Parents, students speak out against idea to arm teachers
VANCOUVER, Wash. – The topic of whether teachers should be armed with guns inside classrooms is being fiercely debated here.
A few weeks ago pro-gun rights advocates spoke before the Vancouver School Board. They want teachers to carry concealed weapons, saying it will make classrooms safer.
"Take down those 'weapons-free' zones signs – those safety zone signs," said a participant at that meeting. "And in their place erect signs that say, 'Warning: These premises protected by armed school personnel.'"
But Tuesday night another group stepped forward concerned about the idea. They are parents and students who wanted to make sure their voices were heard after the other side spoke at the last meeting.
Heidi Yewman is one of those concerned parents. She said she believes having more guns will only make schools more dangerous.
She was a teacher and wears a blue ribbon in honor of Columbine where she graduated 13 years before the shooting. She lost a good teacher and friend of hers.
"There were two armed guards at Columbine, and they shot at the students that went in. They hit them. It didn't work, and 15 people later, 15 people are dead," she said.
And she's a parent concerned about her kids' safety if guns are allowed in the classroom.
"I do worry about it a lot," she said. "I talk to my son about it, and he tells me about these drills that they have to go through where they hide under desks and they're in these situations where they have to practice these fearful situations."
She knows that Washington lawmaker Liz Pike is looking into the idea of teachers carrying concealed weapons in the classroom.
In Ridgefield armed guards are now on campus but that's an exception to the rule because they're contracted.
In order for school personnel to carry on campus, the law would have to change. And Yewman wants the school board to know her son's safety is top priority.
"It really makes me sad, because this isn't the world I want him living in," she said.
After the meeting, a gun rights advocate said teachers could act in a crucial role as first responders.
"There's about 1 out of 20 adults in the state of Washington that have a concealed carry permit and are allowed to carry virtually anywhere in the state except for in a school," said Tracy Wilson. "Many of these are school teachers and what they have to do is disarm themselves when they arrive to work to go to school. Well, these teachers could also be our first line of defense."
He's hoping legislators change the law. Vancouver school board members say they can't do anything because it would require a change in law.
This continued anti 2A bloviating has become predictable and boring. It is no surprise to me that the left who makes it their religion to kill as many unborn babies as possible, would exploit their living children to advocate for their own decreased safety.
The gun in the hands of a well trained individual, in a school has a better chance of stopping or limiting the tragedy than the gun locked up in a safe somewhere off the property, or even the gun on an officers belt 2 miles from the school. Prohibiting well trained individuals from carrying at school is to be fine with students being murdered.
The logic is as insane as can be.
@Jack_Bauer As any of the anti-gunners out here and they'll tell you I support the 2nd as loudly as anybody, but, I don't think accusing the left of "making it their religion to kill as many unborn babies as possible" is going to win any 2nd Amendment debates.
 @Playanekes  @Jack_Bauer Nobody is winning anything here. I'm simply pointing out their hypocrisy. And it IS their holy grail.
 @Jack_Bauer  @Playanekes No holy grail here.  It's a legal medical procedure....so is having a vasectomy.  If you choose not to have one, that's your prerogative.  Â
 @Jack_Bauer BTW, Bill O'Reilly ruined the word "bloviate/bloviating" (same with "opine") for us commoners.  Plus everyone knows where it came from.  That's gotta be kind of embarrassing -- he's not someone I'd want the world to know I watched. Â
 @Sundowner Gee, is my college education showing? I am blushing. Sorry that I have a vocabulary.
Give me a break. I'd rather be thought of as someone who watches Mr Bill than someone who associates with the likes of you.
 @Jack_Bauer No, silly.....there's no way I can tell from any of your comments that you went to college.  I commend you for keeping it so well-hidden. Â
@Jack_Bauer
"Prohibiting well trained individuals from carrying at school is to be fine with students being murdered...The logic is as insane as can be."
Â
Yes, it is.
 @Jack_Bauer Lame segue way into the anti-abortion debate (which doesn't exist since it's 40 years into the legality of it).  Support for your "pro-life" mumbo-jumbo is down to 17% of Americans who feel abortion should be illegal in all cases....from an all-time high of 22%.  Why don't you hop onto the "get a flu shot for your kid" bandwagon and make a difference?  More children will die from influenza in this current 6-month period than have ever been killed in a school shooting.  Â
 @Sundowner Your numbers are lies. Nice though, that you can be so flip about the slaughter of unborn babies. And a vastly larger number of babies will be murdered by 'doctors' than will be by guns or die from the flu.
And it wasn't a segue, it was a direct comparison of over the top hypocrisy.
 @Fed up Fed 'Playtime sock' -- good one.
The State of Washington virtually mandates that our children (Americans with the same Constitutionally protected rights as adults) attend school. For government to mandate citizens to be present in specific locations, deprived of ALL means of self-defense (even their own finger guns!) and without providing defense from immediate threats by intruder(s), IS SLAVERY. It creates easy targets for sick minds looking to cause as much damage and pain as possible, before leaving this life.
Â
Some will say our children can attend private schools, or be home schooled, but THAT is not an option for most children, many of whom get much/most of their nourishment from school-lunch programs.
Â
Government exists to serve and protect We the People. It does NOT exist to own us (including our children), or to put our lives at risk.Â
Â
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Amendment XIII to the Constitution of the United States of America
Â
(Now, I could argue that Washington State is NOT subject to the "jurisdiction" of the United States, as States are sovereign, but that is not the direct issue here, sort'a.)
 @jsbrodhead And I could argue that you don't now the definition of slavery....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6sEYGcXSmpQ
This comment has been deleted
 @Fed up Fed Same predictable trolling nonsense from you as usual. Just saying...
This comment has been deleted
Fed Up POS: Yep, I'd expect you to distort the truth, comes so eaaaaasy to your type. Â Let's frame your last cow pie in the proper context, shall we?
Â
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States The effectiveness and safety of guns used for personal defense is debated. Studies place the instances of guns used in personal defense as low as 65 thousand times per year, and as high as 2.5 million times per year. Under President Clinton, the Department of Justice conducted a survey in 1994 that placed the usage rate of guns used in personal defense at 1.5 million times per year.[69]
Â
POS!
 @Fed up Fed Read your post again....
There, NOW you've read about as dumb of an idea as exists on this issue.
In fact, your idea, and the idiocy of those arguing that teachers shouldnt be armed are who is EXACTLY TO BE BLAMED for the 20 first grader funerals in Sandy Hook.. The breathless trembling fear of a gun is exactly why our schools are unsafe, and why innocent kids are under constant threat from the criminally insane.
Indeed, any technical skill will wither if not practiced. That is why the advocates for armed teachers all insist that they have annual recurrent training. And besides, by your definition, you dont think average citizens should be carrying concealed weapons because their skill might degrade, or they are incapable of responding properly to a threat.
Let me make a point, I frequently compete in pistol competitions and normally work as a Range Officer at these events. It is my observation that the LEO participants do not shoot as well as a whole when compared to the civilian participants.
Taking teacher volunteers, screening, testing and training them with proper regular testing and training will provide a measure of increased safety to our schools.
To have a parent stand there, and even to have their child stand there and advocate against their very own safety is ludicrous.
This comment has been deleted
 @Fed up Fed No thanks required, but you are welcome.Â
 @Jack_Bauer  @Fed up Fed Well, I HAVE been in more Firefights than I would like, and I am telling both of you, no matter what anyone thinks, arming personnel that have little to no training is probably a recipe for bad stuff.  That isn't even accounting for what they will do when someone actually fires a weapon AT THEM.  Being shot at is completely different than shooting at a target that doesn't shoot back.  Worlds apart different.  I would not wish it upon anyone, including any teachers. BTW, I am an advocate for the 2nd amendment, own several weapons and do not believe that anyone's right to own a firearm of any type should be infringed upon.  I just see too much potential for disaster to agree with arming teachers. That's my .02.
 @Fed up Fed  @NotAChance Wonder why the in-the-bag for Obama media doesn't cover less than spectacular DGUs? Maybe because it doesn't fit their agenda.
Oh, and now you have drawn your gun! Wow, what a perfect example you are.
Too bad super soakers don't count.
Â
 @Fed up Fed Sorry but you aren't dealing with some robo fed numbskull.
The DGUs are widely known, that's why your avoiding them in your little diatribe is most telling of your desire to mislead the readers.
You make blatant assumptions and make comments like 'which is probably quite high'. That kind of schtick is your MO because you have neither the spine nor the intellect to support your asinine position.
You are just another lame arse greasy punk in your parents basement trying to find some credibility for yourself in an ever leftward slouching America.
You should find the result quite comfortable, just like pigs like to lay in their own stool.
 @Fed up Fed Now, why would I care to enlighten such a worthless schmuck, such as yourself?Â
Â
And my mother could most likely beat the snot out of you while sipping tea.
Â
War hero. LOL....
Â
POS!
 @Fed up Fed AND a liar!Â
 @Fed up Fed POS!
 @Fed up Fed  @NotAChance Miss America wants world peace.Whatever. I carry a firearm into the Clackamas Mall whether it's a gun free zone or not. Your laws, bans, statistics and opinions are meaningless and have yet to change that. Fact.
 @Fed up Fed  @Jack_Bauer Go ahead, war hero. Tell us all about. You have the podium.
 @Fed up Fed More twisting of lies:
Â
Fed Up POS: "So anyways, there are an estimated ~65,000 defensive gun uses a year, according to the Department of Justice, WHICH IS PROBABLY HIGH."
Â
You're such a tool. POS!
 @Fed up Fed Recess is over. Run along now.
Â
POS!
 @Fed up Fed POS!
 @Fed up Fed You think I bow to your requests?
Â
LOL, what an ignorant, condescending, hypocritical, self-serving gnat that would be out of place on a the latest steaming pile of s---.
Â
You're hopeless. Toodles!
Â
POS!
 @Fed up Fed NOT what I said earlier, POS. CAN YOU READ? COMPREHEND ENGLISH?
Â
"And just for the sake of disclosure, let's list incidents from just the past few DAYS shall we?"
Â
AND a twit!
 @Fed up Fed Kind of destroys your argument, doesn't it now?
Â
Here's some more schmuck:
Â
http://www.kfvs12.com/story/20630957/police-82-year-old-mo-man-shoots-intruder ELLSINORE, MO (KFVS) -Police say an 82-year-old Ellsinore man shot a man who reportedly broke into his home Friday night. It happened shortly after 7:30 p.m. on North Herren Street. According to Carter County Sheriff Richard Stephens, Charles L. White, 30, of Ellsinore, broke into the residence and assaulted the 82-year-old. White reported fled after being shot. After the sheriff's office obtained a search warrant, White was found at a home in Ellsinore. The 82-year-old homeowner was taken to a Poplar Bluff hospital and then by air ambulance to a St. Louis hospital with head injuries. White was taken to a Poplar Bluff hospital and treated for a gunshot wound to the arm. An arrest warrant was issued for White for assault first degree and burglary first degree. He was being held in the Butler County Jail under $500,000 bond or cash surety.
Â
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/01/21/sacramento-homeowner-shoots-assailant-in-self-defense/ SACRAMENTO (CBS13)- A man shot and killed another man who chased him around his yard and threatened to hurt him. At around 3:30 p.m. Sunday, a resident was opening the gate to his driveway on the 3100 block of Palmer Avenue and was getting ready to drive somewhere with his wife, when a man walked up and started acting irrationally. The resident asked the man to leave, and the man made a comment about getting into the car. An argument ensued and the man walked onto the property. The resident again ordered the man to leave, which he did. As the resident continued to open the gate, the man abruptly turned around, took off his clothes like he was going to fight, and pulled out a cane. The man came at the resident, swinging his cane violently and breaking objects in the yard. The resident picked up a two by four that was lying on the ground as he retreated deeper into his yard. The man then allegedly picked up some large objects and threw them at the resident. The resident went inside and came back out with a gun and ordered the man to leave. The man grabbed a heavy wrought iron stand and was motioning to throw it at the resident, when the resident shot the man in the abdomen. The man was taken to the hospital where he died eight hours later. No charges have been filed. The identity of the deceased man has not been released.
 @Fed up Fed And just for the sake of disclosure, let's list incidents from just the past few DAYS shall we?
Â
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Family-uses-firearm-to-stop-attempted-home/KNzixXd2SUyiCB2B1qCX9w.cspx SAN ANTONIO - A scary situation for a family on the Northeast Side. Just before 10 am Sunday morning Bexar County Sheriff's Deputies say someone tried to kick-in the front door at a home on Sunlit Trail. We're told the mom called 911 and the son fired one shot through the door. The suspect then took off after firing his gun. No one was hurt and deputies are still looking for the suspect.
Â
http://newsok.com/burglars-shot-in-southeast-oklahoma-city-police-said/article/3747217?custom_click=pod_headline_crime Police were at two locations in southeast Oklahoma City Friday night investigating reports of a burglary and a shooting.Police said five people were trying to burglarize a home at the 1500 block of SE 45 when the female homeowner shot one of them with her gun. A friend of the homeowner, a man, shot another burglar with the homeowner's gun, police report. The burglars fled the scene and went to a house at the 500 block of SE 79, police said. Both shooting victims were taken to a hospital and were in serious to critical condition, police said. The homeowner was interviewed by homicide detectives.
Â
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_sarasota_manatee/bradenton/armed-suspect-fatally-shot-by-victim-in-bradenton-ambush BRADENTON - An armed suspect attempting to commit a robbery was shot dead by the victim in Bradenton Sunday night. Joshua Pinkham, 39, and Roy Potter, 40, were sitting outside a duplex on the 4200 block of 24th Street West when three masked men approached them at 10:20 p.m. One of the suspects, 26-year-old James Brady, pointed a gun at Pinkham and ordered him to the ground. Pinkham pulled out a handgun and the two men exchanged fire. The suspect was shot and the two other suspects fled on foot.No one else was injured. Â Â Brady was pronounced deceased by EMS. Detectives are searching for the other two suspects. No one has been charged in the incident. Anyone with information is asked to call (941) 747-3011, ext. 2216 or Crime Stoppers at 1(866) 634-TIPS.
Â
http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/local/montgomery/neighbors-say-man-shot-by-homeowner#.UP_03BKYNom WEST CARROLLTON, Ohio (WDTN) - West Carrollton Police cleared the scene at Upland Drive just before 10 Saturday night. Neighbors tell 2 News they heard shots fired on Skyview Drive, which is a street over, just before 7 P.M. They say they saw a man fall into the street, bleeding, then he took off. Police aren't releasing any details at this time but dispatchers say there was an attempted robbery and the homeowner shot the suspect and police are looking for him. Skyview Drive was blocked off while police investigated. Â Then they came over to Upland Drive and shut down part of the road while they went yard to yard with their flashlights, even looking in manhole covers. Police tell 2 News they will release information on this incident Sunday.
Â
Should I continue, schmuck? I have more...
 @Fed up Fed "Not one of us has defended our homes with them, and of all of us, I'm the only one who ever had to draw my weapon as a civilian.  Kind of fishy, isn't it?"
Â
Wow, what a representative group! How amazing!
Â
Tool, troll, liar with delusions of grandeur and all-around POS!
 @Fed up Fed  @Jack_Bauer Just to make sure skippy doesn't miss this:
Â
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
The effectiveness and safety of guns used for personal defense is debated. Studies place the instances of guns used in personal defense as low as 65 thousand times per year, and as high as 2.5 million times per year. Under President Clinton, the Department of Justice conducted a survey in 1994 that placed the usage rate of guns used in personal defense at 1.5 million times per year.[69]
Â
But he'll ignore it anyhow.Â
 @Fed up Fed Again with the disinformation
When you bilge that mass shooting lie, feel free to also reference DGU statistics.
But then again, I doubt you have integrity to take an honest look at reality.
Based on the lie you want everyone else to believe about yourself.
Â
 @Fed up Fed And I am the queen of England. Its the internet so today, like you I'm going to be a spec ops who knows everything about everything.
Â
Any person with the desire to serve and simple motor functions can be trained to respond properly in the event of highly dangerous situations, I have seen that, as you are so fond of saying 'Its a fact'. It's also painfully obvious that it doesn't take massive intellect to train someone how and when to shoot.
I am sure there are many cases of school teachers becoming police officers and vice versa. In addition, our country, and indeed the world has been well defended by soldiers who come out of eveyday walks of life, to display amazing heroics under fire. Again, your claims that teachers could not do this are insults to veterans everywhere, including those who may already be teachers.
Â
Â
Â
 @Fed up Fed Right, your translation, neither have you and besides that you are a neutered government drone without an original thought or ability to act without an order, rather than giving them and leading you are simply a empty skull waiting for the next direction to act.
Go play solitaire.
 @Fed up Fed You dont know me and your 12 year old girl on mommys computer tough talk isnt impressive.
You don't know jack, in more ways than one.
But nice to see you are an enemy of the constitution.
Thanks for making that clear to everyone.
Â
 @Fed up Fed "a cruiser within five minutes of every school in town."Just exactly HOW does that help, when minutes are lives?
Â
"metal detectors"
Â
To do WHAT?
This comment has been deleted
 @Fed up Fed I actually agree with you.  I think that in this scenario, it is possible to likely that a disgruntled student or students could wrestle the weapon away from a teacher, and use it. They are not trained for this type of stuff.  Most people have not idea how they would act when and if they were put in a situation where they were being fired upon.  Some run, some cower, some stand up and fight.  People react differently in situations like this.  I have seen it first hand.  My opinion is that his is a bad idea. The metal detectors, on the other hand, I think are a GOOD idea.
 @Fed up Fed  @jsbrodhead "I'll say it again, a teacher with a gun would not have saved the day at Sandy Hook or Columbine or Oikos University or Virginia Tech."
Â
So basically, you're just going to repeat wild-ass suppositions. "I'll say it again," teachers -without- guns didn't save the day at Sandy Hook, Columbine or Oikos University or Virginia Tech either.
 @Fed up Fed  @jsbrodhead You are the delusional and ignorant here. You cannot say what effect an armed teacher would of had at Sandy Hook. You in effect vomit lies in an effort to achieve your anti 2A ideology.
5 minutes is plenty long enough to kill plenty, even with a bolt action .22.
Suggesting that our children are somehow 'safe' by huddling in the corner of a classroom behind a simple locked door is beyond insane. They are fish in a barrel.
With Oregon spending over $10,000 dollars of our taxes per student, per year, you would think our precious state workers could spare a few dollars to protect their little money trees. But that's too much to ask. With their delicate ...PERS... system so low on funds, we wouldn't want to chance using any of the teachers/administrators retirement money on something as unimportant as the safety of our children. Â
 @last boyscout Why should it come out of the pockets of workers?  These aren't their kids you're all gung-ho about protecting.
This comment has been deleted
 @Fed up Fed  @last boyscout What he's saying is that instead of blowing money out our asses compensating union teachers and non-union administrators, they could invest some of that money into training or other mechanisms. A TASER a can of pepper spray, FFS, is a start. Hiding-in-the-corner drills are great. A teacher could still have a locked safe in the hideout area in case the shooter gains entry to the room. (My kid goes to a private school and the education is above and beyond anything public. The nuns aren't going to carry guns either.)
 @Fed up Fed  @last boyscout Well, here you go, War Hero.http://www.katu.com/news/national/Security-at-California-schools-issued-high-powered-rifles-188208861.html
 @gunnutz  @Fed  @Playanekes  @last I'm putting my kid through private school. Somehow you liberals AND conservatives have gotten it in your head that the best teachers are the ones who are paid the highest.So basically all a mediocre teacher has to do is not get fired, and pretty soon we're paying out the backside for what you would call "the absolute best people for public education."That's a crack dream right there. That's like saying Carly Fiorina was the best thing for Hewlett Packard or the highest paid bankers were the best thing for Wall Street. You've been conned.
 @Fed up Fed  @last boyscout "So...your solution to school shootings is...cut teacher pay"
Â
Your solution to shootings is pansies and pacifiers? That's awesome. You put words in my mouth and I'll put words in yours, war hero.
 @Fed up Fed  @Playanekes  @last boyscout You mean those poor employees who get a years pay for less than 9 months work?
And last I checked they were all about the children so defending them shouldnt be a problem right? I mean, apparently some of them stood up to the gunman without a weapon for the pay they were getting. So to me you are insulting these teachers by saying they wouldnt have the courage or integrity to do so based on their pay.
They probably get paid more than our soldiers who do that on a daily basis.