Vatican digs in as same-sex marriage advances
VATICAN CITY (AP) - The Vatican is digging in after gay marriage initiatives scored big wins this week in the U.S. and Europe, vowing to never stop insisting that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.
In a front-page article in Saturday's Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, the Holy See sought to frame itself as the lone voice of courage in opposing initiatives to give same-sex couples legal recognition. In a separate Vatican Radio editorial, the pope's spokesman asked sarcastically why gay marriage proponents don't now push for legal recognition for polygamous couples as well.
Catholic teaching holds that homosexuals should be respected and treated with dignity but that homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered." The Vatican also opposes same-sex marriage, insisting on the sanctity of marriage between a man and woman as the foundation for society.
The Vatican's anti-gay marriage media blitz came after three U.S. states approved same-sex marriage by popular vote in the election that returned Barack Obama to the U.S. presidency, Spain upheld its gay marriage law, and France pushed ahead with legislation that could see gay marriage legalized early next year.
"One might say the church, at least on this front, has been defeated," L'Osservatore Romano wrote. "But that's not the case."
The article insisted that Catholics were putting up a valiant fight to uphold church teaching in the face of "politically correct ideologies invading every culture of the world" that are backed by institutions like the United Nations, which last year passed a non-binding resolution condemning anti-gay discrimination.
"The church is called to present itself as the lone critic of modernity, the only check ... to the breakup of the anthropological structures on which human society was founded," it said.
Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi, for his part, said gays can have their rights protected by means other than through legal marital recognition. He stressed that children should have a right to say they have a father and a mother.
"If not, then why not contemplate freely chosen polygamy, and naturally so as to not discriminate, polyandry?" he asked sarcastically. Polyandry is when a woman has two or more husbands.
"As a result, don't expect the church to stop insisting that society recognizes a specific place for marriage between a man and woman," he said.
The U.S. election had been closely watched at the Vatican because of the strong divisions that erupted during the campaign between the Obama administration and U.S. bishops over gay marriage, which Obama endorsed in May. The administration and bishops clashed more vehemently over Obama's health care mandate requiring nearly all U.S. health insurance plans to cover contraception, which the church opposes.
The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said the contraception mandate - which exempts houses of worship but applies to faith-affiliated employers - is a violation of religious freedom.
The Vatican's reaction to Obama's re-election was tinged with such lingering criticism, with Pope Benedict XVI congratulating Obama and praying that the ideals of freedom and justice continue to be upheld.
Lombardi went further urging the administration to respect essential values in "promoting a culture of life and religious freedom" - Vatican buzzwords referring to abortion, contraception and the insurance mandate.
It was a far cry from the Vatican's enthusiastic response to Obama's election in 2008. Then, the pope termed Obama's election an "historic occasion" in a personal note of congratulations sent right after he won, a break with traditional Vatican protocol that usually sees official telegrams of congratulations sent on inauguration day.
In a front-page article in Saturday's Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, the Holy See sought to frame itself as the lone voice of courage in opposing initiatives to give same-sex couples legal recognition. In a separate Vatican Radio editorial, the pope's spokesman asked sarcastically why gay marriage proponents don't now push for legal recognition for polygamous couples as well.
Catholic teaching holds that homosexuals should be respected and treated with dignity but that homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered." The Vatican also opposes same-sex marriage, insisting on the sanctity of marriage between a man and woman as the foundation for society.
The Vatican's anti-gay marriage media blitz came after three U.S. states approved same-sex marriage by popular vote in the election that returned Barack Obama to the U.S. presidency, Spain upheld its gay marriage law, and France pushed ahead with legislation that could see gay marriage legalized early next year.
"One might say the church, at least on this front, has been defeated," L'Osservatore Romano wrote. "But that's not the case."
The article insisted that Catholics were putting up a valiant fight to uphold church teaching in the face of "politically correct ideologies invading every culture of the world" that are backed by institutions like the United Nations, which last year passed a non-binding resolution condemning anti-gay discrimination.
"The church is called to present itself as the lone critic of modernity, the only check ... to the breakup of the anthropological structures on which human society was founded," it said.
Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi, for his part, said gays can have their rights protected by means other than through legal marital recognition. He stressed that children should have a right to say they have a father and a mother.
"If not, then why not contemplate freely chosen polygamy, and naturally so as to not discriminate, polyandry?" he asked sarcastically. Polyandry is when a woman has two or more husbands.
"As a result, don't expect the church to stop insisting that society recognizes a specific place for marriage between a man and woman," he said.
The U.S. election had been closely watched at the Vatican because of the strong divisions that erupted during the campaign between the Obama administration and U.S. bishops over gay marriage, which Obama endorsed in May. The administration and bishops clashed more vehemently over Obama's health care mandate requiring nearly all U.S. health insurance plans to cover contraception, which the church opposes.
The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said the contraception mandate - which exempts houses of worship but applies to faith-affiliated employers - is a violation of religious freedom.
The Vatican's reaction to Obama's re-election was tinged with such lingering criticism, with Pope Benedict XVI congratulating Obama and praying that the ideals of freedom and justice continue to be upheld.
Lombardi went further urging the administration to respect essential values in "promoting a culture of life and religious freedom" - Vatican buzzwords referring to abortion, contraception and the insurance mandate.
It was a far cry from the Vatican's enthusiastic response to Obama's election in 2008. Then, the pope termed Obama's election an "historic occasion" in a personal note of congratulations sent right after he won, a break with traditional Vatican protocol that usually sees official telegrams of congratulations sent on inauguration day.
The Vatican is upset that they are becoming more and more irrelevant.
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That means less money for statues, spiffy gowns and hats, gold and jewels, and hush money for paying off alter boys.
So you think that The gays won Won, am I right? Does any one know of the Historical non religious Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? Did you know that they were extremely powerful? The embraced "There is no Sin" doctrine and where did it get them? Now allow me to ask you this one point blank question. The City was Destroyed, and NEVER RE-BUILT ! Why is that, any one have an answer for that? Neither City was ever re-built. Please tell me why?
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There isn't even a modern day City in that region WHY!? the land is fertile, there are wells thatr can be dug, we have all the technology to build there but why aren't we?
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I would challenge any one with the money and power rebuild those 2 cities and retain there NAME and see what happens. So if there is no Supreme Being Known as GOD, then please by all means build there.
But if indeed there is a GOD! I would love to see what happens.
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Man is pushing his limits on the moral grounds.
Man has not learned one dang thing.
Man thinks he is doing what is right in his eyes.
The Rule of Man, is destroying this planet.
The RULES of man, is destroying man them selves.
You all think we are doing better am I right?
Well if that is the case then why is it that we have an increase in shootings, killings and so forth?
Why do we have Fathers killing there entire linage?
Why do we have the hungry and poor becoming poorer and why are the rich getting richer?
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It is because we the people have become complacent and dependent.
We fight for for trivial issues like gay marriage rather then fight for education.
Now what do you think the consequences of that are going to be?
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In short, Mans mind has become corrupt in thinking, in short, the computer has a virus in it and the computer is starting to fail. Oh sure you won't see the right away results. Like a worm this virus nibbles at the moral fabric of society bit by bit . But who cares, as long as everything is running ok..who cares.. ok once in a while we see a blue screen of death, but meh, that is ok...just reset the machine and keep plugging away...
But eventually the machine will fault and come to a screeching halt.
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This is where man is headed, he is headed for one giant fault. He is about to crash and burn.And He will be searching for any answer possible.
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And there will be one with the answer. and he will say I have the answer to you financial, medical, and worries of where you child is or your aging parent.
PLease come and take this chip, it will make everything much simpler.
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You think I am joking on this subject?
Look at a Texas School, they Forced the kids to where ID Non Passive chips.
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But you don't want to hear it, But I am going to say it any ways.
By Passing this it has unleashed a torrid of other things soon to come into play.
Oh forget the religious side. I am talking about other groups are going to come into play.
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You think Occupy is a pain, there will come a great deal more. You just wait and see.
 @lee986321 Lee, while your message is obviously important to you, to us readers, it's like sandpaper across the eyes. I'm not trying to be a spelling Nazi or anything, but do you actually read what you post?
 @Mikey Al spelllllllllllllekser don thouhindows 8if you havean ise tae it upwt Microsfto elo
@lee986321 @Mikey ok, dude, that hurt my head to try to  de-cypher that!
 @lee986321 Ah, one of my favorite Biblical stories.  And this is the account of the only so-called just man in all of Sodom:
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3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodomâboth young and oldâsurrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, âWhere are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.â  6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, âNo, my friends. Donât do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But donât do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.â
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I think you're backing the wrong horse.
 @Festivus eh how am I backing the wrong horse?
And yes I am familiar with the entire Story, not just bits pieces , including lots wife turning to salt. at any rate No one can live in that area, and yes, I believe we very well can have history repeats its self ..
 My point is that People will be come so corrupt that they will again do what the Sodomites did in there times. As one once said "there is nothing New under the sun"
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For the life of me what I want to know is why is man so bent on repeating things of ages past. at any rate.. All I am saying is that if we let this continue, we will be just like Sodom And Gomorrah. But then from historical side, they were engaged in all kinds of Hidiouse conduct other then Homosexuality.
Do straight people get married anymore?
My wife and I are straght. And, of course married. But, in a way, that realy doesn't count, I guess, because we have been married since 1989. So, in answer to your question, I wonder?
"The Vatican also opposes same-sex marriage, insisting on the sanctity of marriage between a man and woman as the foundation for society."
Well, in my opinion, you must get your own house in order before worrying about others'. I think the catholic issue with child molesting AND covering up said child molesting takes away their right to judge gay people for marriage. The priests that have been caught, the ones that have not been caught, and the ones that know about it and help cover it up are obviously gay themselves (what percent go after little girls compared to ones going after boys?).
 @iamtroglodite AH but historically screwing little boys was not a sin...there is an odd culture that you find in most countries:  the ACT is not as condemned as DISCUSSING and admitting to it is.  That is one reason child molesting in this church went on for so long - people KNEW but by not Saying or admitting to it, this sin could go unchecked.
But them Gay folks want to get Married and that brings their lifestyle out into the open..horrors. Well, one way to avoid this mess is for all gay marriages to be permitted outside of the Catholic church -thereby allowing most of gay people to choose to not be Catholic. Â The Catholic church is Not the only church'; by "digging in" does it hope to control all the other churches?
You make some very good points!
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I've always felt that any lost cause for any religion is a gain for everybody else.
Dig in your heels all you want, Catholics; it will make no difference. YOU practice YOUR beliefs and let everyone else practice theirs.
POPEÂ = Protector of Pedophiles Everlasting
Both the   Boy Scouts  and the Vatican  made major mistakes of hiding it  and they have learned a lesson as so have I. Never and I mean never allow a male homosexual  to be boy scout or priest.It would freak me out to know my kids camping with a gay scout leader or being  a alter boy with a homo priest.I know there not all bad but when it comes to kids WHY TAKE A CHANCE......
 @riderofthelegend There is a big difference between being Homosexual and a Pedophile. The vast majority of Homosexuals are no more likely to molest a child then the so-called straights; and the majority of pedophiles are not "homosexual".  Your statement promotes ignorance and intolerance.  I have had this same discussion with a church in MN, and a counselor backed me up on this with statistics. Â
 @riderofthelegend How about female leaders who think they have the right to observe your sons showering or in the bathroom? They get away with this by saying "It's their job." No one takes it seriously. Male privacy has to take a backseat to female employment.Â
How do you get the Preists to start chasing after the nuns? Dress the nuns up as alter boys.
Physician, heal thyself.
 @WendyTeagarden Caveat emptor.
When Religion starts paying Taxes, they can have a say in Politics.Â
@Lisa not until they quit with the hypocracy.
 @iamtroglodite Why should that be a requirement? Congress doesn't. :-P
"Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi, for his part, said gays can have their rights protected by means other than through legal marital recognition. He stressed that children should have a right to say they have a father and a mother."
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Seems to me that Catholic children should ALSO have the right to attend church and serve as alter-boys or whatever WITHOUT being sexually abused / exploited by the clergy, and then having the church hierarchy cover it up and deny it... Â or is that kind of behavior somehow construed as "freedom of religion:"...?Â
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"As a result, don't expect the church to stop insisting that society recognizes a specific place for marriage between a man and woman," he said. Â (from the story)
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That's fine for people who choose to belong to the Catholic church and to follow its teachings. Â Â But the Catholic Church has NO right whatsoever to force its beliefs or opinions on anyone else. Â Period.
I find it interesting that a religion who has many many gay priests and nuns is against gay everything. And the fact that its all guys making those decisions for all the catholics doesnt make anyone think they are doing that so no one else will think they are gay? I agree with Kyle. Stop pushing your lame invisible skygod rules that you cant follow on everyone else, mmmkay?
But if it's ok to be gay and out and happy, instead of closeted and looking for a reason to explain why you're not married, why on earth would anyone choose to be a nun or priest?  Kinda like their stance on birth control -- gotta make sure Catholics have as many babies as possible because new members only come from those who were indoctrinated from birth. No one converts to Catholicism, you have to be warped into it. This is all about sustaining their religion.
Everyone knows Jesus was a gay socialist pot smoking hippy that ultimately went in for a three-way.
@Icarus  He DID wear a derss........
Allowing same sex marriage basically gives people to do as they wish, just like freedom of religion gives people the choice to choose the religion they wish. Why does the Catholic church insist that their beliefs should be forced on everyone. It's their choice not to recognize gay marriage within their church, as it is with any religion. If you don't like gay marriage, don't get one. Abortions, don't get one. Contraceptives, don't use em. Simple as that.
the church is correct.
 @sortbait Spell check is your friend...please learn how to spell corrupt.
I'll never understand why Christians think homosexuality is such a big problem and terrible "sin". Jesus never discussed it, and it's not even mentioned in the ten commandments. You'd think they'd be more concerned about people worshipping idols since that made the big list ... oh no, wait, Catholics are totally into the whole graven images thing. Ok, you'd think they'd be more upset about people lying and bearing false witness ... oh no, wait, they don't have such a good record there either. How about keeping the sabbath day holy? Hmmm, Saturday night mass does free up your Sunday. Well at least the church was never responsible for murdering anyone.
HUH?? The Catholics murdered a LOT of people after the Reformation - you don't know church history very well, do you? But the vast majority of Catholics aren't Christians in the true sense - and just because Jesus never mentioned (that we have record of) homosexuality is proof of nothing. Paul mentions it in Romans 1, and it is against nature and an abomination in the eyes of God! Oh, wait - I guess you don't care that God hates it, right? Someday you will have your eyes opened - better now than later!
@musiclover The metaphysical concept of god is an impossibility. Religion is the world's oldest and most successful con job which started back in the stone age when some man claimed that he had magical powers to call game. It grew from there.There is a place and time for everything, Religion belongs inside of churches and reason inside of courthouses when secular law is concerned.If you want the freedom to believe in ancient stories.Please allow the freedom of others not to believe in your religious mythology.
 @musiclover [Sigh]  Ok, first of all it's called sarcasm -- might want to read up on it a bit, because people with low IQs tend to miss it. I'm very aware that more people are killed in the name of religion than for any other reason. Christianity has a long, rich history of murder -- not just Catholics either.
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Secondly, just because Paul wrote about homosexuality doesn't mean that we modern humans need to legislate it. Paul was also against women having any voice, but we let chicks vote -- are you ok with that? And no, I don't care what your "god" supposedly hates or doesn't hate -- keep your bronze age religion out of politics. Drink blood and worship dead people all you want, just don't use your myths to justify depriving others of their civil rights.
If they think **covering up** child molestation is ok and gay marriage is not, they are an abomination against humanity and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The big wigs are just as as the guilty Priests who victimize children for allowing them to get away with it. Now who's sick?
Both of these activities are SIN - so what is your point???
 @musiclover One is a horrible crime that seriously harms its victim(s) and a systemic pattern of deceit in covering up said crimes. The other is two people entering into a loving committed relationship with full legal benefits and equal protection under the law. But I'm not surprised that you can't tell the difference. I can only assume you're one of the maniacs who thinks that women should be required to marry their rapists.