about it or not.
And as far as "presenting research" HERE- Are you freaking kidding? That's the silliest thing I've ever read..Â
I'm not your teacher.. You made a claim in your first post, I refuted that claim as far as I am concerned. beyond that, I don't give a rats tail what you believe..Â
@MONSTER @cwpholder Look I am not here to argue.. And yes, I did plenty of research.. The 21hrs of video was only a small fraction but it's a good start.Â
YOU are going to believe what you want and that's your right.. I am simply suggesting to check out BOTH sides and then make an informed decision from there.Â
Believe me when I first read the earth is only about 6000 years old I said OH BS! I did NOT believe it at all. BUT I did a lot of research, the evidence it out there- IF you want to find it.
That said.. I don't want this thread focused on me or my belief. It's about that young lady and what SHE believes.
It's about what helps her get through this- WHY would anyone want to take that away from her? No matter WHAT it is that gets her through this- let her hold onto it.Â
@cwpholder Twenty-one hours? Get real. You said you did your own scientific research that validates the existence of the god of the bible. Where is it? If you're reluctant to present it, I don't blame ya. Seems to me you don't know how science works.
MONSTER
@MONSTER @cwpholder I introduced it?? Look again..
Your post said for people to really READ their Bible and that they would choose atheism. I replied to that.
I gave you plenty of evidence and a sight to research for yourself. I didn't get here, to this point buy reading some paragraph post on the net and it's foolish to think I could provide you enough evidence in this arena.
IF you really want to see the evidence- use the link I provided. Google "Chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea."
DO the research YOURSELF. I did MY OWN research and it took YEARS.
I repeat this is NOT the place for it..Â
My point is I have very good reasons & science for what I believe, you suggested, via your post that could not happen.
All that matter is that this young lady takes strength from what she believes, no matter WHAT that is.Â
WHY would YOU are anyone want to rob her of that? What if she pops in here to read some "atta girl" positive support and sees all this negativity for her belief?
Think about HER not about yourself..Â
@cwpholder You're the one who brought up all this evidence you've allegedly uncovered that scientifically substantiates the existence of the god of the bible. Present it.
Who are all these atheist scientists who after investigating the bible, became BELIEVERS? Again. You introduced the topic. Put up or...
You're embarrassing yourself. There is no peer reviewed objective science supporting the existence of a god. Let alone the god alleged in the bible.Â
Do you remember what it was like before you were born? Before you were a twinkle in your father's eye? I sure as hell don't. Any reason you'd be opposed to returning to that "state of being" when you die? Inquiring minds... Â Â
@MONSTER @cwpholder As I posted above this isn't the place for this type of debate nor to attempt to impart creation science. To me, it's disrespectful to the young lady.
NOBODY should try to make her feel guilty or wrong for what she believes. If that's what helps her through this then LET HER HAVE IT.
The link I provided has GREAT scientific info for creation- IF you are really interested in "the other side" watch it.. It's free.. Warning- it is over 21 hours and gets deep into science so it isn't a fluff piece of believe because I say so."
If you just want a debate or argument, I'm not here for that..Â
**I had to remove the http from that link.. It wouldn't post as a clickable..Â
@cwpholder ~  Good post, cwpholder...  I'm not into organized religion, but I'm a strong believer that everyone is 100% entitled to his/her own faith and beliefs, just as long as those beliefs do not cause harm to other people or infringe on other peoples' rights to their own beliefs.  Â
I liked your last paragraph, in particular... I don't think anyone should be criticizing Miss Schulke's beliefs; if they give her comfort and strength - a purpose in life - that is what counts... Â She is not harming anyone; she is merely stating her beliefs... I'm not sure why some people seem bent on belittling someone else for their choices... I think people need to try to respect each other a little more...
@margay1 @cwpholder Thanks Margay.. I agree 100%%.. I don't force feed my belief onto others but I will defend it if I have to.
I don't care if this young lady believes the blue fairy came down from Neverland, sprinkled her with fairydust and told her she would live a blessed & productive life.If that's what helps the girl get through this and stay strong & happy then who is anyone to try to take that away from her? Why on earth would they want to?
AGREE! Mutual respect! It works wonders!
@Festivus- Seriously, this isn't the place for it.. I defended my faith & why I believe but this isn't a Bible forum. The link I gave has a great seminar that explains the scientific evidence FOR the Biblical account. If you really want answers- watch it.. It's free. If you're just trolling for an argument,  I'm not your girl. :)
@cwpholder " You can put all the parts of a Timex watch into a box and shake it up for millions of years but it will NEVER form a watch. Adding millions of years doesn't change anything.. "
Then why do you want me to believe that your god, who is presumably infinitely more complex than a watch, popped ex nihilo into existence? Â And saying "he didn't - he always existed" doesn't answer the fundamental question of how complexity arises out of nothing.
You know which Lenin from context or else you are as ignorant as you choose to be. Â Have you considered anger management so you can make best use of your remaining time before you ask yourself why you are aware that you are dead? Â You seem to be unduly affected by other peoples joy faith and love.
@dblshot @MONSTER @RamonaÂ
Impressive. At least for the gullible and deluded. I'm not one of them.
MONSTERÂ
@MONSTER @Ramona 1:1,000,000,000 to the 14th power are the chances of 1 man fulfilling all that was predicted in the Old Testament.  Oh, that person's name is Jesus, and he did all the things predicted thousands of years earlier.  Fairly infinite odds if you ask me.
Watch "The Case for Christ" if you truly are open minded and have nothing to fear by doing so.
I doubt you are and I doubt you will.
@Ramona @MONSTERÂ
Didn't know John Lennon was a murderer. Interesting.Â
I'll lump Phelps in where ever I want. He calls himself a "true christian". You call yourself a "true christian". Are you following me???Â
You're the one who's confused, IMO.Â
MONSTER
@MONSTER @Ramona because Mao and Lennon were athiests and murderers does that mean you are a murderer.  So do not lumpPhelps with others we are all judged individually.  Other points you confuse your opinion with fact.  Point one I did not call you dishonest in believing fables of Darwin.
@Ramona
FAIL.
1. The honest individual will reject superstition.
2. You believers have as many reasons for believing as there are believers.
3. The bible is obviously fiction and is hardly a pieces of literature that is unique.
4. Science is real. Religion is fantasy.
5. You don't know what any given atheist believes other than s/he doesn't believe in god(s).
6. Atheism is the lack of "faith" in god(s).
7. The "true believer" will stop believing when they take off their god glasses and see that Santa and God have everything in common.
8. MAJOR FAIL. Thinking of oneself as a "true christian" and denouncing other BELIEVERS as counterfeits.Â
Fred Phelps and his church promote themselves as "true christians". Who are you to suggest they're not? You belong to a cult. A grown-up cult. At a certain point, as they grow in numbers of ignorant followers, a cult becomes a religion. It's semantics.
MONSTER
@Festivus We believers believe based on what we were given in history, fulfilled prophecy, archeology, and yes, faith in written Bible scriptures I add Israel history and preservation and regathering as foretold in last days.  The honest agnostic will see Big Bang and Evolution require more faith the more studied and is more religion than science.  The athiest is a dishonest agnostic IMO.  We believe Jesus you Darwin.  Both faiths are chosen and it is rare either true believer will convert.  Truth fears not diligent honest study of both belief systems and Christians do not force belief on you despite cults and counterfiets that use the name and the lies of our detractors.