Portland considers charging shoppers for paper bags
PORTLAND, Ore. - The city of Portland is considering charging you for paper bags every time you don't bring a reusable bag to the store.
Currently larger stores, grocery stores, and some pharmacies are affected by the city's plastic bag ban.
A new report says during the first year of the law reusable checkout bag use increased 304 percent, but paper bag use rose 491 percent.
Stores have complained about the cost of supplying paper bags to customers who don't bring their own. So the city is suggesting a 5 cent charge for shoppers who need a bag.
"What happened is that by banning plastic bags, people just switched to paper," a spokesperson for Fred Meyer said in a statement to KATU News. "Paper bags cost us between four and eight cents a bag. Plastic bags had only cost us a penny. Imposing a five cent fee on paper bags in important."
When asked why the City Council did not enforce a paper bag fee with the plastic bag ban, mayor's office spokeswoman Caryn Brooks said they wanted to test one concept and "then evaluate whether to include things such as a paper bag fee."
Shoppers had mixed reactions when asked about the idea.
"I think I would start to remember my reusable bag if I had to start paying for them," said shopper Lara Stone.
"Five cents doesn't mean that much to most people, but if they have to pay an extra five cents it seems to tip their behavior in another direction." said shopper Noel Studer-Stevek.
"I really like the fact that they got rid of plastic bags, but how dare them try to charge for the paper," said Cynthia Sims. "In this economy, I mean come on, five cents is five cents."
The city is also considering a mandate on smaller size stores to ban plastic bags as well. City commissioners will discuss the issue on Wednesday.
There is advertisments on the paper bags that I recieve from the grocery store I go to. The grocery store is making money from these ads which they cannot put on plastic bags. I think this makes up for the extra cost and we dont need to impose more fees on people trying to buy food for thier familes.
Very good point. Kina like double jeopardy paying twice.
If the ban is expanded, maybe people should buy a roll of the bags for their own (since they are a penny each) and take them to the store when they go. Plus, imposing a fee for the use of a paper bag is equivalent to a tax.
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Finally, I would like to see the numbers of bags they are using for their figures...how they gathered the data...and came to their conclusions on the increases in use. For instance, if 100 reusable bags went through the checkout stands, how were they counted? If 100 reusable bags were used prior to the ban, how did they know? And, if 100 reusable bags were used prior, 400 bags would be a 300% increase. While, if 20,000 paper bags were used prior to the ban, that would mean 120,000 bags would need to be used for a 500% increase. Who counted them?
WELL DUH!!!!!! you lefty morons didnt think of that when you banned plastic did you? How about you ban grocery stores next? People should grow their own food, yeah that sound right, No transport cost, low carbon footprint. My GOD you sheepeople are STUPID
How many more people will it put out of work because they will not need the people in the p[lants that make the paper bags if people don't use them. Then lets just keep charging for every little thing till the older people or the unployed can't even go to the store to shop. After all we all have lots of money according to the goverment so we can afford it. It doesn't mater the the unployment rates are higher then they say because the people that have been dropped off are not counted even if they don't have a job. So lets keep digging into there pockets some more.
the fee should be $50 for entering the store. plus a parking fee. plus a cart fee, plus a fee fee fee fee.
F U government!
Bringing our own bags to the grocery store is common sense. Keep reusable bags in your car and prepare to go the store instead of impulse buying. Reusable bags can get washed if dirty and if they fall apart get a better quality bag that holds up over repeated use. In Europe you bring your own bag, no question about it, if you forget, the store usually has some boxes to place your groceries. Just because you are not used to bringing your own bags does not mean this is not the right thing to do. So get used to it!
 @Jacqueline Sinke In Europe, the economy is swirling in a toilet. And, it is a stupid ban. People just need to buy a roll of plastic bags, then bring their own. That way the ethane gas used for plastic bags is not flared into the air creating additional greenhouse gas.
@Jacqueline Sinke yeah be like europe, they are in the tolet
 @Jacqueline SinkeÂ
I'm already used to it.
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I shop outside Portland now.
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If you want to be legislated into being a "good girl" and get patted on the head by a person willing to have sex with a minor, well have fun.
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I'm moving out to Buxton.
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                   I think it is stupid to charge for paperbags. Since the ban on plastic bags, I stopped shopping in Portland and wrap my meat, poultry & fish in plastic bags outside the city where I shop. My family's health comes before some social agenda. Anoher thing, we are Portlanders, not Portlandians, since when did we become FISHPEOPLE!
Comrade Sam Adams at it again, let's ban plastic bags as it is good for us. THEN we will charge you for the paper bags.
Please tax us more and charge us for everything you can think of. Next please try to take away more of my rights you don't think I need. I'm here to serve you Big Government.
I'm reluctant to use reusable bags because people might think I'm a treehugger or something. They would clash with my Hummer.
@Phuzz You should look into the reusable bags made out of baby seal skins.
Next, they'll start charging you a nickel for every candidate you vote for in the election. After all, given how little concern most politicians have for you, you're really just THROWING AWAY your vote and POLLUTING the legislative landscape.   Oh wait, with the lack of term limits, maybe there is some recycling going on...recycling of bad politicians.
What an idea ! Â Hey, when you start doing this, clearly post a map of stores charging for paper bags - so I'll KNOW where not to shop !
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Thanks!
Or just shop outside Multnomah County.
 @bat54 Exactly how can the greenies and left be so dumb to get duped by the stores in allowing them to directly charge customers for a cost that used to be part of doing business. Who says capitalism is dead...just needed to get twisted a little to raise the revenue all in the name of saving the earth. To bad for all those companies and the employees at the paper making plants but maybe they will be able to find a green job funded by the king of Green Mr Obama if he gets re-elected.
This is just stupid. I don't like plastic to begin with (if you have to put one down to unlock your door, it gets all wonky and spills everything out unless you knot the handles). But I do reuse them in the bathroom waste baskets. I don't like paper sacks because when it rains, or if something frozen is in there...the bottom can fall out before you get it home. I rarely use the paper...but do because it's a treat for my cats. They LOVE 'em :) My question is...what happens when it comes to plastic trash bags or lawn bags? I will not use anything but plastic for the trash. No way :( So I wonder why "shopping" plastic is being singled out?
 @Bewitchin1 Don't worry once they tackle that they will be going after your trash bags next. In fact they kinda already have by forcing you to only get trash picked up every other week in PDX,
I always used those bags more than once. Most people did. It's a shame that any government feels the need to penalize people for making choices that the constitution says they are free to make!
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So what do we think will be on the list next that government wants to control in our personal and business lives?
It seems to me that the stores should just come out and say "want a paper bag? that will be five cents, please" instead of petitioning the government to make it mandatory. They're afraid to offend their customers over a friggin nickle. Lame. Heck, just raise prices on everything by a penny and that would more than cover it. No one would notice either.
 @Owt_Raged Wait a minute.  I just re-read this.
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What constitution are we talking about here? Â The US Constitution? Â Which says absolutely nothing about shopping bags, but says quite clearly:
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"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
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In a Constitutional Republic, those whom we (the people) elect to represent us are empowered to make laws on our behalf. Â Unless you know of some phrase in the Oregon Constitution which a priori makes a shopping bag fee or ban unconstitutional, I'm not sure to what you're referring.
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This regulation isn't to your liking? Â Granted. Â Unconstitutional? Â Prove it.
I agree with the proposal and support it. Many people need incentives to change wasteful habits, others do it willingly.
 @criticalreason Riddle me this....
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IF the city council was only trying to eliminate a potential environmental hazard, why not just pass a municipal ordinance against the bags? Impose a $500 fine against any retailer who violates the ban.Â
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Answer: Because it's not just about a potential environmental hazard, it's about the revenue stream. Now that the current ordinance has become socially acceptable, it's time to tweak it and generate MORE revenue. See how this idea flies politically, and put the next tax in place.Â
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Government is addicted to revenue. Time and time again, they ramp up the PR and spin machine to try to sell the next 'noble' cause to raise revenue, and unfortunately people buy into it.Â
 @MarkKpic Why do you assume the revenue goes to the city? Perhaps it goes to the retailers to defray the costs of the paper bags? Have you read the proposal? On the other hand, I would see it working like our existing bottle bill:
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How a bottle bill works
Deposits on beverage containers are not a new idea. The deposit-refund system was created by the beverage industry as a means of guaranteeing the return of their glass bottles to be washed, refilled and resold.
When a retailer buys beverages from a distributor, a deposit is paid to the distributor for each can or bottle purchased. The consumer pays the deposit to the retailer when buying the beverage. When the consumer returns the empty beverage container to the retail store, to a redemption center, or to a reverse vending machine, the deposit is refunded. The retailer recoups the deposit from the distributor, plus an additional handling fee in most U.S. states. The handling fee, which generally ranges from 1-3 cents, helps cover the cost of handling the containers.
 @criticalreason  @MarkKpic >'Why do you assume the revenue goes to the city?'
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Let's just say that demonstrated behavior would tend to indicate that would be the practice.Â
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..and you didn't answer the question.Â
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IF the goal is to eliminate the use of plastic bags, why not just pass an ordinance with the fines going to commercial retailers who violate it?
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Insofar as the state recycle programs, I actually think CA program has some serious merit. There is a .10 charge on most beverage containers, regardless of contents. ALL containters made of recyclable materials can be recycled by stations located at individual retailers (basically, they're shipping containters). They're weighed, and the consumer is given a receipt worth the current value of the containers brought in that can be redeemed at the retailer. The stations are manned by prison trustees.
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"...When asked why the City Council did not enforce a peper bag fee with the plastic bag ban..."
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They make bags out of peper?
Another reason not to shop in Portland. If I were working in one of those stores where people had to bring their own fabric bags I would wonder what scrungy bacteria lives in those never-washed bags. I guess I would have to wear rubber gloves to keep my hands clean. But then I'd pass on the germs to others. Perhaps shoppers should stuff their own bags? But pay a nickel for a bag? Gag! More markup to pass on to the shopper. And that's why they can go on about their business without me shopping there.Â
 @jpk Ever wash your underwear? It's not as complicated as it sounds.
Reusable fabric shopping bags have nothing to do with underwear. I was merely passing on what my wife told me was happening at WalMart while she worked there briefly as a cashier. The bags she had to deal with were grungy and smelly, like some of the people, and looked like they had never seen soap and water. If you want to stick your hands into someone's bag which smelled of rancid meat drippings and other leftover "stuff", go right ahead. As for your comment, washing would help, but I believe that most people just empty their "environmentally safe" bags (with their cute printed sayings) upon arrival home, then stuff them back in the car trunk for the next use, leaving all the wonderful residue to foment in the hot trunks.
Wow Sam and his gang want to control the whole city..Hurry Dec 31st..What wll they do next?
I love shopping at Costco and they don't use bags at all to my knowledge.
 @riderofthelegend That's the great thing about Costco.  No bag required - but don't get caught without your pallet jack.
 @Festivus  @riderofthelegend Pallet jack, I like it. Now, if the state would only let Costco sell Jack Daniels by the barrel.
Freddy's had/has a great policy before the ban was put in place. A refund of $0.05 per bag when you supply your own. It was enough of an incentive that I bought two and the cost amortized out in 20 weeks. If I bought more than two bags full I then I just got the regular bags. No cash back.
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 What is wrong with the free market solution? Kroger's doesn't like to deal with paper bags, so they offer a carrot. sammy and co just wants to bent us over and give us the stick. For our own good right?
So,,,, what about those folks on food stamps? Are they going to be paying a nickel a bag, or are we wage earners going to?
@oodathunked I'm a long-time wage earner who is currently on food stamps. Why can't I pay a nickle a bag??? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. For your info...I have cloth bags that I paid .99 for at Freddies and Winco. I have 6 of them. What's your excuse?
An extra 30/50 cents on my grocery bill? phsft no problem. Only thing is, whats next?
@oodathunked Kinda reminds me of the whole smoking thing. First, you could smoke anywhere. Then they came up with "designated smoking areas" in restaraunts, then totaly illegal to smoke in restaraunts. Then bars. Then (I don't know ifit passed) you could not smoke in your own ome if a plumber was working in your kitchen (they call it the work place)
I remember when people used to walk around safeway shopping w/ smoke in hand.They had ashtrays on pedastals at the end of the isles!
 @oodathunked Parking space fees. Then cart rental feels, plus insurance, plus licensing fees, produce touching penalties, leaving things in the wrong aisle fees, buying beef on Friday fees, glass container fees, electric light consumption fees, floor cleaning fees, restocking fees, checker fees, self-check fees, Club Card fees, etc.
 @Mikey Sounds like Sweethaven.
 @oodathunked Or buy a half-dozen reusable bags and carry them in your trunk.  You can amortize the cost over hundreds of shopping trips. Â
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in the end, they work far better than either paper or plastic shopping bags anyway.
 @Festivus  @oodathunked Make sure you keep them clean, too. Over time bags can accumulate lots of stuff you don't want near your foodstuffs.
 @Festivus YEAH!! I could,,, I could,,,,, nah screw that.
I don't mind having to pay per bag. I don't usually use the reusable ones because they end up getting used for other things at home. Big deal. What irritates me is that, since Sam Adams has been boss, he's acted like an utter control freak. No you cannot use plastic bags. We're going to force you to compost and take away half of your garbage pickup AND charge you more. I am not a raging tea partier or anything, but I'm sick of City Council and King Adams legislating my life!
 @starbuck That's what democrats do. It's called the Nani State.
Guess what??? Start charging for grocery bags I can assure you my grocery costs will be, at last, finally lowered...if for no other reason than pure stubbornness I will not buy any more products that I can carry out in my arms...it is the principle of the whole damn government in my life thing....
>'...but paper bag use rose 491 percent.'
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Well, gosh... who saw that coming?
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Oh, wait, that's right... ME.Â
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I'd be curious as to the loss of business for border stores. That is to say, the ones that are located on the city limits, and people can go across the street and not be legislated into behaviors... Of course, we'll never see that study.Â
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'...considering charging you every time you don't bring a reusable bag to the store.'
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Which will only further drive the retail grocery business out of the Portland city limits.Â
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The other thought I have is who gets the funds collected from such a program? City of Portland, I'd bet. Basically, it's yet another in the ever lengthening list of defacto behavioral 'taxes' upon citizens of the Peoples Republic of Portland.
 @MarkKpic ''I'd be curious as to the loss of business to border stores'' {Raises hand} I live in Gresham, work in Portland. For ten years I shopped at two well known grocery stores near my work. Now, I shop at two well known ones near my home.
 @Lips I know of at least two people who do the exact opposite... That is, they used to shop close to home (in the Portland city limits), but now shop outside of the city limits on their way home from work.