Boy Scouts considering retreat from no-gays policy

NEW YORK (AP) — The Boy Scouts of America may soon give sponsors of troops the authority to decide whether to accept gays as scouts and leaders — a potentially dramatic retreat from an exclusionary nationwide policy that has provoked relentless protests.
Under the change now being discussed, the different religious and civic groups that sponsor Scout units would be able to decide for themselves how to address the issue — either maintaining an exclusion of gays, as is now required of all units, or opening up their membership.
Monday's announcement of the possible change comes after years of protests over the no-gays policy — including petition campaigns that have prompted some corporations to suspend donations to the Boy Scouts.
Under the proposed change, said BSA spokesman Deron Smith, "the Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members, or parents."
Smith said the change could be announced as early as next week, after BSA's national board concludes a regularly scheduled meeting on Feb. 6. The meeting will be closed to the public.
The BSA, which celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2010, has long excluded both gays and atheists. Smith said a change in the policy toward atheists was not being considered, and that the BSA continued to view "Duty to God" as one of its basic principles.
Protests over the no-gays policy gained momentum in 2000, when the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the BSA's right to exclude gays. Scout units lost sponsorships by public schools and other entities that adhered to nondiscrimination policies, and several local Scout councils made public their displeasure with the policy.
More recently, amid petition campaigns, shipping giant UPS Inc. and drug-manufacturer Merck announced that they were halting donations from their charitable foundations to the Boy Scouts as long as the no-gays policy was in force.
Also, local Scout officials drew widespread criticism in recent months for ousting Jennifer Tyrrell, a lesbian mom, as a den leader of her son's Cub Scout pack in Ohio and for refusing to approve an Eagle Scout application by Ryan Andresen, a California teen who came out as gay last fall.
Tyrrell said she's thrilled for parents and their children who've been excluded from scouting and "for those who are in Scouts and hiding who they are."
"For me it's not just about the Boy Scouts of America, it's about equality," she told The Associated Press. "This is a step toward equality in all aspects."
Many of the protest campaigns, including one seeking Tyrrell's reinstatement, had been waged with help from the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.
"The Boy Scouts of America have heard from scouts, corporations and millions of Americans that discriminating against gay scouts and scout leaders is wrong," said Herndon Graddick, GLAAD's president. "Scouting is a valuable institution, and this change will only strengthen its core principles of fairness and respect."
The Scouts had reaffirmed the no-gays policy as recently as last year, and appeared to have strong backing from conservative religious denominations — notably the Mormons, Roman Catholics and Southern Baptists — which sponsor large numbers of Scout units. Under the proposed change, they could continue excluding gays.
Prior to Monday's announcement, the BSA conferred with some leaders of these religious groups, although there were no official statements as to how they would respond.
Said Sister Mary Ann Walsh, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, "The bishops hope the Boy Scouts will continue to work under the Judeo-Christians principles upon which they were founded and under which they have served youth well."
Were the change adopted, said Deron Smith, "there would no longer be any national policy regarding sexual orientation, and the chartered organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with each organization's mission, principles, or religious beliefs.
"BSA members and parents would be able to choose a local unit that best meets the needs of their families," he said. "Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organization's mission, principles, or religious beliefs."
The announcement came shortly after new data showed that membership in the Cub Scouts — the BSA's biggest division — dropped sharply last year, and was down nearly 30 percent over the past 14 years.
According to figures provided by the organization, Cub Scout ranks dwindled by 3.4 percent, from 1,583,166 in 2011 to 1,528,673 in 2012. That's down from 2.17 million in 1998.
The Boy Scouts attribute the decline largely to broad social changes, including the allure of video games and the proliferation of youth sports leagues and other options for after-school activities.
However, critics of the Scouts suggest that its recruitment efforts have been hampered by high-profile controversies — notably the court-ordered release of files dealing with sex abuse allegations and persistent protests over the no-gays policy.
The BSA's overall "traditional youth membership" — Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and Venturers — totaled 2,658,794 in 2012, compared to more than 4 million in peak years of the past. There were 910,668 Boy Scouts last year, a tiny increase from 2011, while the ranks of Venturers — a program for youths 14 and older— declined by 5.5 percent.
In addition to flak over the no-gays policy, the Scouts have been buffeted by multiple court cases related to past allegations of sexual abuse by Scout leaders, including those chronicled in long-confidential records that are widely known as the "perversion files."
Through various cases, the Scouts have been forced to reveal files dating from the 1960s to 1991. They detailed numerous cases where abuse claims were made and Boy Scout officials never alerted authorities and sometimes actively sought to protect the accused.
The Scouts are now under a California court order, affirmed this month by the state Supreme Court, to turn over sex-abuse files from 1991 through 2011 to the lawyers for a former Scout who claims a leader molested him in 2007, when he was 13. It's not clear how soon the files might become public.
The BSA has apologized for past lapses and cover-ups, and has stressed the steps taken to improve youth protection policy. Since 2010, for example, it has mandated that any suspected abuse be reported to police.
Do they allow middle-aged men to take girl scouts on unchaperoned overnight trips ? If they don't, will they have to start doing it now, or why not?Â
You can not raise your kids without the pink agenda in their face. i thought we were supposed to protect our kids not make them think perversion is normal. its a sick world and its getting sicker....
@shadowwalker So true. It's like what great philosopher once said: "Standards were meant to be diluted. It is the history of civilization." And he has done all he can to keep the history of civilization on course.
It's a financial decision, nothing more. They will lose a lot of big corporation money unless they alter their beliefs. Actually not their beliefs, their rules. Same thing happened to the Elks. They only allowed women to become members because of the financial penalties if they didn't.   A lot of the old guard resigned as members and the organization will never be as good as it once was. The same thing will happen to the scouts. There is an old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". This applies for both of these organizations. Â
Standards were meant to be diluted. It is the history of civilization.
 @RalphCramden Thank god none of the civilizations on which democracy was founded ever engaged in open homosexual behavior.
As a Scout parent, in my view, the ONLY way that having gay Scout leadership would possibly acceptable would be if the person clearly identified themselves as such from the first, with a high degree of transparency and openness, not secrecy and "privacy". It would be necessary for parental peace of mind and the thorough safety training Scout leadership goes through, plus public perception... in addition to the expectation of honesty and integrity from all those involved with Scouting.
 @starshadow How about Boy Scouts don't discuss sex and sexuality? I don't remember it coming up in Girl Scouts, and I wouldn't want my son or daughter to be getting any sort of sexual education from a Scout leader.
 @badcat Maybe, the scouts might do a better job of discussing sex, and throw in  a touch of (honor, self respect and respect of the other sex) while their at it. The public schools sure as heck are doing a bang up job of it, with the number of suicides and teen pregnancies what they are, a little help from the Scouts might do some good. If every kid that suffered from a missing, unknown, derelict or otherwise never around (dad) were to have been involved in the Scouts, it's just possible that we would not suffer the (gang) issues we do today. Maybe.Â
 @last boyscout So you want Scoutmasters teaching your kid to use condoms, maybe how to put them on? How to make love to a woman? How to have healthy sexual relations with their partners? Great plan there, and no wonder you're the "last boyscout". I'm all for the Scouts teaching kids to have self-respect, have honor, be self-reliant, and care about others -- without involving their penises in the discussion. Not sure why that's so controversial...
So the Boy Scouts of America may now allow gays to participate? Amazing turn of events after this same group has allowed gay pedophiles to be Scout Masters and Leaders for decades. The irony is inescapable.
 @I812 There's a HUGE difference between being gay and being a pedophile.  Most pedophiles live their lives disguised in straight relationships if they have a relationship at all. Â
@Sundowner
It was young boys that were molested by men that caused all the lawsuits. Therefore the perpetrators were/are gay, and because they molested children they are pedophiles. That should be pretty easy for even you to understand.
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If the men had been molesting little girls they would have just been pedophiles. Get it?
 @I812 Nice troll about my dad, but no cigar.  My dad was the one that caught the guy, beat the hell out of him and then drove him over 100 miles to the police station.  Next?
 @I812 Only because they weren't allowed to be leaders in Girl Scouts.
And most pedophiles, when questioned, identify themselves as straight males...like you I suppose.
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Homosexuals are not necessarily pedophiles.
Heterosexuals are not necessarily pedophiles.
Pedophiles are ALWAYS heterosexual OR homosexual OR indiscriminate
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Jeez, dude. If you're going to talk about something, at least know what you're talking about beyond ignorant prattle.
@Sundowner Are you saying your Dad was straight but he molested little boys? Lots of gay men in past decades actually lived double lives and hid their true sexual orientation by marrying, having children, etc. Just because a man is married, becomes a father, etc., doesn't mean he is straight. You should do your homework before spouting off.
 @I812 And you, my friend, are a fool if that's what you believe.  My dad was an Explorer Scout leader for over 20 years.  The only issues ever were with "straight" married men, fathers, grandfathers.  They weren't gay, they were child molesters.  Do your homework before you spout off. Â
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 @Sundowner Some people aren't bright enough to understand the distinction.
All they know is that when someone is different, they are to be feared and hated.
 @Mikey Xenophobia:  fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign
Well, another battle in the culture wars is about to be won as America proves itself ever more enlightened ... at least when corporate sponsorship dollars are up for grabs. I find it ironic, that two of the largest homophobic institutions the Catholic Church and the Boyscotts, preach against homosexuality, but have a long history of wide-spread sexual abuse and then also aiding these criminals by covering up their crimes and allowing them to continue to commit them.
 @noneofyourbizzness There's a high rate of abuse in public schoolcare, and yet there's no witchhunt to make subsidized schoolcare open its files, or, even better, end the entitlement program and ban schoolcare entirely.
Gay boy scouts?    Yeah I dont think so; the only ones that are gay are the leaders that have been molesting them for years. Or the young ones hiding from their identity, because of religious hypocrite parents. I would not allow my son's to join; I could never trust any groups or organization of any kind where adults get the opportunity to be alone with children for any length of time. Especially church. BTK, president of his church killed for years.Â
 @MrAchilles Well....I suggest maybe you get involved in the programs so your not so paranoid....
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I spend 4 years from 12-16 in the scouts and it was one of my best childhood memories. We went camping every month for one weekend regardless of what the weather was doing. Those were some fantastic and very fun weekends and there were no perverts. Other than maybe us boys sneaking over to the girl scouts camps to flirt with the girls in areas were both were present. Although usually we were into remote of places Requiring 3 to 14 mile hikes in so the Girl Scouts to be anywhere around.
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So your sons are possibly missing out on what could some of the best memories of their life because of your paranoia.
 @FreedomRocks  @MrAchilles Because of everyones paranoya, I'd say...Tis a shame that a few can ruin it for the rest...Hundreds of thousands of groups of children are alone with one adult supervisor a day in this world and no ill harm comes of it.. but this does not make headline news on multiple electronic devices within a 10 foot radius of someone. A majority of what kept this country and its peoples sane was to not know about these atrocities 10 minutes after they happened from multiple sources. Â
 @SrianB  @MrAchilles Exactly people now think everything from shootings, rapes, violent crime are way way higher only because they now hear about it 30 minutes after it happens world wide.
Thats really a horrible thing to say!! I am a Tiger cub leader and there ALWAYS has to be more then one adult present with children and the only time there is a child left alone with an adult is if its there own child!!  Just because it may have happened before does not mean that it happens with every group!!  Â
 @Proudmommy3 Yep as you see from my post below four years of my most fond childhood memories involved the Boy Scouts and their regular activities. We usually had 3-4 dads with 15-20 boys out camping in the woods miles from no where 12 or so times a year.
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Never had a problem or heard of one in my 4 years...just great dads teaching kids how to survive in the woods and enjoy the outdoors.
 @Mikey  @FreedomRocks Let's keep in mind that the reconsideration by the BSA also includes allowing their gay youth to remain active in scouting.  This isn't necessarily about the leaders.
 @FreedomRocks I think most people in such a situation behave normally and have a great time learning and exploring.
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It's the few bad apples who spoil the whole experience for everyone else, and the dysfunctional who paint everybody but themselves with the same soiled brush.
 @MrAchilles I bet you also think all Muslims are terrorists huh.
Maybe you should read my comment a second time. Unintelligent responses only shows how ignorant one is. Â
 @MrAchilles LOL you can't see the correlation. your such an epic fail man.
 @MrAchilles You realize that the original Mr. Achilles had a gay lover, don't you? He swung both ways. He sulked when he didn't get the girl. He went berserk when the Trojans killed his boyfriend.
Oh brother.. is that the best you can do?   Isnt it time for you to clean Odummbers toe nails?
 @MrAchilles "Odummbers"? Seriously?
Are you what, 6 years old?
Are you even out of diapers?
Grow up and act your age, not your IQ.
 @MrAchilles No it isn't. Your comment came across as homophobic, but as you've kindly explained the TreeWizard, it wasn't intended as such. So I'll rescind my snark.Â
 @Max Quinn  @MrAchilles You know he isn't against gay people in the boy scouts right?
 @TreeWizard  @MrAchilles Not sure about that. But, if I am in error, I apologize.
 @MrAchilles Be careful your tolerance is showing.
Oh and one more thing, I have nothing against gays I have several friends that are gay or bi-sexual. What I am against (and maybe my comment was not clear enough for your tiny brain to take in) is organizations for sick a holes to hide and molest children. And maybe you can tell me why the boy scouts refuse to release the names and actions taken against children.... huh?  Why do they want to keep it hush hush? They have a catalog, a catalog of years of incidents of pedophilia!!!  Go get educated please.
 @MrAchilles No sheet stupid, maybe you should read two posts down were I said to Max.You aren't against gays. Ya I know reading is really hard huh. Please just stop commenting obviously your feeble mind cannot comprehend what I am saying.
I have zero tolerance to pedophiles.... this is only one place out of hundreds that sickos hide.Â
Or you could blow off all the BS and support www.scoutingforall.org.
No fux given.Â
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 @Mike Smith I see you're deleting all your comments .... coward.
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This one is especially lame. How long until you realize how stupid it sounds and delete it too?
 @badcat  @Mike Smith He actually affirmed he's FishBait on another story today.  I think you and I win the "nailed it" prize for today.
 @badcat Of course that last part was made-up stuff I've heard, never actually experienced such interruption.....since we now have an electronic gate.  =)
 @Sundowner lol!!
 @badcat Oh, it's my Saturday too, quite pleased to say.  I'm not one to share a bra either -- heck, there's barely extra room in mine to pack my gun.  As for the Bronies, I think it's totally weird, but then I've also heard there's a similar group that's into Easy Bake Ovens.  I guess when those people were commenters here on this forum, someone kept telling them to either "Get a life" or "Find a hobby".  Oh, well, to each his own....either are probably better than going door-to-door  handing out religious pamphlets as they interrupt everyone's good ol' Saturday morning hot monkey sex.  Â
 @Sundowner Hope there's room on the Nailed It trophy for both monikers. We can share the gas money, but not the Wonder Bra. Sorry, I'm just uptight that way.Â
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My Little Pony? So funny that you'd mention that, as this afternoon (it's my Saturday) on "Millionaire" they asked a question about what group of adult men were obsessed with MLP ... being a Howard Stern fan, I knew the answer was "Bronies". Couldn't believe that ABC would ask a daytime game-show question about pony-related bestiality fetishes. Perhaps the networks are truly coming around to acceptance of all things? Boy Scouts everywhere, avert your eyes!
 @badcat Yeah, he did the PERS junk, blah, blah, then deleted.  We still get the Nailed It Prize, which today is a lovely My Little Pony doll thingy, a Wonder Bra and gas money for a trip to La Pine.  It's the little things in life that bring such joy.
 @Sundowner Interesting...