The most expensive parking ticket he'll ever get
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TROUTDALE, Ore. -- It was a simple oversight. And yet it cost a Troutdale man $700.
Danny Croghan sold a Chevrolet Cavalier last August. Last month, he received a bill for an unpaid parking ticket that grew with interest and added penalties from the Department of Revenue.
The ballooned ticket fell on Croghan’s shoulders because the buyer never registered the car with the state. And Croghan had neglected to fill out seller notification paperwork for the Department of Motor Vehicles.
He only had 10 days to submit the seller notification paperwork.
“…I sort of spaced it, which I shouldn’t have and lo and behold, two days ago, my boss gets me aside and says we’re going to have to garnish your wages,” Croghan said.
Croghan, who makes a living repairing cars, can’t track the Cavalier buyer because his name is illegible on the bill of sale and there’s no address.
“It’s just frustrating,” he said.
It’s a harsh lesson for a simple piece of paperwork.
“If none of that happens and people have received bills for towing and parking tickets, judges, I understand, have ruled in favor of those seeking payment from a previous owner if they have not filed their seller notice,” said DMV spokesman David House.
A perfunctory task, like submitting the seller notice, can go a long way. We recently reported on Paul Crabtree’s story. He sold his car to someone who racked up 47 unpaid tickets.
Yet Crabtree was protected because he did notify the state of the sale.
As for Croghan’s car racking up the triple-digit ticket, there’s some good news: the Cavalier has been scrapped.
I once traded a car at Breslin Buick Pontiac, and about 3 weeks later I was notified that my vcar was abandoned on the side of the road! I contacted to DMV, and asked what it was all about, and they told me that the car had been abandoned somewhere in the Portland area. I told them I traded the car in for the car I was then driving. I had all of the trade in information, otherwise I would have had to pay the towing fees, and the storage fees. Dealers are required to fill out the change of ownership the same as individual owners are. That saved my backside!Â
Long ago, sold a 57' Chevy, the guy shot himself while sitting in the car, cops came to my folks house to let them know i'd committed suicide. Luckily I answered the door.Â
I once sold a vehicle and about a year later I got the registration renewal in the mail. I called the DMV and told them I didn't own the vehicle and I wanted it out of my name. They told me there was nothing they could do. I wished I knew about a 'seller notification' form I could have sent in. Would have been nice if the DMV mentioned that when I brought it up. My only hope was that the new owner would have to register it when the tags expired. I didn't need a hit and run accident by someone else to end up on me...
I sold a car through a car lot, or thought I did, and six months later got a notice that the cars was going up for auction at a salvage yard. Took months and my uncle pretending to be an attorney to get paid by the lot. The guy salvaging the car said it had been totaled by a lot boy when he picked it up. I was lucky to get paid 2 months later the car lot went out of business and was investigated for fraud.
      803.117 Effect of notice of transfer on civil and criminal liability. A transferor who has delivered possession of a vehicle to a transferee may not, by reason of any of the provisions of the Oregon Vehicle Code, be subject to civil liability or criminal liability for the parking, abandoning or operation of the vehicle by another person when the transferor has:
      (1) Notified the Department of Transportation of the transfer; and
      (2) Assigned the title to the transferee. [1995 c.516 §6; 1997 c.249 §275; 2003 c.121 §3; 2009 c.579 §1]
1. Â Sign the back of the title and photocopy it (preferably with the new owners license in the photocopy).
2. Â Notify them online and print out the proof,
@trololol I can tell you from personal experience that the law extends only as far as the WA state line. I had a towing company up in Tacoma threaten me with a lawsuit to get their money for a car that was last registered to me in 1997.Â
My mistake was that I had not yet realized the inherent liabilities involved in an automobile sale.Â
Thankfully, the vehicle sold at auction for enough money to cover any money due to them, so it was the last I heard of it.Â
@trololol  Thank you for actually researching the law. But this provision provides what the effect is if a seller does give the required notice, to wit, that the seller will not be liable if he or she follows the listed steps. It does not say that a seller is liable if they don't file the required notice, specifically that they will be held civilly and/or criminally liable for that which the vehicle was involved. In other words, if you follow the steps in the statute, then you don't have to show any other proof that you no longer own the vehicle but if you don't follow the precise steps, you still should be able to prove in a Court that you did in fact sell the vehicle and therefore didn't personally incur the parking ticket, etc because you are no longer the owner of the vehicle.
@trololol Actually all you have to do is sign the back of the registration and send it to the state. That will also force the new owner to transfer title when they get pulled over and can't produce a registration.
@trololol Â
Unfortunately, it's one of those things some people don't do that often and so never get familiar with the process. It's asking a lot to expect an owner to be perfect in crossing every T and dotting every i and I think a lot of leniency needs to be given to people who can prove they made a sale.
While I can see where the seemingly simple task of filing a 'notice of sale' (which is availible on line) should be a no-brainer, I'm having a hard time understanding why this man cannot request a trial in front of a judge over the issue. He apparently still has the bill of sale, and I would suspect that he has since registered a new vehicle (and insured it) in his name, so there would be evidence to suggest that he no longer owns it....Â
BTW... The online notice of sale includes this disclaimer;
'This notification is for informational purposes only and does not constitute an assignment or release of interest in the vehicle.
You need to provide the transferee with the assigned Oregon title so that they can submit it for transfer into their name.Â
Note:Â Your name will not be removed from DMV records until the title is transferred.
DMV will make a notation on the vehicle record indicating that you have transferred your interest in this vehicle. The vehicle record will display the notation in five to seven days.'
Which, by my read, means that legally you are still potentially liable for things like parking tickets and criminal investigation until the person why bought the vehicle does their part and actually pays to have it registered.Â
Personally, just about every time I've sold a vehicle, I have the buyer meet me at the DMV, and I include the title transfer fees in the selling price. Until we get to the counter to submit the docs, I don't sign the release. Thus far, it's only cost me 2 sales. 1 time because the guy 'didn't have proof of insurance on him', and another because he didn't have a valid OR drivers lic or ID.Â
@MarkKpic Â
It should be enough for a seller to sign over ownership on the title and get a bill of sale. Making a seller responsible for the new owner's failure to follow the law is crazy. DMV needs a new process if the courts are going to enforce judgments against sellers. Maybe the seller should have to take the title to DMV and the new owner have to pick it up there and do the paperwork. There could be a few days grace period to allow that to happen. Otherwise DMV is forcing an owner to do their job.
@ormom @MarkKpic Please don't mistake my statement of facts to constitute justification of it.Â
There's quite a few holes in OR DMV rules regarding vehicles that seem to only be satisfied when you give them more money. But, that's a whole other rant.Â
Had this happen to me in California. Fortunately, I had made a copy of the Transfer of Ownership. The people at DMV questioned the copy, but even they accepted the USPS' Certified Mail receipt from when I sent the original.
700 bucks is more than most Cavaliers are worth. And I don't feel a bit bad for him he shoulda, woulda, coulda.
He should be fined for not doing the required paperwork with the state, but paying someone elses parking tickets? Â Absurd.
@trololol Ya but from the governments point of view they could care less about him they just want their money and will gladly take it any way they can get it...
@trololol   i totally agree with you. And if Oregon Law does not provide for a [small] fine for failing to file the Seller Notice in a timely manner, then the State should be plain out of luck re collecting monies from the Seller. [The State Assembly needs to change the law in this respect and then put what the penalty is on the blank Seller Notice that is on the back of the Vehicle Registration, and also on the reverse side of the Title].
A fine for failing to file the Seller Notice in a timely manner is also a more equal and fair resolution as well. Why should this man have to pay $700, essentially for not filing the Notice, whereas most sellers of cars who fail to file the Seller Notice in a timely manner don't end up paying anything, because the buyer titled and registered the car, or the buyer didn't register the car but also didn't get any parking tickets, etc.Â
Sorry, no sympathy for this guy.
A vehicle is nothing but a liability on wheels. If you give or sell a vehicle to someone and don't notify the DMV, you are begging for trouble. For $700, this guy got away lucky- the vehicle could easily have been involved in things far more sinister (and expensive) than illegal parking.
@al_02 The desperate state acting like the desperate people they created...  Think !
This state is a rip off, he should not have to pay for what he didn't do..
@dougrpdx Well if you don't like the state, feel free to move. I-5 runs north and south and I-84 runs east and west. I'm sure you have plenty of friends that would be willing help you pack up the U-Haul.
It can get much, much worse.. Back in the day I had to investigate a fatal car vs bicycle hit-&-run, and when I tracked down the vehicle owner, you guessed it, she'd sold it to "a guy." No bill of sale, no DMV notification, nothing. I had to verify through her neighbors that she'd actually sold the vehicle several months earlier.. And we never did find out who killed the bicyclist. Â
People, it takes very little effort to check someone's ID and write down their name and address on your vehicle registration card, and return it to the DMV. It would've made such a huge difference to the family of the bicyclist. It still bothers me to think about it even after all these years.Â
C'mon KATU, you're slipping. Aren't you supposed to help the guy solicit donations?? Every other sob story has offered the solicitation punchline. Why not this one??
@correct Ohhh ... because your sister doesn't have cancer this month, maybe we'll do that next month just for your family...Â
Only 10 days to submit the seller notification paperwork? What does Oregon DMV do if a seller sends/hand-delivers the paperwork on the eleventh day after the sale, or a month after the sale - does the DMV just reject it and pretend that the sale didn't take place? Â
The law should provide that from the day a seller submits the notification paperwork, be it eleven days after sale, a month after, or even a year after sale, thereafter the seller is no longer responsible for whatever happens to the vehicle sold, be it accumulating parking tickets, moving tickets, use in a crime, or whatever. Â
@Michael L. Duhhhh... it's another oregon set up.. This is the state of theft by the state...Â
@Michael L. I'm not sure but I believe you can but there are additional fees and/or fines involved.
@scoreboard @Michael L.Â
Yea, it seems to me that there are indeed fees/fines for not doing so. The information about that is typically right on your vehicle registration.
@Jenni S. @scoreboard   i'm sorry but i am looking at the back of my Passenger Registration Card as i type this and all it says is: "If you sell your vehicle, complete this card and return to DMV at the address below. Oregon law requires the seller to provide this information within 10 days from the date of sale." [Please Note: There is nothing about what happens if the seller fails to provide this information in a timely manner, nor anything about any late fees and/or fines.]
On the back of my Oregon Vehicle Certificate of Title it states:Â "Seller notice may be submitted to DMV in any one of the following forms and must be received by DMV within 10 days of the sale of the vehicle....."Â [Again please note there is nothing as to what happens if you fail to give notice, or if a person gives untimely [late] notice.
And while we are on this topic, i might add that i have been wondering why a notice wasn't sent to this man's mailing address on record, telling him he had an outstanding parking citation, before the interest and added penalties added up so much that it became a $700 parking ticket.
Lastly, this man should be able to defend himself against the ticket by presenting evidence, even beyond a bill of sale, that he had sold the car before the date the citation was issued. [A canceled check? A Notary Public entry into their log?]. He should not be held responsible in any way, shape, or form for incurring a parking violation for a car he didn't own. The owners of cars are responsible for the parking tickets their car incurred, a non-owner is not.
Just like sitting on the toilet old man. The job ain't finished until the paperwork is done.
why is he working at his age?  good grief people!    drrrrrr
@Pers Retiree What.. Go to hell you loser ! Why are you still living even though you are ignorant ?
@dougrpdx@Pers RetireeDon yer crackin me up!
Because not everyone is Pers Retiree including me.
Cavalier has been scrapped. No surprise here since it is  a Cavalier
Sorry Danny Croghan that you got sucked into this. It is definitely a lesson to us all.
No one to blame but himself. Stupidity should be painful.
@scoreboard THANKS FOR YOUR WORDS OF JUDGEMENT... We don't need people like youÂ
@scoreboard When should this pain start?
The day you are born?
The first, or second mistake you make?
The first time you vote for a republican?
The day you get married?
You should just get down on your knees and thank god you are still on your feet. and pray you never do a dumb thing thing thing.
@tannin Way to turn this into a political rant. Â
This guy knew the rules and had he been smart enough play by the rules, he wouldn't have the problems he has. He was stupid and now he pays the price.
@tannin @scoreboard I am curious tannin, what does believing in some mythical creature and a bunch of fairy tales have to do with reality? The guy in the story didn't do the job so he doesn't get a free trip to the collection plate. The point here is that if the mistake is memorable it probably won't be repeated.Â
@OliverNicholas @musiclover Well said! Organized religion is all about power, control, and money through coercion. It is kind of like believing in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, The Easter Bunny, and the Wizard of Oz except they all use a carrot where religion uses a stick.
@musiclover I'm sorry but you can't claim to know something thats unknowable, it makes you look silly. Its preposterous to presume you know the mind of a god and all their wishes. Its smug and insulting to people that believe this world is worth having and worth having well, without the masochistic notion of an omnipotent and omnipresent being supervising and punishing them; love who you fear - sick.
Belief in God and His word isn't believing in a mythical creature and fairy tales, as you will find out some day!!
As far as selling a vehicle and not dotifying DMV, I can see that happening - I sold a car one time years ago to a friend, who later sold it to a Mexican who crashed it in CA. I had neglected to notify the DMV, and the title had not been changed by me or my friend - so I got a call from CA! Fortunately, I had a bill of sale, and they let me off the hook.
His expression in the accompanying photo is: "Duh, whaaaaaaat?"
You don't have to have your wages garnished, you can do what I did ...QUIT. They can't take what you don't have.
@JLOÂ Your avatar is just a wee bit racist. Where are the KATU avatar police when we need them?
Doesn't look racist to me - just a guy in a ski mask, like we see everyday robbing people!
@musiclover It's a cup actually.
Yeah, they can. They just hit your bank account. Close that, and you get charged with contempt. You had your wages garnished, then quit. You are the definition, the poster child, for DEADBEAT!
@JLOÂ So you do live off the government like the ones you say to hate??
@yesiam @JLO Nope, I don't qualify for unemployment and I was turned down for government assistance. My mother provides me with a small stipend for taking care of her. When the time comes I will look for work.