Ban on gay change therapy faces first legal test
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - A California law prohibiting mental health providers from counseling gay minors on how to become straight faces its first legal test Friday, when lawyers for counselors endorsing "reparative therapy" and parents who claim their sons have benefited from it, plan to ask a judge to block the first-of-its-kind measure.
U.S. District Judge Kimberly Mueller will hear arguments on whether she should grant an injunction that would prevent the law, which was passed by the California Legislature and signed by Gov. Jerry Brown as SB1172 in October, from taking effect on Jan. 1.
The temporary delay would allow underage clients to continue receiving the therapy while its supporters seek to overturn the law on grounds that it violates their First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and religion.
If it's not blocked, the therapists and families "will be immediately and irreparably harmed by being forced to discontinue ongoing therapy in violation of their constitutional rights, by being denied the ability to direct the upbringing of their children, and by being compelled to violate their ethical obligations in order to obey the law," lawyers from Liberty Counsel, a Christian legal group, wrote in their petition.
The law Brown signed states that psychologists, social workers, family counselors and psychiatrists who use "sexual orientation change efforts" on clients under 18 would be engaging in unprofessional conduct and subject to discipline by their respective state licensing boards.
Lawyers for the state argue the ban is appropriate because it seeks to protect young people from a practice that has been rejected by mainstream mental health associations that regard homosexuality as a healthy part of the human experience and say that efforts to change an individual's sexual orientation can be harmful, particularly to children.
The outlawed therapy "can and has caused great psychological pain in young people who are already struggling with their sexuality and the stigma of being gay," Attorney General Kamala Harris wrote in asking the judge to deny the requested delay. "An injunction would expose some of society's most vulnerable members to treatment that the state and every major mental health organization in the country have condemned as an outmoded, ineffective, and potentially dangerous relic from an era when homosexuality was pathologized and criminalized."
Mueller is not expected to make a ruling at the hearing, but to issue a written decision at a later date.
The proceedings will be unusual, in part, because the judge granted Liberty Counsel's request to refer to the four parents and two teenage boys participating in the case by pseudonyms in both open court and legal documents.
Along with the petition to keep the law from taking effect, Mueller is scheduled to hear arguments on whether lawyers from the gay rights group Equality California should be allowed to join the attorney general in defending the law.
U.S. District Judge Kimberly Mueller will hear arguments on whether she should grant an injunction that would prevent the law, which was passed by the California Legislature and signed by Gov. Jerry Brown as SB1172 in October, from taking effect on Jan. 1.
The temporary delay would allow underage clients to continue receiving the therapy while its supporters seek to overturn the law on grounds that it violates their First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and religion.
If it's not blocked, the therapists and families "will be immediately and irreparably harmed by being forced to discontinue ongoing therapy in violation of their constitutional rights, by being denied the ability to direct the upbringing of their children, and by being compelled to violate their ethical obligations in order to obey the law," lawyers from Liberty Counsel, a Christian legal group, wrote in their petition.
The law Brown signed states that psychologists, social workers, family counselors and psychiatrists who use "sexual orientation change efforts" on clients under 18 would be engaging in unprofessional conduct and subject to discipline by their respective state licensing boards.
Lawyers for the state argue the ban is appropriate because it seeks to protect young people from a practice that has been rejected by mainstream mental health associations that regard homosexuality as a healthy part of the human experience and say that efforts to change an individual's sexual orientation can be harmful, particularly to children.
The outlawed therapy "can and has caused great psychological pain in young people who are already struggling with their sexuality and the stigma of being gay," Attorney General Kamala Harris wrote in asking the judge to deny the requested delay. "An injunction would expose some of society's most vulnerable members to treatment that the state and every major mental health organization in the country have condemned as an outmoded, ineffective, and potentially dangerous relic from an era when homosexuality was pathologized and criminalized."
Mueller is not expected to make a ruling at the hearing, but to issue a written decision at a later date.
The proceedings will be unusual, in part, because the judge granted Liberty Counsel's request to refer to the four parents and two teenage boys participating in the case by pseudonyms in both open court and legal documents.
Along with the petition to keep the law from taking effect, Mueller is scheduled to hear arguments on whether lawyers from the gay rights group Equality California should be allowed to join the attorney general in defending the law.
If it's not blocked, the therapists and families "will be immediately and irreparably harmed by being forced to discontinue ongoing therapy in violation of their constitutional rights..."
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What about the rights of the kids being tortured by these idiots? You can eventually brainwash people to do anything, but at what cost? They'll probably end up being extremely unhappy and possibly costing the state, their communities, and their families untold grief because someone just couldn't accept them as they were born.
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Before subjecting the kids to such abuse, take the parents who want this therapy for their children and the religitards who convince them it's right and see if they can be made gay. If that works, then it should work the other way around.
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Frikkin' idiots.
How many of these homophobes have fished for trouser trout themselves? Some things can't be "prayed away", you can't pray away your hair color, cancer, debt, hurricanes, or sexuality. Oh, and try as you might, you can't cure those with electro-shock therapy either.
Put these homophobes in a dark room, show them gay porn, and watch them sprout a boner. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-big-questions/201106/homophobic-men-most-aroused-gay-male-porn
This type of therapy is lame. Why not just put a clothespin on their penis when they have dirty thoughts. That will fix them (sarc). Sigh... I wish the human race would mentally evolve at a relatively equal pace.Â
Why in the world would anyone seek to fix what has never been broken? Why do we teach self loathing? There is no cure for being gay because it never needed to be cured in the first place. The success rate of "reparative therapy" has be reliably documented to be less than 5% (and even those 5% who claim success are questionable). Both the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Psychiatric Association have stated that such "therapy" has the potential for significant harmful effects on the patient. The use of "reparative therapy" (or any related treatment) can be compared to treating cancer by throwing rocks at the patient - it is just as unlikely to work, and just as likely to damage the patient in the process.Any mental health professional using such "therapy" should be sued for malpractice and have their license revoked. Each person must ask themselves, "Can I change my sexual orientation? " If the answer is , No, then leave others alone to be who they are. The so called righteous, religious people are some of the most ignorant and mean people I have ever encountered. The bible was written 5000 years ago including the Old and New Testaments. Quotes were written sometimes hundreds of years later because of different interpretations. Acting kind, with empathy and compassion for all people (not just your group of believers) cannot be argued. Following the metaphoric writings of hundreds or thousands of years ago and making that prejudice against Blacks, Women, the non-Believers and so on relevant in the culture of today is skewed to fit.
Y'know, I'd have a lot more respect for certain people if they'd admit that their sexual preference is just that... a preference, aka, a CHOICE.
 @starshadow People don't choose to whom they are attracted.
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The ONLY choice anyone has regarding their sexuality is whether or not to act on it.
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Nothing more.
 @starshadow So, you just woke up one morning and chose to engage in intimacy with someone of your opposite sex?
@starshadow And how exactly do you know this to be a fact?You must have both heterosexual and homosexual attractions.My question to you(assuming that you are heterosexual) What was it about having gay sex that made you choose heterosexuality?
@starshadow Did you make a choice regarding your preference? So, you could see yourself going the other way, but decided that wasn't for you. Did you make a choice regarding your preference of chocolate pudding over vanilla pudding or vice versa? People have a lot of preferences, a great many of them were not choices.
This ban will hurt people and families. Â When people want and need to change they go to therapy.
 @sortbait I doubt most participants have engaged in this "therapy" on their own voluntary accord. Most of them were most likely committed by their parents. And who said that they "need to change"?
The following is an actual and true study . Warning! it is extremely controversial.
Do not get angry at ME instead get angry at the one who wrote the paper.
PEDOPHILIA IN GAY CULTURE The Historical Connection between Pedophilia and the Gay Rights Movement
David Thorstad is a homosexual activist and historian of the gay rights movement.[48] He is a former president of New York's Gay Activists Alliance (GAA), a prototype activist group founded in December 1969. The GAA at its inception opposed age of consent laws, which prohibited adults from having sex with children.[49] Thorstad is also a pedophile and founding member of the North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).
Thorstad argues that there is a natural and undeniable connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. He expresses bitterness that the gay rights movement has, in his view, abandoned pedophilia. Thorstad writes: "Boy-lovers were involved in the gay movement from the beginning, and their presence was tolerated. Gay youth groups encouraged adults to attend their dances. . . . There was a mood of tolerance, even joy at discovering the myriad of lifestyles within the gay and lesbian subculture."[50]
The inaugural issue of the Gay Community News in 1979 published a "Statement to the Gay Liberation Movement on the Issue of Man/Boy Love," which challenged the movement to return to a vision of sexual liberation. It argued that "the ultimate goal of gay liberation is the achievement of sexual freedom for all--not just equal rights for 'lesbian and gay men,' but also freedom of sexual expression for young people and children."
 @lee986321 Lee, David Thorstad is a pedophile and was simply trying to drag others down with him when he made his claim. In fact, he is one of the founders of NAMBLA, a pedophile organization.
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The real goal of the gay rights movement is simply to be treated as equals in all aspects of life without discrimination based on who they choose as their partners, and no self-respecting gay or straight person would even consider having a sexual relationship with anyone not of legal age.
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"He expresses bitterness that the gay rights movement has, in his view, abandoned pedophilia."
Of course he's bitter. Because people, both gay and straight, see it for what it is: child abuse of the worst kind.
@lee986321 So you found out that there is a d-bag in the gay rights movement. There is one in every movement or group. With your line of reasoning all Republicans should be judged based on the wide stance of one of its members.
 @JTesla  @lee986321 Where did you get the political agenda from? There is no political agenda. This is some research that was found. And it is interesting that you try to place my line of thinking? glad to know you think you know how I think, I guess I don't have to worry now do I . Say, since your so busy thinking for me, I guess I can take a break. Thank you , that is a load off my mind.
 @JTesla  I would say that you should read some of Lee's bizarre ramblings about abortion, but alas he deleted them all. He started by saying that insurance shouldn't have to pay for birth control, and then went on to disprove his own point by mistaking the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights for the US Constitution and saying that all women deserve free access to health care.
 @lee986321  @JTesla Lee, you do realize that your need to classify homosexuality as a dysfunction, puts you dangerously close to the edge with your real ''dysfunction''. Many people would just as soon push you over. Luckily for you, people with your type of disability are no longer consider freaks of nature. You can thank us later for that. It wasn't easy, as there are still people that are so ignorant that they actually think homosexuality is a dysfunction. You're confusing damage with dysfunction.
@lee986321 Donât worry, I am neither annoyed nor angered. In fact, your posts bring me the same level of bemusement as they always have. Of course now Iâm even more amused by your back peddling on such a great argument against gay therapy.
 @JTesla and to make it even more plain and clear,
No one has the right to interfere with those who desire to chose this counseling of any kind be it rape, child abuse, molestation, or who desire to be rid of there wanting to be gay. It is morally Wrong to do so...I am not backing down from this train of thought and you can not change my mind on this matter. You can not convince me other wise.
You can say what you want twist what I say or try to and you call me what ever you want..this is the internet..But if what say and my words bug you to the extant of becoming annoyed or angry that is your problem not mine.
 @JTesla  @lee986321Good try. What side would rather I be on? There are no "Sides" Any group forcing there views and values on what a another human has the right to do or not to do has in since interfered with that person fundamental rights to be who they want to be by removing there freedom of choice.â What you typed right there, is an argument against the gay change therapy. Because that therapy is a group forcing their views and values on another human being and AS YOU SAY interferes with that persons fundamental rights.
It can be for or against it can be a neutral statement. Because people chose it..Now stop trying twist everything I say to meet your train of thought, all you will get is a headache in the end.
@lee986321 âAny group forcing there views and values on what a another human has the right to do or not to do has in since interfered with that person fundamental rights to be who they want to be by removing there freedom of choice.â What you typed right there, is an argument against the gay change therapy. Because that therapy is a group forcing their views and values on another human being and AS YOU SAY interferes with that persons fundamental rights. No really, read what you wrote again, do you really believe it? If so, then you are on the wrong side of the argument.
 @JTesla  @lee986321 Actually it does have something to do with the article seeing how there is a section that also statesÂ
Child Abuse and Neglect study found that 59 percent of male child sex offenders had been "victim of contact sexual abuse as a child."[75]
and this is what the article is about, furthering the treatment and study of this "Dysfunction" caused by abuse and neglect. and all I am stating is that gays and lesbians do not like it because it brings about a fundamental truth.
Choosing to be gay, is what one is taught by being subjected to abuse, and neglect and a perverted ideology. rather people like it or Not this will always be controversial, so as long as man kind is around.
We don't have to like each others views, we just have to accept the fact that so as long as people have there values and blleiefs this will never rest. And the more it is Forced, the more angry people will get. And further of all all every one has the right to get counseling if they so desire to do so. NONE of have the right to tell them they can not. and if the gay community is against this, then they are against freedom of choice and in my book any one against ones freedoms is a dangerous entity needing to be dealt with swiftly and justly
In other words,
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Any group forcing there views and values on what a another human has the right to do or not to do has in since interfered with that person fundamental rights to be who they want to be by removing there freedom of choice.
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Have a nice day.
@lee986321 That has nothing to do with this article, is not information that I needed to have pointed out to me, and in no way supports your prior point.
@lee986321 At some point Lee you should come to the realization that you arenât the sharpest tool in the shed and use that information to perhaps slow down a tad and spend more time trying to figure things out before you jump to a conclusion. At no point did I say, hint, or imply that you are a Republican. There is no political agenda with my statement. I could have just as easily replaced âRepublicansâ with anti-gay preaching pastors who have been caught having affairs with men, or I could have replaced it with Democrats who like putting cigars places they donât belong. I picked that one example because it let me type âwide stanceâ. Typing that makes me chuckle, I didnât choose that example to imply anything about you. As far as letting someone think for you... I think you do a good job of letting others do that to begin with.
 @JTesla A Child Abuse and Neglect study found that 59 percent of male child sex offenders had been "victim of contact sexual abuse as a child."[75]
perhaps you aught to read the story on the link to it fullest extent.
This was found at the following site:
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=is02e3
this therapy could help stop the "fad". Im sure some people are born gay but there is also a huge number who only do it as a fad and could benefit from counseling
@LostSoul The "fad" has exsisted since the beginning of humans.
@LostSoul Silly me fell for that "heterosexual" fad that was so hip a few years back.
Why would a state ban something that helps people?
 @sortbait It only help cement the power of the religitards over those they've convinced to follow them.
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It does a lot more harm than good.
 @sortbait Answer : because it undermines all the research that states one is born gay and such, in essence this is the biggest threat to the gay community. In other words the fear is that the gays are afraid of the truth it is a choice to be gay, not genetics or any other factors save for the fact of possible sexual abuse could lead one into this realm. . .
@lee986321 Thank goodness you and I made the conscious choice to be heterosexual. Granted I could have doubled my chances if I had decided to go both ways, but I just didnât pick that option.
@lee986321 Here let me spell it out for you, your statement of "gays are afraid of the truth it is a choice to be gay" does not contain the words would or could.
@lee986321 You used "could" in reference to child abuse, which has nothing to do with the point I made. This article is not about child abuse, try to focus.
 @JTesla  @lee986321 I never said the word "would" I said "could" big difference.
@sortbait because there's zero actual evidence showing it helps anyone. The people that have gone through it come out severely broken mentally and usually end up committing suicide as a result. The only people that believe it works are the religious nut jobs.
 @Ramsesthegreat  @sortbait So the following people have committed suicide or are severely mentally unstable?
Michael Glatze, Chris Huhne ..ect..
If California fell into the sea today it would not be soon enough for me.
 @RalphCramden No point in polluting the ocean.
Better if it was just swallowed up in a volcanic cauldron.
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The best reason to oppose "reparative therapy" is that it simply does not work. Homosexuality has biological determinants.