Hamas fires more rockets as Israeli missile strikes continue
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Israeli aircraft struck crowded areas in the Gaza Strip and killed a senior militant with a missile strike on a media center Monday, driving up the Palestinian death toll to 100, as Israel broadened its targets in the 6-day-old offensive meant to quell Hamas rocket fire on Israel.
Escalating its bombing campaign over the weekend, Israel began attacking homes of activists in Hamas, the Islamic militant group that rules Gaza. These attacks have led to a sharp spike in civilian casualties, killing 24 civilians in just under two days and doubling the number of civilians killed in the conflict, a Gaza health official said.
The rising toll came as Egyptian-led efforts to mediate a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas got into gear.
While Israel and Hamas were far apart in their demands, both sides said they were open to a diplomatic solution - and prepared for further escalation if that failed.
The leader of Hamas took a tough stance, rejecting Israel's demands that the militant group stop its rocket fire. Instead, Khaled Mashaal said, Israel must meet Hamas' demands for a lifting of the blockade of Gaza.
"We don't accept Israeli conditions because it is the aggressor," he told reporters in Egypt. "We want a cease-fire along with meeting our demands."
An Israeli official said Israel hoped to find a diplomatic solution to the crisis as well and signaled Egypt was likely to play a key role in enforcing any truce.
"We prefer the diplomatic solution if it's possible. If we see it's not going to bear fruit, we can escalate," he said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive diplomatic efforts under way.
The official said Israel doesn't want a "quick fix" that will result in renewed fighting months down the road. Instead, Israel wants "international guarantees" that Hamas will not rearm or use Egypt's neighboring Sinai peninsula for militant activity.
Overall, the offensive that began Wednesday killed 100 Palestinians, including 53 civilians, and wounded some 840 people, including 225 children, Gaza heath official Ashraf al-Kidra said.
On the Israeli side, three civilians have died from Palestinian rocket fire and dozens have been wounded. A rocket-defense system has intercepted hundreds of rockets bound for populated areas.
Hamas fighters have fired more than 1,000 rockets into Israel in the current round of fighting, including 95 on Monday, among them one that hit an empty school in the coastal city of Ashkelon. Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said 29 rockets were intercepted by the Iron Dome anti-missile battery. Rockets landed in open areas of Beersheva, Ashdod, Ashkelon, and caused damage in a number of areas.
Schools in southern Israel have been closed since the start of the offensive on Wednesday, and large police units deployed in the area to respond to any potential damage and injuries from rockets.
A poll published in the Haaretz daily on Monday showed widespread support in Israel for the offensive. It said that 84 percent of the public supports the operation, with 12 percent opposed. At the same time, it said just 30 percent of the public supports a ground invasion of Gaza. The poll, conducted by the Dialog agency, surveyed 520 people and had a margin of error of 4.4 percentage points.
In Monday's violence, an Israeli airstrike on a high-rise building in Gaza City killed Ramez Harb, a senior figure in Islamic Jihad's military wing, the Al Quds Brigades, the group said in a text message to reporters. A number of foreign and local news organizations have offices in the building, which was also struck on Sunday. A passer-by was also killed, medics said.
Thick black smoke rose from the building. Paramedics said several people were wounded.
Islamic Jihad, a smaller sister group to Hamas, said it believed Harb was the target of the strike.
Israel has killed dozens of wanted militants in surgical strikes throughout the operation, the result, officials say, of intelligence gathered from its collection of high-flying drones overhead and a network of informants.
Before dawn Monday, a missile struck a three-story home in the Gaza City's Zeitoun area, flattening the building and badly damaging several nearby homes. Shell-shocked residents searching for belongings climbed over debris of twisted metal and cement blocks in the street.
The strike killed three adults and a 2-year-old boy, and wounded 42 people, al-Kidra said.
Residents said Israel first sent a warning strike around 2 a.m., prompting many to flee their homes. A few minutes later, heavy bombardment followed.
Ahed Kitati, 38, had rushed out after the warning missile to try to hustle people to safety. But he was fatally struck by a falling cinderblock, leaving behind a pregnant wife, five young daughters and a son, the residents said.
Sitting in mourning with her mother and siblings hours after her father's death, 11-year-old Aya Kitati clutched a black jacket, saying she was freezing, though the weather was mild. "We were sleeping, and then we heard the sound of the bombs," she said, then broke down sobbing.
Ahed's brother, Jawad Kitati, said he plucked the lifeless body of a 2-year-old relative from the street and carried him to an ambulance. Blood stains smeared his jacket sleeve.
Another clan member, Haitham Abu Zour, 24, woke up to the sound of the warning strike and hid in a stairwell. He emerged to find his wife dead and his two infant children buried under the debris, but safe.
In another area of Gaza City, the patriarch of the Daloo family, Jamal, sat in mourning for 11 members of his family killed in a missile strike on his home Sunday. Among the dead were his wife, his son, daughter-in-law, his sister and four grandchildren. He embraced relatives and neighbors paying their condolences, his face swollen from crying. He disputed Israel's initial claim that a senior Islamic Jihad operative was hiding in his house.
The mourners sat in plastic chairs just meters away from bulldozers clearing the ruins of Daloo's home. His 16-year-old daughter Yara was still missing and believed under the rubble, family members said.
Egypt is trying to broker a cease-fire with the help of Turkey and Qatar. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu and a delegation of Arab foreign ministers were expected in Gaza on Tuesday.
A senior Egyptian official told The Associated Press that Hamas and Israel were each presenting Egypt with their conditions for a cease-fire.
"I hope that by the end of the day we will receive a final signal of what can be achieved," said the official, who is familiar with the indirect negotiations. He said Israel and Hamas are both looking for guarantees to ensure a long-term stop to hostilities. The official says Egypt's aim is to stop the fighting and "find a direct way to lift the siege of Gaza."
The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the indirect negotiations.
U.N. Security General Ban Ki-moon also arrived in Cairo to appeal for an end to violence.
The rising toll was likely to intensify pressure on Israel to end the fighting. Hundreds of civilian casualties in an Israeli offensive in Gaza four years ago led to fierce international condemnation of Israel.
But Mashaal said Gazans were prepared to keep fighting.
"Gaza's demand is not a halt to war. Its demand is for its legitimate rights," including a stop to Israeli attacks, assassinations and a lifting of the blockade, Mashaal said.
Israel has been jittery that a second front along its northern border could be opened, either by militants in Lebanon or from spillover from the Syrian civil war.
Lebanese military experts dismantled two Katyusha rockets Monday that were equipped with timers and ready to fire at Israel, a senior Lebanese security official said, speaking on condition of anonymity in line with military regulations.
Escalating its bombing campaign over the weekend, Israel began attacking homes of activists in Hamas, the Islamic militant group that rules Gaza. These attacks have led to a sharp spike in civilian casualties, killing 24 civilians in just under two days and doubling the number of civilians killed in the conflict, a Gaza health official said.
The rising toll came as Egyptian-led efforts to mediate a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas got into gear.
While Israel and Hamas were far apart in their demands, both sides said they were open to a diplomatic solution - and prepared for further escalation if that failed.
The leader of Hamas took a tough stance, rejecting Israel's demands that the militant group stop its rocket fire. Instead, Khaled Mashaal said, Israel must meet Hamas' demands for a lifting of the blockade of Gaza.
"We don't accept Israeli conditions because it is the aggressor," he told reporters in Egypt. "We want a cease-fire along with meeting our demands."
An Israeli official said Israel hoped to find a diplomatic solution to the crisis as well and signaled Egypt was likely to play a key role in enforcing any truce.
"We prefer the diplomatic solution if it's possible. If we see it's not going to bear fruit, we can escalate," he said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive diplomatic efforts under way.
The official said Israel doesn't want a "quick fix" that will result in renewed fighting months down the road. Instead, Israel wants "international guarantees" that Hamas will not rearm or use Egypt's neighboring Sinai peninsula for militant activity.
Overall, the offensive that began Wednesday killed 100 Palestinians, including 53 civilians, and wounded some 840 people, including 225 children, Gaza heath official Ashraf al-Kidra said.
On the Israeli side, three civilians have died from Palestinian rocket fire and dozens have been wounded. A rocket-defense system has intercepted hundreds of rockets bound for populated areas.
Hamas fighters have fired more than 1,000 rockets into Israel in the current round of fighting, including 95 on Monday, among them one that hit an empty school in the coastal city of Ashkelon. Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said 29 rockets were intercepted by the Iron Dome anti-missile battery. Rockets landed in open areas of Beersheva, Ashdod, Ashkelon, and caused damage in a number of areas.
Schools in southern Israel have been closed since the start of the offensive on Wednesday, and large police units deployed in the area to respond to any potential damage and injuries from rockets.
A poll published in the Haaretz daily on Monday showed widespread support in Israel for the offensive. It said that 84 percent of the public supports the operation, with 12 percent opposed. At the same time, it said just 30 percent of the public supports a ground invasion of Gaza. The poll, conducted by the Dialog agency, surveyed 520 people and had a margin of error of 4.4 percentage points.
In Monday's violence, an Israeli airstrike on a high-rise building in Gaza City killed Ramez Harb, a senior figure in Islamic Jihad's military wing, the Al Quds Brigades, the group said in a text message to reporters. A number of foreign and local news organizations have offices in the building, which was also struck on Sunday. A passer-by was also killed, medics said.
Thick black smoke rose from the building. Paramedics said several people were wounded.
Islamic Jihad, a smaller sister group to Hamas, said it believed Harb was the target of the strike.
Israel has killed dozens of wanted militants in surgical strikes throughout the operation, the result, officials say, of intelligence gathered from its collection of high-flying drones overhead and a network of informants.
Before dawn Monday, a missile struck a three-story home in the Gaza City's Zeitoun area, flattening the building and badly damaging several nearby homes. Shell-shocked residents searching for belongings climbed over debris of twisted metal and cement blocks in the street.
The strike killed three adults and a 2-year-old boy, and wounded 42 people, al-Kidra said.
Residents said Israel first sent a warning strike around 2 a.m., prompting many to flee their homes. A few minutes later, heavy bombardment followed.
Ahed Kitati, 38, had rushed out after the warning missile to try to hustle people to safety. But he was fatally struck by a falling cinderblock, leaving behind a pregnant wife, five young daughters and a son, the residents said.
Sitting in mourning with her mother and siblings hours after her father's death, 11-year-old Aya Kitati clutched a black jacket, saying she was freezing, though the weather was mild. "We were sleeping, and then we heard the sound of the bombs," she said, then broke down sobbing.
Ahed's brother, Jawad Kitati, said he plucked the lifeless body of a 2-year-old relative from the street and carried him to an ambulance. Blood stains smeared his jacket sleeve.
Another clan member, Haitham Abu Zour, 24, woke up to the sound of the warning strike and hid in a stairwell. He emerged to find his wife dead and his two infant children buried under the debris, but safe.
In another area of Gaza City, the patriarch of the Daloo family, Jamal, sat in mourning for 11 members of his family killed in a missile strike on his home Sunday. Among the dead were his wife, his son, daughter-in-law, his sister and four grandchildren. He embraced relatives and neighbors paying their condolences, his face swollen from crying. He disputed Israel's initial claim that a senior Islamic Jihad operative was hiding in his house.
The mourners sat in plastic chairs just meters away from bulldozers clearing the ruins of Daloo's home. His 16-year-old daughter Yara was still missing and believed under the rubble, family members said.
Egypt is trying to broker a cease-fire with the help of Turkey and Qatar. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu and a delegation of Arab foreign ministers were expected in Gaza on Tuesday.
A senior Egyptian official told The Associated Press that Hamas and Israel were each presenting Egypt with their conditions for a cease-fire.
"I hope that by the end of the day we will receive a final signal of what can be achieved," said the official, who is familiar with the indirect negotiations. He said Israel and Hamas are both looking for guarantees to ensure a long-term stop to hostilities. The official says Egypt's aim is to stop the fighting and "find a direct way to lift the siege of Gaza."
The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the indirect negotiations.
U.N. Security General Ban Ki-moon also arrived in Cairo to appeal for an end to violence.
The rising toll was likely to intensify pressure on Israel to end the fighting. Hundreds of civilian casualties in an Israeli offensive in Gaza four years ago led to fierce international condemnation of Israel.
But Mashaal said Gazans were prepared to keep fighting.
"Gaza's demand is not a halt to war. Its demand is for its legitimate rights," including a stop to Israeli attacks, assassinations and a lifting of the blockade, Mashaal said.
Israel has been jittery that a second front along its northern border could be opened, either by militants in Lebanon or from spillover from the Syrian civil war.
Lebanese military experts dismantled two Katyusha rockets Monday that were equipped with timers and ready to fire at Israel, a senior Lebanese security official said, speaking on condition of anonymity in line with military regulations.
Two pictures...Twin towers come down..US invades Iraq a few weeks later.  For 4 years, Hamas has fired over 8000 missiles into Isreal, and they FINALLY start retaliating. So why is it that everyone seems to feel sorry for Hamas, especially when Hamas hides their missiles in private houses etc? I'm quite sure that almost anyone would fight back to a neighbor destroying what they have, a LOT sooner than the Isreali's have done. I just hope they go all the way across and eliminate the problem...possibly total occupation of the area and Hamas can move in with the Iranians or whoever else might take them. Palestinians have been problem since biblicle times, and I doubt that will ever change.
I'm sick of hearing about this crap. It's been going on for over 60 years.
They all need to just pull out all the stops and get it over with.
It a lot better than them blowing each other up by little pieces over the next 200 years.
 @Mikey ...when you get down to it it has been over 3000 years of this fighting each other....
There will never be peace in the region until one side totally overwhelms the other by wiping it from the map. Anything less than an all-out war of annihilation will result only in an ongoing festering sore which will never be "negotiated" or "mediated" away! Go for it, and the sooner the better!
@jpk Not sure I agree with you but I must concede that, after multiple, futile, attempts at peace an alternate path should be considered. Not saying that path should be genocide but the fact that people can be unreasonably stubborn, vindictive, uncompromising and willing to teach their children the same values can be reason to abondon hope and embrace reality. I am a tolerant individual but only to a point and I suspect many on both sides of this issue feel similarly.
It would be great if both sides felt the best way to eliminate an enemy is to make them your friend.
Just heard this on CNN...guess Hamas has a death wish...A ship has just left Iran escorted by a helicopter carrier and a destroyer loaded with over two hundred medium range rockets for Hamasâ¦. They will be off loaded in the red sea and transported to the smuggling tunnels in Gaza, where they will be assembled by Iranian and Hezbollah technicians. The photos of the wounded children are for propaganda reasons, a child with a bandage around it's head would have had the blood cleaned from its face. It is only out of pure luck that nobody in Tel-Aviv has been killed or wounded, thanks to the anti-missile system in place. (IRON DOME). The Palestinians have fired over 1,000 missiles into Israel at innocent civilians, this is against the Geneva Convention, if Palestinians have been killed it is because they place their missiles launchers in civilian buildings.
There is an easy way to end this - all Hamas has to do is stop firing rockets at Israel. Simple! Oh and the US etc. should be putting pressure on the likes of Egypt and Tunisia to stop supporting Hamasâ¦When Muslim terrorists brought down the Twin towers we invaded two Muslim countries and killed tens of thousands of Muslim civilians. I believe the Jewish response to Muslims firing rockets into their country has been quite measured in response.
Would those for or against explain this image to me?.?.  I have seen it a few times and have never seen the source sited.  For those who don't want to click the link it shows the land area of Israel and Palestine since Israel's inception.
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http://s2.beta.photobucket.com/user/messiercat/media/zios/map-1.jpg.html
 @darren vandervort In 1947 Palestinians rejected the 2-state solution because they did not want Israel to exist. In 1967 Arabs rejected Israel proposal to return all teh territories in return for peace and recognition. Arabs rejected similar proposals in 1999 and 2001. They will not accept existence of Israel - period.
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As far as land - the map is misleading because first map on the left shows all the territory that was not in private ownership of a Jew as Green. The map on the right shows an opposite - it shows all the areas that are not in private ownership of an Arab as white and the map in the middle is a combination of both. Typical propaganda and lies. Public and uninhabited lands are colored selectively to distort the truth.
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For example - most of Negev (South half of the map) is almost uninhabited except for a few Bedouins. You can color it any color depends on your agenda. Gaza - the shrinking green strip in the south-west of the map is 100% Arab, so it is a lie to show any white spots on it. Also, this map fails to show that Israel gave the whole Sinai peninsular to Egypt in exchange for peace, Israel withdrew from big part of Golan heights and gave it to Lebanon, etc. This picture is a cheap lie and disinformation.
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 @Julie Thanks Julie for the well thought out post.
 @darren vandervort ... Looks to me like the Palestinians should have learned their lesson a long time ago...every time they start playing around with Israel they lose some more land....maybe one day they'll get the word - STOP.  You are only hurting yourself - but then for centuries they haven't figured it out....
We can debate the history of the region as long as we want (safely ensconced at our computers half a world away). We can get our facts straight or pull a total KHEB. We can either lament the deaths of civilians or shrugged them off. It doesn't matter. As long as rockets are hitting schools or 225 children are wounded in an airstrike, the violence could have started yesterday or 6000 years ago.
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At this point all it can do is escalate.The only solution is to set the history aside and sit down with your enemy. Normally, the more powerful side has to initiate this process.
 @Max Quinn >'The only solution is to set the history aside and sit down with your enemy. Normally, the more powerful side has to initiate this process.'
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True enough, but as PM Netanyahu so eloquently put it...Â
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"If the Arabs were to put down their arms there would be no more war, if Israel were to put down its arms there would be no more Israel."
@MarkKpic
I see what you're saying, but you don't have to put down your arms to start talking. We were fighting the North Vietnamese all through the peace process.
Netanyahu doesn't want peace, though. His political power depends on conflict.
 @MarkKpic  @Max Quinn Yes.
 @Max Quinn  @MarkKpic >'Netanyahu doesn't want peace, though. His political power depends on conflict.'
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Couldn't the exact same thing be said about Khaled Meshaal?
 @mikew You build a solid case for why the Palestinians should have lost their land - Arabs attacked Israel and were defeated. Now only if the world worked like that. Maybe what needs to happen is for you to sit down with the population of Gaza and explain that actions have consequences.
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From the Arab point of view (which I do not endorse but recognize as existing) the foundation of Israel in 1948 is referred to as the Catastrophe. It was not a painless process for the Arab inhabitants of Palestine - to ignore that is to oversimplify.
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And thus we get back to rehashing history and trying to settle scores that will never be settled.
 @mikew Like the one he drew?
 @Max Quinn Yes, he has. Do you get all of your political analysis from cartoons?
 @Max Quinn Max Quinn wrote, "most peace proposals involve re-establishing the 1967 borders." Only those proposals made by folks who are gullible enough to be taken in by the con that somehow, magically the "Palestinians" became a wholly separate group of Arabs separate and distinct from their Egyptian and Jordanian countrymen when they lost the 1967 Six Day War. And those folks who seem to think launching an openly-declared war on genocide shouldn't result in any consequences.
Sorry, no. The Arab Muslims invaded with the stated intention of killing Jews and driving Israel into the sea. There ought to be (and is) a penalty to that - they lost land.
 @mikew So the guy who drew a picture of a bomb and held it up in front the United Nations has been oversimplified?
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 @Max Quinn Your political analysis of Netanyahu's motivations are grossly simplistic and inaccurate. His Center-Right supporters do want peace are more skeptical of promises (since the "leadership" of Arab nations and groups have a long history of breaking promises when they find it advantageous.) The Israeli left has a pattern of accepting proposals and taking leaps of faith that "this time" their promises are made in good faith only to be repeatedly disappointed.
 @KHEB  @MarkKpic Yea, nobody is speaking in favor of suicide bombers.... And you are pretty much right about the Six Day War. It's after that war that certain territories became occupied and why most peace proposals involve re-establishing the 1967 borders.
 @Julie  @Max Quinn  @MarkKpic No it wouldn't. Israelis want peace, but he doesn't. During the Arab Spring there were also protests in Israel over social justice issues - Netanyahu offers no solutions there. In order to maintain power, he needs to keep the conflict going.
 @Max Quinn  @MarkKpic Actually his political power would skyrocket if he were to make peace with Arabs. Israelis want peace and vote for a party that is more likely to bring peace. Israelis, however, learn from history and know that peace talks is an illusion and the only way to bring security to Israel is fight the terrorists.
 @Max Quinn  @MarkKpic ... A couple of points for some of you readers to consider. Since Israel is blamed for "occupying" Palestinian land, and hence the fighting to reclaim it, can somebody enlighten me as to why, in 1967, when Israel was in what was recognized as The State of Israel, all the bordering Arab States attacked the tiny country with all the heavy weaponry they could muster, and there were no "occupied territories". These armies had one purpose only, to destroy the Jewish State. The miracle of the 6 Day War, when Israel defeated these enormous Arab armies, had never been forgiven by the Arab Nations who went to war, nor by the many Anti-Semites who report the news and others that write comments.  How can mothers send their sons to be Suicide Bombers - short memory have you - remember the second Intifada in 2001 when Israelis and also Arab citizens were being blown to smithereens on buses, shops and restaurants, many of the victims babies and small children. THAT WAS PURE EVILâ¦
I think that Isreal has been way to nice and accomodating to Hamas. I think it is time for isreal to take the strip and go house to house for these scumbags. Once they do that then there will be no more hiding places for the rockets.The end result would be a safer place for both the real Palisitinans and Isrea if they dont have to worry about Hamas. Yes I know Civilian deaths. In every war there will be the dewath of innocents, but that is war. In this case you can blame Hamas...
It is just about time for Khaled Mashaal to take a dirt nap.
There has never been a true lasting peace in the middle east in known history. There has always been one theological group that has sought to commit genocide upon the other. Even on this forum, people are going back to CE timeframes in order to create some justification for one sides acts of aggression against the other.Â
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For over a year, Hamas and Palestinian groups have been lobbing rockets into Israel. It seems a bit inevitable to me that eventually Israel would fight back. Rather than debating some ethical idealism about IF Israel has a 'right' to exist, perhaps it's time to recognize that it DOES exist. Instead, the individuals and groups who stand to gain the most by perpetuating a lasting dischord between Muslum and Palestinian groups continue to egg on the conflict because it fits their own theological and ideological goals.Â
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Israel has every right to defend itsself. Frankly, I'm quite impressed with the restraint they've shown thus far. If Hamas and other such groups continue to use citizens as shields for their cowardly militant leaders, civillians will continue to be casualties of the escalation of the conflict. You either want peace, or you want genocide. Pick one.Â
 @MarkKpic Good post - one minor correction - massive rocket barrages of Israeli cities have been going on since 2004 - way longer than a year.
 @Julie  @MarkKpicÂ
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According to Wikipedia (you know the undisputed ruler of correct information) the rocket attacks go back as far as 2002.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_and_mortar_attacks_in_Israel_in_2001_through_2006
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But don't worry the people are "safe".
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
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I swear I have heard of similar attacks before 2001. Indeed I recall that there were rocket attacks during the first Gulf War (not the ones by Iraq but from Lebanon/Jordan Golan heights area).
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Indeed if one were to ask someone under the age of 22, I bet they would say Israel has ALWAYS been under rocket threat.
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 @Repoman  @MarkKpic Very true - rockets or other forms of flying explosives have been coming down in Israel actually since 1948. Before Israel's disengagement from Gaza in 2005 rockets really became an almost weekly reality for many Israelis.
@MarkKpic âThere has never been a true lasting peace in the middle east in known historyâ. If 400 years of peace under Ottoman rule canât be considered âtrue lasting peaceâ than no area on the planet has ever known true lasting peace. Therefore, the âtruismâ that people often thrown out regarding fighting in the Middle East is simply not true. This can especially be seen when we count the 400 years under Arab rule or 600 years under Roman/Byzantine rule and the Middle East is actually looking like it was one of the most peaceful places on the planet prior to World War I. Granted, it's a cesspool now, and Hamas and their puppetmasters would like to keep it that way.
 @Julie @JTesla  @MarkKpicÂ
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There is enough historical documentation to imply that there was either; tradition of fighting and battling even under ottoman rule, or there was the kind of peace you got under Tito, an oppressive one.
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Either way, there is a history of the two sides getting alone. From about 1860 to the turn of the century there were number so Arabs who wanted to sell their land to immigrating Jews but Turkish law prevented it (you could call it anti-Semitism but I think it was mostly the Turks didn't like Russian Jews because they were Russian).
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Assuming the current Palestinians don't get themselves all killed off, there will eventually be peace.
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They just have not learned how much money they call ALL make if there was peace.
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Money tends to solve of grievances.
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@Repoman@Julie@JTesla@MarkKpicÂ
>"Assuming the current Palestinians don't get themselves all killed off, there will eventually be peace."
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If history is any example, I find that prospect to be exceedingly unlikely. While the argument could be made that up to the 'modern era', the majority of fighting could arguably be attributed to attempts to gain land, and therefore wealth/status, while 'modern era' conflicts are mostly founded in theological idealism.Â
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Many, if not all, nations are presently entered into some sort of mutual protection pacts with other nations. As such, the world has (mostly) seen the end of 'land grab' warfare. Theological/ideological wars are much trickier. Any nations attempting to wade into the quagmires end up (knowingly or not) aligning themselves with one side or the other theologically. Moreover, in such conflicts there is seldom one side of the conflict that is inherently 'in the right' (IE-Syria).Â
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There is an argument that could be made that the whole of the conflict is just a 'land grab' in disguise as a theological conflict. I don't know if I agree with that thought or not. Personally, I do believe that there are some within the radical muslim community who sincerely do believe that they are doing 'gods' work, and likewise within the Israeli/jewish community. These individuals, in turn, use their authority and influence to incite conflict under some theological doctrine that justifies genocide and war. It's simply the 'stick' version of the 'carrot' system of population control that is used here in the US. Either you do as your leaders say, or you get 'the stick'.Â
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>'They just have not learned how much money they call ALL make if there was peace.
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Money tends to solve of grievances.'
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To some extent. Money also tends to cause a lot of grief. The extended line of that thinking is how many wars (historically) have been caused by groups seeking to gain wealth or power?
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 @JTesla  @MarkKpic Even during the periods you cite, the infighting between religeous factions continued. I conceed that my statement was, perhaps, a bit of a generalization, but I was trying to avoid the inevitable theological debate points.Â
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...another point to be made would be the geographic boundries that frame the area referred to as 'the middle east'. Yet another observation would be the use of the inclusive term 'Arab rule'. Your statement of '400 years' of relative peace came under different leadership/ideologies that you are including under that heading. The transitions between those groups was hardly peaceful. Also, during Byzantine rule, there were skirmishes along the outermost borders of the empire.Â
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The whole geographic area has, historically, been one of conflict and war. Typically (but not always) incited under the heading of who's 'god' is right or true.Â
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 @JTesla  @MarkKpic Fair enough. It's easy to get  sidetracked in such discussions. I, for one, am thankful that I live in a country among individuals who can get 'sidetracked' without using guns or IED's to resolve such discussions.Â
@MarkKpic True enough, and even though I got sidetracked I agree with your main point: "Israel has every right to defend itself"
 @JTesla  @MarkKpic Ottoman empire lasted a long time, but the infighting among Arab nations never stopped even during the Ottoman empire or any other empire. It is true that centuries ago wars were more common than now in all parts of the world, but some cultures learned to be constructive, building up the infrastructure and growing economy, but other cultures are still cutting each others heads over whose interpretation of Koran is better.
in my opinion, the cause for Palestinian freedom sorta loses it's righteousness when Katusha rockets are used instead of diplomacy and understanding
 @archon312Â
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The newest rockets could better be described as "Grad" rockets, BM-21 or Upgraded Grad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grad_missile
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These are far better than the eelier Grads imported from Iran, or the old katyusha grad or the crappy qassam used as last as this year.
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There have been strikes as far as Tel Aviv. This pretty much puts the entire country under possible attack.
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This series of attacks will backfire (no pun intended). For years these attacks have been "southern Israelâs issue" (you no NIMBY). But now that the capital has been targeted I think there might be more motivation to occupy Gaza full time again.
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This really all started over 3000 years ago, when Palestinians (Philistines) sailed across the Mediterranean from Turkey to Egypt but were driven up the coast to Gaza, from where they started to attack the Israelites who were already there. Israel was weakened by invasion by the Babylonians (Iraq) , Assyrians (Syria), Persians (Iran), Greeks and Romans, who also restricted the Palestinians to Gaza. When the Turks (ethnically the same as the Palestinians) took over Israel they naturally gave free rein to the Palestinians, who spread into parts of Israel including the West bank, but never ruled the country. After more conflict, and following the Balfour Declaration of 1917, Israel's sovereign status (which had never really lapsed), was reinstated and put into effect in 1948, so that once again the majority of the inhabitants (the Jews) ruled their own land, and again, the Palestinians started to attack them. When they stop, Israel will stop retaliating.Â
If you vote in a terrorist government that insists on rocketing a neighbor don't be surprised if they retaliate. If civilians store missiles in and under their homes then they are no longer neutral parties and must take the consequences. As for the Hamas apologists ...ask yourself why it is that other Arab states do not support the Palestinians in the way they do the Syrian opposition.....They would rather have a stable Israel in place than Iranian backed terrorists holding sway from Syria through to Gaza and Iraq.
 @KHEB There is absolutely no connection between Palestinians and Philistines, other than similar sounding names. Modern Palestinians are mostly migrants from Egypt, Syria, etc and are not a nationality. They chose the name 'Palestinians' because that what many called this area before Israel was created in 1948. Before 1948 even Jews were called Palestinians by British colonists.
 @KHEB From what I have read, the anthropological evidence indicates that the biblical Philistines (a military rival of ancient Jews) were actually an offshoot of the Greek civilization and were not Arab.
@KHEB âWhen the Turks (ethnically the same as the Palestinians) took over Israel they naturally gave free rein to the Palestiniansâ First, the Turks are not ethnically the same as the Palestinians, the Turkish people did not originate in modern day Turkey, and second your timeline fails to mention the Jewish diaspora. By the time the Turks got control there were virtually only âPalestiniansâ there. History issues aside, I agree that if they opt to be governed by terrorists, than they shouldn't be surprised with the results.
 @JTesla  @KHEBÂ
Many people miss the Jewish migrations out of the Middle East and towards Europe.
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Many also miss the fact that a singular independent Jewish state never had been realized until the modern era. While there were many tribes of peoples, and there were attempts to create (sometimes by force) a singular king, it never really materialized. Â Indeed I would argue the first ruler of united Jewish peoples was Roman. Â
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Up until then they were partially independent, fully occupied or fully independent under two or more rulers. Â
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The ancient Israel is not the Israel of today. Â That is a creation in whole cloth by modern era Jews and Christians.
I think it's time for Israel to swat the annoying fly once and for all. Tired of hearing about this, either crap or get off the pot.Â
Perhaps it is time for Israel to clean out Gaza for good! Perhaps Iran could be included. What is the old saying? Cut off the snakes head and the snake dies.
WTF, is this news station working for the radical Muslims and Hamas? Israel has been defending itself from the barage of rockets coming mostly from the Gaza strip by the Hamas, which has launched more than 8000 rockets in the last 3 years at Israel, which is more than Nazi Germany launched at London in all of WWII. This media makes it sounds as they just walked in and started pounding Palestine, perhaps the news has sympathy for those who would like to see all Jews and people of the west die? The direction of the media and the current administration is a pathetic one!
The Palastinians have aligned and allied themselves with the terrorist organization Hamas and the terrorist State, Iran. They get what they deserve and provoke.
@Rob C 503Â Â I seriously believe that Iran has pushed Hamas (their proxy) to provoke Israel now to distract Israel (and everyone else) from Iran's nuclear endeavors.
@scared_citizen .......I think that's an absolute possibility and the strategy do Iran as they get closer to a nuclear capability.