New survey seeks answers about gays in Boy Scouts

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Faced with a backlash against their ban on gays, the Boy Scouts of America are surveying their members on a potential change in policy.
A questionnaire distributed to 1.1 million adult Scouts uses fictional situations to discern where Scouting's membership falls on questions of homosexuality, gays camping with children and gays in church leadership. It allows adult Scouts to indicate a range of feelings, from strong support to strong opposition to the ban on gays.
Some questions are direct queries of the respondent's feelings on homosexuality and children.
"Bob is 15 years old, and the only openly gay Scout in a Boy Scout troop," the survey begins its third question. "Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the troop leader to allow Bob to tent with a heterosexual boy on an overnight camping trip?"
But the majority of the 13-question survey is more nuanced, including two open-ended questions about the impact of either banning or allowing gay members. Many of the questions indicate scenarios that would likely arise should the ban on gays be lifted.
For instance, should the lesbian mother of a Tiger Cub be allowed to serve as den leader if the pack is chartered to a church that teaches that homosexuality is not wrong? Should a gay youth minister be allowed to serve as a Scoutmaster? Should a boy with the qualifications for Eagle Scout be denied the award if he reveals he's gay at his board review?
After the theoretical situations are posed, the survey then again asks respondents about their feelings on gays in Scouting. The Scouts provided the survey by email Tuesday morning to The Associated Press.
Long the province of a strict anti-gay policy that went so far as to put members found to be gay in the organization's secret "perversion" files, Scouting has now generally evolved into a sort of "don't-ask, don't-tell" policy concerning its membership — even if the "don't-tell" aspect means the national leadership has had to ignore news accounts of its troops publicly declaring their refusal to abide by the ban on gays.
That's already happening in some branches of the organization, including troops in Minnesota, California and Massachusetts, but few troops are eager to publicize their positions, which could end with the troop losing its charter for breaking with the central Scouts office.
The survey introduces the possibility of acknowledging those differences.
"Different organizations that charter Boy Scout troops have different positions on the morality of homosexuality," the survey said. "Do you support or oppose allowing charter organizations to follow their own beliefs when selecting Boy Scout members and adult leaders, if that means there will be different standards from one organization to the next?"
The survey questions are part of a semi-annual survey called The Voice of The Scout. It was distributed via email to registered volunteers and parents of Scouts of whom the organization had email addresses. Scouts alumni will receive the surveys in "the next couple of days," said Scouts spokesman Deron Smith. Current Boy Scouts weren't sent these questions.
The questions were developed by North Star Opinion Research, a Virginia research firm that says it serves political, corporate and nonprofit clients.
"We are currently in the 'Listening Phase,' where the BSA's committees engage key stakeholders for input and develop a summary report," Smith said in an email. "Part of this process is to survey a variety of key stakeholders."
Smith said the organization convened a committee in 2010 made up of professional and volunteer Scouts that to review the gay ban. After two years of research, Smith said the committee decided to maintain the policy.
In May, that could change. A proposed resolution that will address whether to modify or rescind the policy will be developed for the Scouts' National Council to vote on.
If the BSA succumb to this bullying approach, I think we should form a NEW scouts group called, "HSSA."  This stands for Higher Standards Scouts of America.  There will be NO special privileges given to anyone based on ethnicity or sexual preference.  No gays, no minorities, no tolerance of lower standards, no!  If you don't believe in a higher standard code of conduct, go join the Cascadia Scouts and be tolerant of lower standards. Then we can challenge the, "Other" groups in competitions, and we shall see who is victorious....
The BSA is making the mistake of a company that only polls its own customers, not its market.
I was a Scout in NYC in the 60s and 70s and tolerance ruled. We were Jews, Chinese, Protestants, Blacks and we didn't meet at a church. The focus was on nature and the outdoors.
The BSA abandoned its non-denominational roots in the 1980s and has been dominated by Christian conservatives since. The troops of our youth, often sponsored by firehouses and Elks, are a thing of the past. Membership has plummeted but not among conservatives. Today churches, mostly conservative, sponsor over 70% of troops.
The ban was implemented in 1992 as a result of Mormon pressure. Mormons are less than 2% of the US population but now control more than a third of troops. Mormon and Baptist Scouts rarely form mixed groups and often meet in churches and hold religious services. They seem to have confused the troops with their churches.
Other leading Scouting nations, including the UK where Scouting was founded, remain non-denominational and have no such bans.
I quote Scoutingâs English founder, Lord Baden Powell:
"Buddha has said: 'There is only one way of driving out Hate in the world and that is by bringing in â¨Love.' Scouting's aim is to produce healthy, happy, helpful citizens, of both sexes, to eradicate the prevailing narrow self interest, personal, political, sectarian and national, and to substitute for it a broader spirit of self-sacrifice and service in the cause of humanity."Â
I am proud that national polls show that 55% of Americans want the ban removed, versus 33% who want to keep it. If the BSA keeps the ban, they have lost America. They might as well rename themselves the Boy Scouts of Conservative Christians and be done with it.
@Bike Guy I'm just curious how the Scout Oath would change, if it would at all:Â
"On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.â
@Bike Guy Excellent comment and very informative.  Thank you.
the impact from BSA official embrace of homophobia is a finance kill pill for the scouts, to say anyone deserves to be excluded for what is a normal and natural is a part of their being is the sickness.
Now to their surprise, they find the money gone, as corporate contributors become afraid to associate with hatemongers, that OK bulling, homophobia, and denigration of the spirit of our youth with this pollution of mind.
@Jimmy Tee "finance kill pill" must be one of those slow acting kill pills. If they are hatemongers than why would the gays wants to join? I make it a habit to not join groups that hate me, but I am weird.
They're over-thinking it, just like the military did... and with that over-thought, they're making themselves look stupid.
Lets see what they do with the results. Sexuality should stay out of BSA. If someone is open about their sexuality, whether hetero or homo â Scouts is not the place for it. Moral character means discipline. That should include everyone. Save the sex talk for home.
@X5Â I agree 100% with this statement.
I think if the scouts want to have a survey, then let them do it. Then when all is said and done with, leave it be. Who knows how the survey will turn out and what rules or by-laws will be changed. All I know is when I was in The Explorer Scouts in the '60s and a cub scout leader and Boy Scout Round table leader in the '70s, all this hoopala wasn't even a topic of discussion, so people out there can see that it's been in the last 10 or 15 or maybe even 20 yrs., that it has come to light. Any earlier than that, I don't know. I do know that part of the scout oath says something like "Keeping myself morally straight."
@Bdou My dad was an Explorer Scout leader for 2 decades.  Back in the late 50s/early 60s he ran into an incident where he caught a fellow leader VERY inappropriately touching one of the scouts in a tent.  After beating the guy up, he drove him over 100 miles out of the High Sierras to take him directly to the county sheriff's office.  So incidents occurred then but for the most part it was boy-on-boy circle**** stuff....not that unheard of among young teenage boys. Â
Oh for GOD"s sake! It's the Boy Scouts. Sexuality should not even be brought up here! When I was in scouts and out camping, if someone brought a Playboy, they would be dismissed from the Scouts! Keep sex out of the Boy Scouts and you won't have to even think about who's gay and who's straight. It's even in the Scouting bylaws, sex of any type or discussions of sex for any reason is forbidden! If you go through life always worried about who's gay and who's straight, you, yourself, have some serious issues that need to be addressed in therapy! You're fixated on sex, which is a form of adverse perversion. Leave sex in your bedroom, where it belongs and doesn't matter to outsiders.
It sounds like you are the one "fixated on sex" because being gay is not all about sex. You do know that right?
@old_dollor What's the matter? Did I hit a nerve? Read what I wrote, not what you want it to read. I said get SEX out of the Boy Scouts! NOT GAYS! I never, NEVER, said being gay was about sex only! Where did you even get that? Yes, I know more about being gay than most other people! My career was in the art industry. My education has a lot of psychology in it. My private life however, will remain private!
It most certainly is about sex - otherwise it would not even be an issue!!
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@Sundowner @feral @old_dollor Everything we do in life is about sex, in one way or another.  I know you're not that naive.
@feral @old_dollor How is being straight about sex?  What percentage of your life with either a partner or by yourself is taken up by sex?
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@feral @MickRoh I think you're not too far off with that, though that may not be the MAIN motive.
@MickRoh Right. Don't ask don't tell.Â
I could have sworn that the BSA has the right to association. Why is it that so many people want others to give up that right, but they are not willing to?
@Owt_Raged if you want to be a girl go to girls scouts
@X5 @Owt_Raged Your comment is ridiculous and baseless.  Gay men don't want to be female.  So since you've nothing of any merit to contribute, shooooo.
@Sundowner @Reeldeal101 @X5 @Owt_Raged You can disagree with whatever you like, the fact is.....Many gay men DO act fairly feminine.  There is NO disputing that.
@Reeldeal101 @X5 @Owt_Raged That's your opinion, one I disagree with.  Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.Â
@Sundowner @X5 @Owt_Raged Oh, they don't?  Then WHY do they act generally like women?
An old saying is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" Â The Boy Scouts are not broken just because some fringe radicals want it changed. Â They have been doing good things for many years so let's not ruin it by making changes that will only pacify a very very small minority. Â
@Shadow Not allowing women to vote worked so well for so long, why did we change it?.?.  "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
@darren vandervort @Shadow Invalid comparison.
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@feral @Sundowner @darren vandervort @Shadow I give a rat's ***.
@feral @darren vandervort @Shadow And trolls shouldn't be allowed to troll.
@Shadow There is a reason they are minorities.Â
I would be more concerned about the 15 yr old gay boy  being in a tent with "straight" boys, not the "straight" boys being with a gay boy. There are those that would bully or beat up the gay boy so that they would not be viewed as gay especially if there were several boys in one tent.
Keeping gays out of the boy scounts is now an impossible task, after all same sex marriage is being accepted, same sex couples can adopt. Gays are in every walk of life and will be/are in the boy scouts etc. so guess it is time to find other things that need fixin.
@FreerideNOT Well said, and very true. Â
 Homosexuals, especially middle-school aged, are frequently the target of bullying.
@FreerideNOT Same sex marriage is being accepted? Can you rephrase that to say: has been accepted by some and forced on others?
How about I point out that in many states they have recognised that all legal citizens are entitle to equal rights/responsibilities under the law.
The USSC will soon hand down a little ruling that will overturn prop 8 and rule that all citizens are entitle to equal protection under the law. Thus the courts/clerks or others will be obligated to perform same sex marriage but will exempt religious organisations.
Laws are for the most part forced upon some of  us, think about it...tax laws, speed limits, pot etc. and no vote for the most part.Â
In another decade sexuality will not be the issue if we are still alive.
@FreerideNOTÂ Children under the age of 18 have no legal rights, or not those that a taxpaying adult does anyways.
And once again we have the majority voting on the rights of a minority... This will never work... If your scout leader is gay then he is, no harm done, but if he is a pedophile then he needs to be arrested... And that holds true if they are hetero of gay, man or woman, you touch a child you go to jail.. Pretty simple..Â
However, just because someone is gay does not make them a pedophile, let's make sure that is known !
@dougrpdx I would argue that pretty much ALL pedophile men that target young boys ARE gay.  If they are not, then WHY would they be sexually interested in boys?
Both pedophiles and homos are an abomination to God, and should be to everyone! So there is HARM done, whether or not you want to believe it. Both will face His wrath and judgment.
Agreed, rules about the # of adults that are 'alone' with a child or group of kids should be in place. Things that will protect kids from all types of predators and abusers.
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@feral @dougrpdx A gay catholic? Isn't that like saying a black white guy?
@dougrpdxYes but I do have a problem with a gay boy in the same tent as a straight boy for the exact same reason I would have a problem with some boy spending the night in the tent with one of my daughters. Common sense dictates separating those that are sexually attracted to each other at young ages to avoid problems.
So until we start allowing the Girl Scouts to sleep in the same tense with the Boy Scouts I think there needs to be a separation of gays from straights and sleeping arrangements...
Granted there is a slight difference in that the straight boys are likely not interested in the gay boys whereas boys and girls mix together might both be interested in experimenting but I still think it's a bad idea to mix them.
@FreedomRocks @dougrpdx I don't see a problem with a gay boy and straight boy sharing a pup tent.  Were you ever approached in a sexual way by a gay boy in your youth or a gay man as an adult?  If so, you probably found a way to respond with some form of "thanks but no thanks".  Fourteen year-old young men are every bit as in tune to their sexuality as anyone else -- they're not going to do something they don't want to do unless there's other issues in play (bullying, age of perpetrator, etc.).  I know I've been approached in the past by lesbians..."thanks but no thanks" worked just fine.
@FreedomRocks I have to be honest here -- due to my dad's and brother's involvement with scouting, I see it all as a very positive thing for many youth.  At the same time, I don't think gay young men should be ostracized and prohibited from belonging.  Jeesh, if a young guy dealing with his own identity/sexual desires doesn't have enough problems, adding an activity where he's not welcome can't be a good thing.  The real issue, IMO, is keeping pedophiles away.....very few pedophiles are gay though their prey might be of the same sex.
@Sundowner I respect your opinion and have turned down gay advances as a young adult but still don't think it is appropriate to put kids together that may have a sexual attraction to each other. Adults are mentally better equipped to deal with situations like that then kids are.
@dougrpdx Oh, we have a democracy hater here.Â
@TreeWizard Our country is NOT a democracy. It is a Constitutional Republic, which means the vote of the MOB can not remove an individuals rights. The BSA has the right to free association, even if the Mob doesn't like it.
@Owt_Raged @TreeWizard totally missed the point.
why gays can not open their own gays scouts club !!!!!
@X5 This fight is over, you guys need to find something else to hate.  I think intellectualism should be the next target.
PS: great sentence structure.Â
@X5 They did here in Portland. They call it Cascadia scouts.
@TreeWizard @X5 @darren vandervort I think that's a really unfair statement.  This newer group was formed for kids who either didn't want to belong to the BSA for reasons of their own (many parents have issues with both the religious part of scouting as well as the discriminatory factors) or for kids who wanted similar experiences but wanted to be in a co-ed setting.  At least be fair....you weren't one of those who ridiculed the kid in the picture because of the uniforms, were you?
@Sundowner @TreeWizard @X5 @darren vandervort Probably. Sounds like something I would do.
@TreeWizard @X5 did they let straight boys to to there and make changes there??
@TreeWizard @X5 Willfully ignorant, sign of a true 'merican.
@X5 @TreeWizard not sure. I think it just started.