Putnam County, NY, won't give gun info to paper
WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. (AP) - The controversy over a New York newspaper's publication of an interactive database of gun permit holders is turning into an open government standoff.
A county clerk has refused to release names and addresses of residents with pistol permits.
Putnam County Clerk Dennis Sant cites concerns about the safety of permit holders with protection orders as among the reasons for turning down a request from the Journal News. It wants information on who holds handgun permits in his county.
The move is backed by several local elected officials, including County Executive MaryEllen Odell. She calls the paper "reckless" and says families would be put at risk if the information was released.
But experts say the county will have a difficult time defending the refusal, because New York state law classifies the data as public.
A county clerk has refused to release names and addresses of residents with pistol permits.
Putnam County Clerk Dennis Sant cites concerns about the safety of permit holders with protection orders as among the reasons for turning down a request from the Journal News. It wants information on who holds handgun permits in his county.
The move is backed by several local elected officials, including County Executive MaryEllen Odell. She calls the paper "reckless" and says families would be put at risk if the information was released.
But experts say the county will have a difficult time defending the refusal, because New York state law classifies the data as public.
Good for them. Sounds like the newspapers are trying to bully the gun owners into fearing having a gun. The newspaper; have advertised where the deranged people who couldn't normally get a gun legally, know where to find one. If one of the people listed in the newspaper have their house broke into and their gun stolen and used, the newspaper should be sued for helping people who can't get guns legally find one.
The "smart" criminal wouldn't visit those addresses.
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They should publish a list of hammer owners.
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http://nation.foxnews.com/gun-rights/2013/01/03/fbi-more-people-killed-hammers-clubs-each-year-rifles
I am proud of the clerk that said no.
"A county clerk has refused to release names and addresses of residents with pistol permits."
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In my book, this clerk is a hero.
 @Playanekes The Oregonian, or Statesman Journal will follow suit real soon after that court edict last year. Not sure how to feel about it since everyone in my hood knows I am a retired cop and answer my front door with a high-capacity weapon - no trouble here...
 @boned  @Playanekes In Oregon the applications are public, but there is a process for making the information private, Everyone I know who has such a permit also did what they needed to do to make it private.
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From the Linn County Sheriff's Office:
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Oregon laws consider concealed handgun license application information a public record. As a public record, anyone can make a request for the record without giving a reason for wanting the information. There is one exception to that request that states if a release of the record would reveal or identify security measures taken to protect an individual (ORS 192.501 (23)) it does not have to be released. If you are obtaining a CHL for security reasons and want your information to remain confidential you must answer the two questions and sign the form.
I wonder how the geniuses who came up with this brilliant idea would feel were their names, addresses were made available to the public, if they haven't been already. Lots of gun owners are upset about this, including myself. And these gun owners, by definition, are armed.
 @Morgan/Wilson2012 The journalist and most of the staff who first reported this had his phone number, address, e-mail address, family names and photos of many of their houses spread around online within hours.
 @Playanekes Good!
The paper that is trying to print this information hired armed guards for their protection. Laughable hypocrites. They really didn't think their brilliant plan all the way through...
 @Bob McMasterson If someone's home gets broke into, their gun stolen and used in a crime; then the newspaper can be sued. They didn't think it through. Stupid people can only think so far ahead.
 @Bob McMasterson  I wonder if the names and addresses of the armed security people are available to the public...
 @ClackaSam  @Bob McMasterson Typically those who are in those positions also have concealed carry permits (unless they're a police officer as part of their "day job").
 @boned Even when the information isn't "public", it is still accessible to law enforcement since they need to know ahead of time before entering a residence if there is a high probability of weapons inside.
 @Jenni S. The other part of this is a preemptive move so the locals & feds know exactly where they live when it comes time to confiscate them. If Feinstein & Omama get their way, this will be fact and not fiction...
 @Playanekes They will succeed and there are two ways to look at this - please come visit me so I can eliminate you from the watered-down gene pool, or total disdain. I used to tell the skel's I arrested where I lived after they threatened to kill me and my family along with my dog and cat and they never dropped by...
 @Playanekes  @ClackaSam  @Bob McMasterson I get both sides of the issue - one one hand, people want it to be private; on the other hand they're filling out paperwork with the government, which is almost always public. Maybe they need to work out some common ground - police and such can have access to all the data, but the public gets only consolidated info (no names/addresses). It's just hard because typically anything that is given to the government (forms, documents, permits, etc.) is public record as long as it doesn't fall under health care or education. It's probably a good time to have a good discussion on why this kind of information needs to be public and how you can protect people's privacy at the same time.
 @Jenni S.  @ClackaSam  @Bob McMasterson There are politicians in Oregon who are trying to make that CHL information public record. To me it's an attempt at intimidation.
Good job Mr. Sant, finally a public servant with brains and guts.
Dennis Sant is a Saint.
Good for Putnam County, NY.Â
If I lived in the area, I would be more nervous about *not* being on the list. This is basically a burglar's guide to the neighborhood so you can be pretty sure which homeowners are not going to defend themselves with a firearm. I really don't understand the point of publishing this information.
 @badcat If would help the deranged or gangs know where to go and break in if they need a gun. Maybe newspaper is trying to draw the deranged people to these peoples homes. Newspaper people like to cause trouble for people, their intentions are devious.
 @badcat this data can be used to know who has or does not have weapons, simply put it can give the perps the necessary tools to see who can be easily victimized or not. It also can give them a heads up making them want to become armed and dangerous. In truth plain and simple..it also produces a data base in which people can be tracked and traced by anyone. This is very Dangerouse. it is worse the guns them selves. It is a form of invasion of privacy.
 @lee986321 Thanks for the insight, professor. I don't have time to tell you all the ways your comment is completely stupid. More important things happening right now. Feel free to skip over my comments and save your profound wisdom for someone else.
 @badcat oh and it is a way to instill fear into people as well. plain and simple.
 @badcatÂ
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BC I need to connect with Lips asap. I've sent her a couple of messages via this page, but she hasn't responded. If you have her personal email or phone let her know. She should know what its about. Thanks!
 @Scotty9 No problem, Scotty. I can turn on the Bat Signal any time. VERY happy with the news. Thanks, and have a great night!
 @Scotty9 Please let one of us know that the information came through. She's pretty anxious to hear from you.
 @badcat I think Oregon counties give the CHL holder the option of signing a letter to not allow their information to be released to the public.
@Saltire @badcat --- I received the letter twice from Multnomah County and opted out twice.
I'm very anti gun but this is a complete violation of privacy.Â
@momo ---HOPLOPHOBIA is term for anti-gun feeling. Let me take you shooting at my gun club and then see how you feel. You will receive safety training and firearms training, followed by unlimited fun and a sense of satisfaction.
@momo are you also anti-knife? re: the guy who stabbed 20 + children in China
 @momo Are you also anti-hammer?
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http://nation.foxnews.com/gun-rights/2013/01/03/fbi-more-people-killed-hammers-clubs-each-year-rifles
@momo You shouldn't be. You can get counseling for that at any local gun club or from the Oregon Firearms Federation.
 @momo It's worse then that because they only want it so they can publish and put it on the internet for everyone. It's not like they want to check one name on the list for a story or something maybe legit...
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Dare I ask why you are so anti-gun?
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Do you feel the same about alcohol which kills lots up people and destroys even more homes?
This is absolutely ridiculous. The public may have a right to know, but the individuals also have a right to privacy. And by publishing the list, the idiots at the newspaper make the gun owners targets of thieves and others who may choose to do them harm.
 @Mikey Problem is that the fact that it is public is put in big letters right on the application they fill out to get their permit. So they knew that this information could be shared with the public:
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"NOTICE Pursuant to Penal Law Section 400.00(5), the name and address of any person to whom an application for any license has been granted, shall be a public record."
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They put it in fairly large letters in an area with a considerable amount of white space around it. As such, when you fill out the application and turn it in, you know your information has become a public record.
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If people don't like it, then they need to work to get a law passed saying that this information is not public.
@Mikey And a person's right to privacy, as long as no illegal activities are involved, trumps the public's right to know.
@Mikey That's their purpose. The paper is using intimidation and bullying tactics. Typical behavior of socialists.
 @Spook89Yep gotta love the left for the hypocrisy and the fact so many are not smart enough to even see or understand the hypocrisy because they side with the paper.
We get ambulance chaser here all the time wanting to sift through 911 calls looking for potential clients.
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By law the data we have IS public record (redacted information about health as required under HIPPA).
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This is what I implemented. You need to make a "Jane" or "John Doe" request for an unknown caller. I made a program that randomly selects a call from our history and that is the call the Audio Reproductionist will send you. You need to make an INDIVIDUAL request for EACH CALL. Each one requires a $22.00 check and a self addressed and stamped envelope or you can come in and pick them up. The only thing you get to choose is the date range of the call.
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The inability of those ambulance chaser to get the calls they wanted meant that they ended the practice less than a month after it started.
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 @Repoman I'm kind of surprised he didn't sue about that. In most states that would be considered against the law, as the policies for payment and such are not supposed to be used to keep you from easily getting public information.Â
Always good to understand the intent. Why would one want to publish gun permits record? I think that it is because some people would do whatever it takes to discourage gun ownership. Dirty strategy - legal, but dirty.
 @Julie I like the guys that hacked into the news paper that posted them putting the 50 reports names and addresses as well as the company owners on the Internet. The biggest Irony is the anti gun idiots at the paper got scared and hired armed guards to protect them even though they want the rest of us unable to protect ourselves.
Driver's license info isn't public, but individual ones are available on payment of a fee and there is a paper trail as to who requested the info. A complete release of information on who has a firearm permit is totally wrong. Permit stats as to gender, general location, age are OK to release but individual info should not be released for a variety of privacy and safety issues.
 @jpk Problem is that you're warned ahead of time that your name, address, and that you have a permit are public information. It's right on your application. If you apply, then you're agreeing to that. Instead of getting mad about something you agreed to, you should work to change the law.
"...because New York state law..." Don't like it, get the law changed. Not everything that should be public is and some things that are public shouldn't be. This is one of those things that shouldn't be public.
 @JTesla Exactly. I went and pulled up the permit and it's right there in big letters in an area with a lot of white space around it so that it stands out:
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NOTICE
Pursuant to Penal Law Section 400.00(5), the name and address of any person to whom an application for any license has been granted,shall be a public record.
Not Oregon law being quoted!
 @jpk No, as we are talking about New York and New York law, that is the wording from New York.