No big compromises? Blame party power

WASHINGTON (AP) - These days, it sounds like an improbable fairy tale: politicians with deeply differing visions of America setting aside disagreements to reach a grand compromise on a critical issue.
That's exactly what happened in 1790, when the Founding Fathers overlooked their parochial interests - and defied their staunchest backers - by agreeing, for the good of the fledgling union, to put America's capital in a neutral place along the Potomac River.
Would the same outcome happen today? Fat chance.
In this polarized and partisan era, Washington careens from one crisis to the next even as the country faces huge problems that threaten its standing in the world. With power divided on Capitol Hill, bipartisan solutions are necessary. And yet, while both Democrats and Republicans talk a lot about compromise - a cross-the-aisle, solutions-driven approach - few seem willing to give ground to fix what ails the nation.
The latest example is the stalemate over deep budget cuts set to take effect Friday, absent a bipartisan deal. The cuts likely will inconvenience average Americans and may slow the nation's fragile economic recovery. Both sides are dug in on their ideological positions. President Barack Obama and his Democrats want more tax increases, while Republicans demand more spending cuts.
This is the fifth fiscal standoff since this period of divided government began in 2011, when Republicans took over the House while Democrats continued to control the Senate. In the other cases, both sides reached mini-deals to avert immediate crisis - only to ignore the larger issues. Skyrocketing debt and persistent deficits. Rampant waste, fraud and abuse. Budget-busting Social Security and Medicaid programs.
Why does Washington get so caught up this cycle of panic - whether manufactured or real - only to ultimately put a Band-Aid on the country's biggest gushers without ever mending the underlying wounds?
Politicians have little incentive to take the risk of working with the opposing party to reach solutions that will fundamentally fix a problem. They operate in a system that makes it hard to roll the dice because they're putting their own jobs on the line. Robust Republican and Democratic parties - and their conservative and liberal activists, whose voices drown out the centrist Americans seeking remedies - usually rebuke them rather than reward them.
"Rebels, risk takers and creative thinkers are marginalized early and are seldom promoted up the ladder of local/state/national politics," says David A. Drupa of the Society for Risk Analysis.
These days, he says, politicians seem to be allowing the short-term benefit for themselves - winning re-election - drive their decision-making, without getting far enough along in their return-on-investment analysis to examine the long-term benefit for the nation.
"They're trying to win the next battle, the next matchup, the next race, at all our peril," Drupa says.
Both parties promise to use their bank accounts to protect lawmakers who stick with their ideological positions, and punish those who don't. Deep-pocketed groups on the far right and far left also go after those deemed unfaithful.
At the same time, party leaders have proven extraordinarily successful in drawing congressional boundaries in a way that actually discourages House members from collaborating and all but ensures their re-elections if they don't. Most districts are stocked with hard-core Republicans and Democrats who typically will vote for lawmakers only if they demonstrate consistent party loyalty.
So the easy thing for lawmakers to do is just that. It's much harder to meet in the middle.
Thus, when Washington's players do end up compromising on the meaty matters, it's usually in a piecemeal way that kicks the larger problems to future generations. Those who dare to try to solve the big problems typically find they lack the juice, lose re-election or get so fed up with the gridlock that they retire.
All this is precisely what George Washington worried would happen if the country devolved into factions.
"He thought political parties would tear up the union and it wouldn't survive," says Willard Sterne Randall, a biographer and historian who has written several books on the Founding Fathers.
The first president's fear of factionalism was so great that he decided on a second term as Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson, whose political bases were businessmen and farmers, respectively, battled over competing visions for the union.
Yet while they differed, they also compromised when necessary - as they did during the "Dinner Table Bargain" that resulted in Washington becoming the nation's capital instead of New York, Philadelphia or elsewhere.
"They weren't at each other's throats politically. They could get together on a major issue," Randall says. "They wanted the union to survive, so they compromised where they had to for the good of it. That's the kind of tone there was. They were pragmatic idealists, and in Congress now, they are ideologues."
So how do we get back to those more reasonable roots?
The Democratic and Republican parties are strong, and they probably won't face serious threats from third parties in the near future. They certainly won't eliminate gerrymandering unless voters force it.
So maybe it's time for something radical, or at least radically reasonable. Maybe this is the moment for a few of the frustrated Americans in the middle - many of whom reject the extremes, complain about stalemate and fear for the nation's future - to take a risk.
What if they stepped forward as candidates with a promise that they'll do only what they think will solve the country's big problems, regardless of what it could mean for their political careers? What if they rejected the strict adherence to orthodoxy that party bosses demand? What if they promised to only serve one term, choosing explicitly to put the country's future over their own?
And then, by not going to Congress primarily to get re-elected, they just might end up with a surprising reward: getting re-elected.
Wouldn't the country - not to mention this supposedly neutral city on the banks of the Potomac - be better for it?
---
Liz Sidoti is the national politics editor for The Associated Press.
That's exactly what happened in 1790, when the Founding Fathers overlooked their parochial interests - and defied their staunchest backers - by agreeing, for the good of the fledgling union, to put America's capital in a neutral place along the Potomac River.
Would the same outcome happen today? Fat chance.
In this polarized and partisan era, Washington careens from one crisis to the next even as the country faces huge problems that threaten its standing in the world. With power divided on Capitol Hill, bipartisan solutions are necessary. And yet, while both Democrats and Republicans talk a lot about compromise - a cross-the-aisle, solutions-driven approach - few seem willing to give ground to fix what ails the nation.
The latest example is the stalemate over deep budget cuts set to take effect Friday, absent a bipartisan deal. The cuts likely will inconvenience average Americans and may slow the nation's fragile economic recovery. Both sides are dug in on their ideological positions. President Barack Obama and his Democrats want more tax increases, while Republicans demand more spending cuts.
This is the fifth fiscal standoff since this period of divided government began in 2011, when Republicans took over the House while Democrats continued to control the Senate. In the other cases, both sides reached mini-deals to avert immediate crisis - only to ignore the larger issues. Skyrocketing debt and persistent deficits. Rampant waste, fraud and abuse. Budget-busting Social Security and Medicaid programs.
Why does Washington get so caught up this cycle of panic - whether manufactured or real - only to ultimately put a Band-Aid on the country's biggest gushers without ever mending the underlying wounds?
Politicians have little incentive to take the risk of working with the opposing party to reach solutions that will fundamentally fix a problem. They operate in a system that makes it hard to roll the dice because they're putting their own jobs on the line. Robust Republican and Democratic parties - and their conservative and liberal activists, whose voices drown out the centrist Americans seeking remedies - usually rebuke them rather than reward them.
"Rebels, risk takers and creative thinkers are marginalized early and are seldom promoted up the ladder of local/state/national politics," says David A. Drupa of the Society for Risk Analysis.
These days, he says, politicians seem to be allowing the short-term benefit for themselves - winning re-election - drive their decision-making, without getting far enough along in their return-on-investment analysis to examine the long-term benefit for the nation.
"They're trying to win the next battle, the next matchup, the next race, at all our peril," Drupa says.
Both parties promise to use their bank accounts to protect lawmakers who stick with their ideological positions, and punish those who don't. Deep-pocketed groups on the far right and far left also go after those deemed unfaithful.
At the same time, party leaders have proven extraordinarily successful in drawing congressional boundaries in a way that actually discourages House members from collaborating and all but ensures their re-elections if they don't. Most districts are stocked with hard-core Republicans and Democrats who typically will vote for lawmakers only if they demonstrate consistent party loyalty.
So the easy thing for lawmakers to do is just that. It's much harder to meet in the middle.
Thus, when Washington's players do end up compromising on the meaty matters, it's usually in a piecemeal way that kicks the larger problems to future generations. Those who dare to try to solve the big problems typically find they lack the juice, lose re-election or get so fed up with the gridlock that they retire.
All this is precisely what George Washington worried would happen if the country devolved into factions.
"He thought political parties would tear up the union and it wouldn't survive," says Willard Sterne Randall, a biographer and historian who has written several books on the Founding Fathers.
The first president's fear of factionalism was so great that he decided on a second term as Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson, whose political bases were businessmen and farmers, respectively, battled over competing visions for the union.
Yet while they differed, they also compromised when necessary - as they did during the "Dinner Table Bargain" that resulted in Washington becoming the nation's capital instead of New York, Philadelphia or elsewhere.
"They weren't at each other's throats politically. They could get together on a major issue," Randall says. "They wanted the union to survive, so they compromised where they had to for the good of it. That's the kind of tone there was. They were pragmatic idealists, and in Congress now, they are ideologues."
So how do we get back to those more reasonable roots?
The Democratic and Republican parties are strong, and they probably won't face serious threats from third parties in the near future. They certainly won't eliminate gerrymandering unless voters force it.
So maybe it's time for something radical, or at least radically reasonable. Maybe this is the moment for a few of the frustrated Americans in the middle - many of whom reject the extremes, complain about stalemate and fear for the nation's future - to take a risk.
What if they stepped forward as candidates with a promise that they'll do only what they think will solve the country's big problems, regardless of what it could mean for their political careers? What if they rejected the strict adherence to orthodoxy that party bosses demand? What if they promised to only serve one term, choosing explicitly to put the country's future over their own?
And then, by not going to Congress primarily to get re-elected, they just might end up with a surprising reward: getting re-elected.
Wouldn't the country - not to mention this supposedly neutral city on the banks of the Potomac - be better for it?
---
Liz Sidoti is the national politics editor for The Associated Press.
And this is the reason I encourage everyone regardless of political persuasion to register as Non-Affiliated. The parties served their purpose and now it's time for the citizens to retire them.
All anybody can do is join one party or the other and start electing reasonable moderate candidates from within, OR abandon the parties and decrease their power which is happening whether anybody acknowledges it or not. The ranks of the Independent voters are growing.
You can't believe anything obama says. Â He is worried that the deadbeats who got him into office will turn on him and his party if they don't get their handouts. Â Besides, the people in office in 1790, which the article refers to, had a great leader along with mostly honest politicians, which is not the case today. Â We need to go back to the days of gladiators and put both sides in the arena and let them fight it out. Â My money will be on the Republicans, since the democrats will only shake their fingers and blame their predicament on the gladiators who came before them. Â Â
85 Billion in cuts  on a 3,800 Billion dollar budget is only a 2% cutsÂ
 I'd stay its a pretty safe bet  there is  A LOT  of  fear mongering  going on by the left
And it's most likely that the cuts aren't even that bad  if one considers the baseline budgeting with built in increases.Â
@kramr Come on kramr, you forgot to include revenue....sheesh, always having to correct you !
Are there any liberal Democrat's that comment here believe (honestly believe) Obama's list of cuts and loss of jobs etc...will actually happen exactly as he (Obama) stated if the sequester take place? I mean all of it, the air traffic controllers etc...Do you really think that will all take place? Â
@last boyscout How are firefighters and cops going to lose their jobs if they're not federal employees?
What happens if they shut down Troutdale Tower and nothing bad happens. Did any of you know, by the way, that they're trying to build an energy plant right at the mouth of the Sandy River, which will create steam plumes that will encroach on PDX-Troutdale's flight pattern?  Guess what will get the axe then.
@Playanekes @last boyscout There are federal grants to subsidize urban AND rural fire departments and police departments. That is probably what would be cut.
I haven't heard anything about a power generation project in that area ?
@sargerator @Playanekes @last boyscout They're phasing out the old NDB, and they can't put an ILS in because there isn't enough separation from the the bluff to meet to the regs for an precision approach.
Looks like if the tower closes, Troutdale will become E airspace underlying the PDX Charlie space. It might never be a problem but if it IS, we'll find out the hard way.  Remember that mid-air collision near Newberg right across from Aurora Airport a couple of years ago? Fortunately, they came down in fields or wooded areas and not Gresham. Guess we'll see...
@Playanekes @sargerator @last boyscout Interesting, pretty large too ! So I guess you'll need ILS on those cold winter days ??
@sargerator @Playanekes @last boyscoutÂ
Check out the Troutdale Energy Center, LLC. (653 MW natural fueled combustion turbine facility.)  There's probably a reason public attention isn't being drawn to it.
@last boyscout considering that those exact cuts are written into the contract, yes. Unless you can think of a way to keep operations going fully staffed on a $600 million smaller budget. Not likely.
@RamsesthegreatI just have trouble believing all of the cuts will take place. The teachers, the children, the first responders etc..it just sound so contrived. Just for the shock effect.
@last boyscout Don't worry, the Endowment for Obscene Art will not lose a penny.
Know where the monies going ?
10 Nimitz class aircraft carriers AND 2 under construction.... All the other countries combined have 11
US military bases world wide....560 to 4999....pick a number the us defense department doesn't even know !
And lets not forget the 200 to 300 (nobody knows that number either) military golf courses ! A nice read for your BP !
http://www.alternet.org/story/82009/the_military-leisure_golf_complex
So I really don't know where we could make budget cuts !!!!!!!!
@sargeratorIf nuclear-capable terrorist regimes want to destroy the US Atlantic fleet, Chesapeake Bay's military-industrial complex including the shipyards and workers necessary to REPAIR the Atlantic fleet, not to mention all of the other commerce in Chesapeake Bay, they will strike right now.
Look how the carriers--two nuke reactors in each, I believe--are lined up like the Arizona, Nevada, West Virginia... with what appears to be a Marine Expeditionary Unit and Okinawa-class carriers next to them.
http://news.usni.org/2013/02/08/navy-lincoln-refueling-delayed-will-hurt-carrier-readiness/five-carriers-in-norfolk
@Playanekes @sargerator They're so nice an tidy !
@sargerator @Playanekes A rich Saudi could buy old private jets at places like Aerotrader, learn to to program the Garmin GPS so they don't even really have to know how to steer it, and put a dirty bomb and a suicide bomber in it and program a geographically precise flyby at 450+ miles per hour, practically below radar.
An airborne suitcase nuke over the fleet would wreck it. If the "SeaWhiz" anti-missile systems are active and operate, they will hose Chesapeake Bay and/or Norfolk with depleted uranium and the jet will explode with its contents either in the bay or over the city.
The destructive difference between some carrier-launched Mitsubishi Zeros at 200 mph versus a jet loaded with explosives launched from Richmond or Atlanta is difficult to calculate.
@sargerator but we can't cut military spending. Gotta keep that Military Industrial Complex going so the terrorist don't win! /sarcasm off
@Ramsesthegreat And on the flip side, we canât cut military spending because it equals jobs. Members of Congress stop being liberal or conservative when a company with a large defense contract is located within the area they represent. Itâs the nature of the beast, a lot of money tends to do that.
@JTesla The Pentagon awarded billions of dollars to companies in Falls Church and Fairfax VA last year alone, for things like IT services and a device to load missiles into F-35s.
In 2012 we gave $100,000,000 for "Egypt Personnel Support Services" and, of course, something like 2000 M1A1 tanks and fighter planes, and God knows what to Israel.
The United States government is quite simply not on our side.
@JTesla Your probably right !
@sargerator You know that, and I know that, but getting members of Congress from where they are built or housed to know that is not going to happen. Â
@JTesla
It costs around 400 million a year to operate an aircraft carrier AND an initial build cost of 4.5 billion. With a lifespan of 40 years, that's 1.5 million a day ! that's for 5000 personnel. I figure if we dumped that kind of money into the economy to upgrade our infrastructure we'd gain thousands more jobs to offset the loss of 5000 !The war machine isn't an efficient way to employ people ! !
@Ramsesthegreat Ya, and I also fear that "mineshaft gap" too ! Dr strangelove is all too real now days !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKud6d0rfF8
Wow! *standing ovation*
Liz Sidoti, I cant say that I've read much of what you've written to this point, but I'm damn sure going to be watching for your musings going forward. It's a refreshing splash of actual balance and comprehensive thought vs what's currently offered by faux news or Rachel Maddow.Â
Well written!
'So maybe it's time for something radical, or at least radically reasonable. Maybe this is the moment for a few of the frustrated Americans in the middle - many of whom reject the extremes, complain about stalemate and fear for the nation's future - to take a risk.'
While I fully agree with what you've written, they would get creamed by the two parties in the press. The mainstream media is as complicit in the current political SNAFU as are the candidates and parties. Couple that with an electorate who relies on :30 sound bytes and flashy PAC ads to make their decisions about everything, and a large segment of special interest groups who are incapable of seeing the forest for the trees, and you have... well... the political climate that we have.Â
"That's exactly what happened in 1790, when the Founding Fathers overlooked their parochial interests - and defied their staunchest backers - by agreeing, for the good of the fledgling union, to put America's capital in a neutral place along the Potomac River."
That statement is so inaccurate that it crosses the line into shear idiocy.
When the Founders cited the capital in the South, nobody involved overlooked any "parochial interests." Everyone came away thinking they had won - the South got the capital and Alexander Hamilton got the Federal Government to assume the state's war time debts. Virginia managed to get a tax cut out of the deal.Â
There's never been a time when our political system has been a thing of beauty. It's made up of people - that's just the way things are. If you want a government that operates smoothly without any infighting or backstabbing, you have options: fascism or Stalinism.
@Max Quinn >'If you want a government that operates smoothly without any infighting or backstabbing, you have options: fascism or Stalinism. '
And you berate the author for statements that border on idiocy?
If either of those governmental models operate 'smoothly', it's because of the blood of the citizens used as lubricant.Â
Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government
c. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
Ironically, there are times when I sincerely have to pause and consider if the US form of 'democracy' is a 'fascist light'. The primary difference being that the 'suppression through terror' has been replaced with media dominated fear mongering and social programming.Â
The democratic process is a sound concept. What throws the proverbial wrench into the gears is the influence of money upon it, and the pervasiveness of idolitry within it.Â
Politics is a messy business, there is no way around that. Someone is going to 'lose' in every political battle. A part of the problem with our version is that someone came up with the innaine idea that the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. That truth is present on BOTH sides of the political ideological line.Â
@MarkKpic@Max Quinn "If either of those governmental models operate 'smoothly', it's because of the blood of the citizens used as lubricant."
That was my point. Sorry I didn't spell it out enough for you to comprehend without racing to the dictionary.
Can't argue with you that money is not the root of political evils.
But, I can argue with your need to capitalize the word 'both.' Are you trying to say the Barack Obama is the liberal equivalent of the Tea Party caucus in the House? If so, you are wrong. Â
It's much like your need to balance Fox News or Rush Limbaugh with Rachel Maddow. They aren't the same thing. Maddow actually practices journalism while having political views. Fox and Rush just have the views regardless of the facts.
@sargerator @MarkKpic @Max Quinn Didja miss the part where I called him an idiot?
You're preaching to the choir, my friend.Â
But, it's what pays for his gold plated microphone, so he persists.Â
Ironically, the people who so vehamently oppose him are arguably the ones who give him the most cred among the uber-conservatives.Â
@Max Quinn @MarkKpicRush is an intelligent and well researched speaker. He is, however, nothing more than a conservative mouthpiece. If you go into listening to him realizing and excepting this truth, he's actually pretty amusing.Â
Likewise, Rachel Maddow is an intelligent and well researched speaker. She is, however, nothing more than a liberal mouthpiece. If you go into watching her show knowing and realizing this, she's equally as amusing.Â
Both of them occasionally speak absolute truth on subjects, but more often than not they both offer little more than lip service to their respective political affiliations current talking points. They're both very skilled at it. It's what makes them their salaries. They can argue and support their own ideological beliefs and positions to exhaustive lengths, as you are also capable of.Â
Net sum, zero. Much in the same way that mater and anti-matter cancel each other out, so do Ms Maddow and Mr Limbaugh. They are only the most vocal examples of the partisan ideological extremes that inhabit our federal government.Â
You, apparently, find cause to side with one of them as 'truth' or 'fact'. I can also find (I'd guess) a hundred or so right here on these forums who would take that stance with Mr Limbaughs drivel.Â
Personally, I'd rather just recognize them both for what they are. Part of the problem.Â
Which is where I'm reminded of the words of Mark Twain;
"Do not argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
@MarkKpic@Max QuinnHere's a Rush for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8IocpkozQ4
So how did I oversimplify? More importantly, who's right about this - Limbaugh or Maddow? There is an answer that is factually supported and it's held by Maddow.
@MarkKpic @sargerator @Max Quinn Don't know of any comment that maddow has made that could even come close to limpballs comment about a young woman and birth control meds...that she was a "loose woman" and she should send him picks of here "heyhey" since she was subsidized for meds.
I had to change some wording, wording that limpball actually used on his show, to get this past the "word police"
@Max Quinn @MarkKpic >'Maddow on climate change: it's real and human activity is a factor. Rush: it's a conspiracy.'
Dramatic oversimplification of a complex subject matter. Thank you for making my point for me. Can you direct me to the specific show and line where flush said that 'it's a conspiracy' ?
>'Maddow's position isn't ideological- it's real. Limbaugh's is unsupported nonsense. There's no middle ground, there.'
No, but there's plenty of room for sniping, as your preceeding post demonstrates. Let me be perfectly clear on this, Ruch is a moron. A partisan hack and gets as much wrong as he does right. It's typical of the mindset that 'your' party is the only one who's positon is of value, or well thought out. Which is what he has in common with Ms Maddow.Â
>'You are the one with the security blanket, my friend. It's easy to say that because one side says something, the other side must be saying the opposite and the answer must be in the middle. That's not always the case.'
Can you reference for me where I made that summary?Â
There are specific issues that either respective 'side' have a clarity of thought. There are, unfortunately, a majority if issues that dramatically affect every single American much more where the ideological 'middle ground' is more correct than either extreme.Â
So, no, there's no security blanket. I'm fully aware that both sides are repleat with fear mongering and half-truth ideologies. I'm equally aware that nit-picking devisive subject matter can help to support one side or the other.Â
But, to paraphrase Maggie Thatcher; Standing in the middle means you get hit from both sides.
@sargerator @MarkKpic @Max Quinn Gender? Political affiliations? Hair color?
Limbaugh is a right wing blow hard. He's been on the air long enough that his net sum of gaffes exceeds Maddows. That's about it... well... other than my above summary of obvious differences.Â
@MarkKpic@Max QuinnNot quite.
Maddow on climate change: it's real and human activity is a factor. Rush: it's a conspiracy.
Maddow's position isn't ideological- it's real. Limbaugh's is unsupported nonsense. There's no middle ground, there.
You are the one with the security blanket, my friend. It's easy to say that because one side says something, the other side must be saying the opposite and the answer must be in the middle. That's not always the case.@MarkKpic @Max Quinn If you REALLY believe there is no difference between limbaugh and maddow then...well...you have some cognative disorder ????
@Max Quinn @MarkKpic >'Maddow actually practices journalism while having political views.'
Riiiiight. And Bill O'Riley likes to offer 'fair and balanced' opinions about things.Â
I got some oceanfront property in Nevada I'd really like to talk to you about.Â
Maddow is to 'real' journalism exactly what Limbaugh is. No better, no worse, the same. Slanted ideological half-truths intended to inflame a specific partisan group. She, just as her conservative counterparts do, finds specific examples within a complex maze of information that supports her predisposed ideological beliefs. She then seeks out only the extreme ideological opposition for sound bytes and 'typical' opposition positions. It's often referred to as partisan sniping. Rather than look for actual solutions to complex problems, it always boils down to 'my party is right, and the other guys are wrong.' Nothing more.Â
Sorry to burst your security blanket, my friend. But if you sincerely believe that your party is the solution....
You're a big part of the problem.Â
Just hand me the budget and a big red pen. I can make the necessary cuts.
1. Aide to countries that do not support us 100%.
2. Presidential and congressional salaries, medical care, secret service, travel on government aircraft, etc - after all, we ALL have to pay our fair share.
3. Stop purchase of 7,000 "personal defense" "assault" weapons. After all, grandpa's old shotgun is much more effective and easier to aim.
4. Stop purchase of 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammunition for NON-MILITARY agencies.
5. Obama-phones.
6. PR campaigns touting how all these new programs are good for us.
et al.
@Conspirator Not that it would make a sizeable dent in the budget or the deficit, but I've often wondered why taxpayers are on the hook for the bill for campaign stumping by presidents, vice presidents and current members of congress?Â
Would seem to me that the GOP, DNC and specific candidates campaigns should reimburse the government for such expenses.Â
...and yes, I know, in writing... 'by law', they are already supposed to.Â
Which, as we all know, means that it happens.Â
@Conspirator Congratulations, by cutting items 1 through 6 you've not made a dent in the budget or the deficit.
"et al" means "and others" It's merely a start. Your comment, however, is like saying that NOT buying that new car still not solve my budget problems - so I should buy it anyway.
@Conspirator Great, get back to us when you have a real plan. So far you are just repeating talking points that may win fans on talk radio, but don't actually do anything. I've grown tired of those who talk the talk, but can't walk the walk.
The hand-wringing middle is no better than the extremists. The existence of an argument does not mean the argument is illegitimate.
Budget slashing is not a new or untested concept. Governments across the world have slashed budgets in the current economy and the results have been disastrous. Great Britain managed to slash itself back into recession. And this is not an opinion - it's a fact.
So, in the current debate, one side says we need cuts to improve growth and the other says that cuts won't do that - and the facts support the latter. Democrats should oppose these cuts because that's the informed, rational thing to do. Anyone standing on the outside whining about how the process isn't tidy is making themselves irrelevant.
@Max Quinn It all depends what you slash. When I'm short on funds, I don't cut out mortgage and utilities. I cut going out to dinner, cable programming I don't use, wash the dog myself, etc. Why is it that a good percentage of the budget is fat and pork yet the only things that can be cut are essential services and programs? Like I said, give ME that budget.
@Conspirator Hate to break it to you, but you've managed to do compose a list above that does absolutely nothing. Try again.
@Conspirator @Max Quinn What? To prove what point?
@Max Quinn @Conspirator despite the "et al" at the end, cutting these 6 items won't solve all our woes. We shouldn't cut fat. Instead, let's cut defense, transportation, infrastructure just to prove the point.
OK we throw in a 3rd party candidate and what do you media types do.... ignore him and when you do see him you tear him down. Your as much to blame for the division that we see as they are, you have selected your man and we all know who that is.
@Great now what! What 3rd party candidate? Senile old man, Ron Paul?
@Ramsesthegreat Thanks for proving my point!!
@Great now what! @Ramsesthegreat a quality 3rd party candidate might stand a chance. Ron Paul is not one. The man basically believes the U.S. is 50 individual, interconnected nations with different laws and regulations. He also an extremely racist individual. Just the person we need for president!