Obama, Romney clash in high tension, high stakes debate
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HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. (AP) - An aggressive President Barack Obama accused challenger Mitt Romney of peddling a "sketchy deal" to fix the U.S. economy and playing politics with the deadly terrorist attack in Libya in a Tuesday night debate crackling with energy and emotion just three weeks before the election.
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Romney pushed back hard, saying the middle class "has been crushed over the last four years" under Obama's leadership and that 23 million Americans are still struggling to find work. He contended the death of the U.S. ambassador to Libya was part of an unraveling of the administration's foreign policy.
The president was feistier from the outset than he had been in their initial encounter two weeks ago, when he turned in a listless performance that sent shudders through his supporters and helped fuel a rise by Romney in opinion polls nationally and in some battleground states.
When Romney said Tuesday night that he had a five-point plan to create 12 million jobs, Obama said, "Gov. Romney says he's got a five-point plan. Gov. Romney doesn't have a five-point plan. He has a one-point plan. And that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules."
Obama and Romney disagreed, forcefully and repeatedly — about taxes, the bailout of the auto industry, measures to reduce the deficit, energy, pay equity for women and health care as well as foreign policy across 90 minutes of a town-hall style debate.
Immigration prompted yet another clash, Romney saying Obama had failed to pursue the comprehensive legislation he promised at the dawn of his administration, and the president saying Republican obstinacy made a deal impossible.
Romney gave as good as he got.
"You'll get your chance in a moment. I'm still speaking," the former Massachusetts governor said at one point while Obama was mid-sentence, drawing a gasp from the audience. He said the president's policies had failed to jumpstart the economy and had cramped energy production.
The open-stage format left the two men free to stroll freely across a red-carpeted stage, and they did. Their clashes crackled with energy and tension, and the crowd watched raptly as the two sparred while struggling to appear calm and affable before a national television audience.
While most of the debate was focused on policy differences, there was one more-personal moment, when Obama said Romney had investments in China.
"Mr. President, have you looked at your pension?" Romney interrupted.
"You know, I don't look at my pension. It's not as big as yours," shot back Obama to his wealthier rival.
Obama noted Romney's business background to rebut his opponent's plans to fix the economy and prevent federal deficits from climbing ever higher.
"Now, Gov. Romney was a very successful investor. If somebody came to you, Governor, with a plan that said, here, I want to spend $7 or $8 trillion, and then we're going to pay for it, but we can't tell you until maybe after the election how we're going to do it, you wouldn't take such a sketchy deal and neither should you, the American people, because the math doesn't add up."
Countered Romney, a few minutes later, "It does add up."
Under the format agreed to in advance, members of an audience of 82 uncommitted voters posed questions to the president and his challenger.
Nearly all of them concerned domestic policy until one raised the subject of the recent death of the U.S. ambassador to Libya in a terrorist attack at an American post in Benghazi. Romney said it took Obama a long time to admit the episode had been a terrorist attack, but Obama said he had said so the day after in an appearance in the Rose Garden outside the White House.
When moderator Candy Crowley of CNN said the president had in fact done so, Obama, prompted, "Say that a little louder, Candy."
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has taken responsibility for the death of Ambassador L. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans, but Obama said bluntly, "I'm the president, and I'm always responsible."
Romney said it was "troubling" that Obama continued with a campaign event in Las Vegas on the day after the attack in Libya, an event the Republican said had "symbolic significance and perhaps even material significance."
Obama seemed to bristle. He said it was offensive for anyone to allege that he or anyone in his administration had used the incident for political purposes. "That's not what I do."
According to the transcript, Obama said on Sept. 12, "No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for."
One intense exchange focused on competing claims about whether energy production is increasing or slowing. Obama accused Romney of misrepresenting what has happened — a theme he returned to time and again. Romney strode across the stage to confront Obama face to face, just feet from the audience.
Both men pledged a better economic future to a young man who asked the first question, a member of a pre-selected audience of 82 uncommitted voters.
Then the president's determination to show a more aggressive side became evident.
"That's been his philosophy in the private sector," Obama said of his rival. "That's been his philosophy as governor. That's been his philosophy as a presidential candidate. You can make a lot of money and pay lower tax rates than somebody who makes a lot less."
"You can ship jobs overseas and get tax breaks for it. You can invest in a company, bankrupt it, lay off the workers, strip away their pensions and you still make money. That's exactly the philosophy that we've seen in place for the last decade," the president said in a scorching summation.
Unable to respond at length because of the debate's rules, Romney said the accusations were "way off the mark."
But moments later, he reminded the national television audience of the nation's painfully slow recovery from the worst recession in decades.
There are "23 million people struggling to find a job. ... The president's policies have been exercised over the last four years and they haven't put America back to work," he said. "We have fewer people working today than when he took office."
Economic growth has been slow throughout Obama's term in office, and unemployment only recently dipped below 8 percent for the first time since he moved into the White House. Romney noted that if out-of-work Americans who no longer look for jobs were counted, the unemployment rate would be 10.7 percent.
Both men had rehearsed extensively for the encounter, a turnabout for Obama.
"I had a bad night," the president conceded, days after he and Romney shared a stage for the first time, in Denver. His aides made it known he didn't intend to be as deferential to his challenger this time, and the presidential party decamped for a resort in Williamsburg, Va., for rehearsals that consumed the better part of three days.
Romney rehearsed in Massachusetts and again after arriving on Long Island on debate day, with less to make up for.
Asked Tuesday night by one member of the audience how he would differ from former President George W. Bush, the last Republican to hold the office, Romney said, "We are different people and these are different times."
He said he would attempt to balance the budget, something Bush was unsuccessful in doing, get tougher on China and work more aggressively to expand trade.
Obama jumped in with his own predictions — not nearly as favorable to the man a few feet away on stage. He said the former president didn't attempt to cut off federal funding for Planned Parenthood or turn Medicare into a voucher system.
Though the questions were from undecided voters inside the hall — in a deeply Democratic state — the audience that mattered most watched on television and was counted in the tens of millions. Crucially important: viewers in the nine battlegrounds where the race is likely to be settled.
The final debate, next Monday in Florida, will be devoted to foreign policy.
Opinion polls made the race a close one, with Obama leading in some national surveys and Romney in others. Despite the Republican's clear gains in surveys in recent days, the president led in several polls of Wisconsin and Ohio, two key Midwestern battlegrounds where Romney and running mate Paul Ryan are campaigning heavily.
Barring a last-minute shift in the campaign, Obama is on course to win states and the District of Columbia that account for 237 of the 270 electoral votes needed for victory. The same is true for Romney in states with 191 electoral votes.
The remaining 110 electoral votes are divided among the hotly contested battleground states of Florida (29), North Carolina (15), Virginia (13) New Hampshire (4), Iowa (6), Colorado (9), Nevada (6), Ohio (18) and Wisconsin (10).
Obama has campaigned in the past several days by accusing Romney of running away from some of the conservative positions he took for tax cuts and against abortion earlier in the year when he was trying to win the Republican nomination.
"Maybe you're wondering what to believe about Mitt Romney," says one ad, designed to remind voters of the Republican's strong opposition to abortion except in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at stake.
Romney countered by stressing both in person and through his television advertising the slow pace of the economic recovery, which has left growth sluggish and unemployment high throughout Obama's term. Joblessness recently declined to 7.8 percent, dropping below 8 percent for the first time since the president took office.
___
Associated Press writers Julie Pace in New York, Julie Carr Smyth in Columbus, Ohio, and Matthew Lee in Lima, Peru, contributed to this story. Espo reported from Washington.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press.
Watch the debate:
Watch the debate
Romney pushed back hard, saying the middle class "has been crushed over the last four years" under Obama's leadership and that 23 million Americans are still struggling to find work. He contended the death of the U.S. ambassador to Libya was part of an unraveling of the administration's foreign policy.
The president was feistier from the outset than he had been in their initial encounter two weeks ago, when he turned in a listless performance that sent shudders through his supporters and helped fuel a rise by Romney in opinion polls nationally and in some battleground states.
When Romney said Tuesday night that he had a five-point plan to create 12 million jobs, Obama said, "Gov. Romney says he's got a five-point plan. Gov. Romney doesn't have a five-point plan. He has a one-point plan. And that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules."
Obama and Romney disagreed, forcefully and repeatedly — about taxes, the bailout of the auto industry, measures to reduce the deficit, energy, pay equity for women and health care as well as foreign policy across 90 minutes of a town-hall style debate.
Immigration prompted yet another clash, Romney saying Obama had failed to pursue the comprehensive legislation he promised at the dawn of his administration, and the president saying Republican obstinacy made a deal impossible.
Romney gave as good as he got.
"You'll get your chance in a moment. I'm still speaking," the former Massachusetts governor said at one point while Obama was mid-sentence, drawing a gasp from the audience. He said the president's policies had failed to jumpstart the economy and had cramped energy production.
The open-stage format left the two men free to stroll freely across a red-carpeted stage, and they did. Their clashes crackled with energy and tension, and the crowd watched raptly as the two sparred while struggling to appear calm and affable before a national television audience.
While most of the debate was focused on policy differences, there was one more-personal moment, when Obama said Romney had investments in China.
"Mr. President, have you looked at your pension?" Romney interrupted.
"You know, I don't look at my pension. It's not as big as yours," shot back Obama to his wealthier rival.
Obama noted Romney's business background to rebut his opponent's plans to fix the economy and prevent federal deficits from climbing ever higher.
"Now, Gov. Romney was a very successful investor. If somebody came to you, Governor, with a plan that said, here, I want to spend $7 or $8 trillion, and then we're going to pay for it, but we can't tell you until maybe after the election how we're going to do it, you wouldn't take such a sketchy deal and neither should you, the American people, because the math doesn't add up."
Countered Romney, a few minutes later, "It does add up."
Under the format agreed to in advance, members of an audience of 82 uncommitted voters posed questions to the president and his challenger.
Nearly all of them concerned domestic policy until one raised the subject of the recent death of the U.S. ambassador to Libya in a terrorist attack at an American post in Benghazi. Romney said it took Obama a long time to admit the episode had been a terrorist attack, but Obama said he had said so the day after in an appearance in the Rose Garden outside the White House.
When moderator Candy Crowley of CNN said the president had in fact done so, Obama, prompted, "Say that a little louder, Candy."
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has taken responsibility for the death of Ambassador L. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans, but Obama said bluntly, "I'm the president, and I'm always responsible."
Romney said it was "troubling" that Obama continued with a campaign event in Las Vegas on the day after the attack in Libya, an event the Republican said had "symbolic significance and perhaps even material significance."
Obama seemed to bristle. He said it was offensive for anyone to allege that he or anyone in his administration had used the incident for political purposes. "That's not what I do."
According to the transcript, Obama said on Sept. 12, "No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for."
One intense exchange focused on competing claims about whether energy production is increasing or slowing. Obama accused Romney of misrepresenting what has happened — a theme he returned to time and again. Romney strode across the stage to confront Obama face to face, just feet from the audience.
Both men pledged a better economic future to a young man who asked the first question, a member of a pre-selected audience of 82 uncommitted voters.
Then the president's determination to show a more aggressive side became evident.
"That's been his philosophy in the private sector," Obama said of his rival. "That's been his philosophy as governor. That's been his philosophy as a presidential candidate. You can make a lot of money and pay lower tax rates than somebody who makes a lot less."
"You can ship jobs overseas and get tax breaks for it. You can invest in a company, bankrupt it, lay off the workers, strip away their pensions and you still make money. That's exactly the philosophy that we've seen in place for the last decade," the president said in a scorching summation.
Unable to respond at length because of the debate's rules, Romney said the accusations were "way off the mark."
But moments later, he reminded the national television audience of the nation's painfully slow recovery from the worst recession in decades.
There are "23 million people struggling to find a job. ... The president's policies have been exercised over the last four years and they haven't put America back to work," he said. "We have fewer people working today than when he took office."
Economic growth has been slow throughout Obama's term in office, and unemployment only recently dipped below 8 percent for the first time since he moved into the White House. Romney noted that if out-of-work Americans who no longer look for jobs were counted, the unemployment rate would be 10.7 percent.
Both men had rehearsed extensively for the encounter, a turnabout for Obama.
"I had a bad night," the president conceded, days after he and Romney shared a stage for the first time, in Denver. His aides made it known he didn't intend to be as deferential to his challenger this time, and the presidential party decamped for a resort in Williamsburg, Va., for rehearsals that consumed the better part of three days.
Romney rehearsed in Massachusetts and again after arriving on Long Island on debate day, with less to make up for.
Asked Tuesday night by one member of the audience how he would differ from former President George W. Bush, the last Republican to hold the office, Romney said, "We are different people and these are different times."
He said he would attempt to balance the budget, something Bush was unsuccessful in doing, get tougher on China and work more aggressively to expand trade.
Obama jumped in with his own predictions — not nearly as favorable to the man a few feet away on stage. He said the former president didn't attempt to cut off federal funding for Planned Parenthood or turn Medicare into a voucher system.
Though the questions were from undecided voters inside the hall — in a deeply Democratic state — the audience that mattered most watched on television and was counted in the tens of millions. Crucially important: viewers in the nine battlegrounds where the race is likely to be settled.
The final debate, next Monday in Florida, will be devoted to foreign policy.
Opinion polls made the race a close one, with Obama leading in some national surveys and Romney in others. Despite the Republican's clear gains in surveys in recent days, the president led in several polls of Wisconsin and Ohio, two key Midwestern battlegrounds where Romney and running mate Paul Ryan are campaigning heavily.
Barring a last-minute shift in the campaign, Obama is on course to win states and the District of Columbia that account for 237 of the 270 electoral votes needed for victory. The same is true for Romney in states with 191 electoral votes.
The remaining 110 electoral votes are divided among the hotly contested battleground states of Florida (29), North Carolina (15), Virginia (13) New Hampshire (4), Iowa (6), Colorado (9), Nevada (6), Ohio (18) and Wisconsin (10).
Obama has campaigned in the past several days by accusing Romney of running away from some of the conservative positions he took for tax cuts and against abortion earlier in the year when he was trying to win the Republican nomination.
"Maybe you're wondering what to believe about Mitt Romney," says one ad, designed to remind voters of the Republican's strong opposition to abortion except in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at stake.
Romney countered by stressing both in person and through his television advertising the slow pace of the economic recovery, which has left growth sluggish and unemployment high throughout Obama's term. Joblessness recently declined to 7.8 percent, dropping below 8 percent for the first time since the president took office.
___
Associated Press writers Julie Pace in New York, Julie Carr Smyth in Columbus, Ohio, and Matthew Lee in Lima, Peru, contributed to this story. Espo reported from Washington.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press.
Watch the debate:
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
These debates are a joke, it's just reality TV at it's worst! If you actually paid attention to the questions and the answers, you will see the questions were never answered. Our country is doomed no matter which one of these two clowns gets elected. Obama is a tax and over spend liberal, and Romney is just a slow motion version of Obama. As soon as America wakes up and sees that there is no difference between the parties anymore except for a couple social issues, and demands a better candidate, we will be doomed to failure over and over again. It's time for a third party to take over who will do the will of the people, not special interests and big multinational corporations. Our Fore Fathers warned about having parties, we should have listened.
It looked to me like Mr. Romney got hit with a mac truck. He had crazy eyes all throughout the debate, I believe it was fear because Mr. Obama kept at him and would call him on his lies. Yes I said lies. He tried to bully his way and then like a spoiled child whinned about having the last say. All I could see was the scared little boy that cut the hair off of a classmate and laughed about it to his friends. I still don't know where he stands! My husband (also a republican) doesn't either because what he said last night wasn't what he said in the last debate. If I don't know where stands how can I support him? And, i'm not going to vote for him just to vote against Obama.
 @pattypepper Vote for Gary Johnson.
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 @wahoo Nobody wiped the floor with anybody. They both looked like a couple of idiots!
Romney will never live down this. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M2gvY2wqI7M
Mark Halperin on MSNBC this morning drew the same observation that we heard from the Frank Lutz focus group last night: Obama said nothing about what he would do in a second term except for repeating the same promises he made in 2008. In the CNN poll, Obama was deemed a narrow winner on style points, but they gave Romney a HUGE advantage on dealing with the economy, taxes, and the deficit, and a 3-point edge on health care. So declaring who "won" the debate seems to be a useless exercise... the voters were looking for substance, and only Romney gave it to them. With a LOT of help from his friends (moderator, timer) Obama may have eked out a draw. No better. Since he did have a lot of help, he is just the same old loser who had a Red Bull in him. He's a liar and a joke and needs to be shown the way to the door.
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Get out there and get your free Obama cell phone, now while you can!!  He will be out soon and so will your government handouts. And if you did not know about this... well look it up. That wonderful little fed tax on your cell phone bill that keeps growing.. yeah that one... the one you pay every month.. it is paying for all those free Obama cell phones. FACT.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218841/Presidential-Debate-2012-Outrage-moderator-Candy-Crowley-sides-Obama.html
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And she was wrong!!  Ha Ha
Mr. Achilles I feel that if you are going to state something it should be by a neutral source don't you? This is an English conservative newspaper right? Also why would you use a source that is not American?  However, using your source is like me asking a Obama supporter if Obama won. A neutral source would lend more credibility for your position don't you think?
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Hand picked audience questions are so boring. We need to separate the men from the boys by keeping them on their toes when an out-of-the-blue question comes up.
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Obama: if re-elected, do you plan to keep going budget-less again?
Obama: If re-installed, will you be spending taxpayer money again on soon to be bankrupted "green" energy companies?
Obama: Why is Hillary under your Bus?
Obama: Why did you lie for days about some video causing the death of our Ambassador, when within hours the White House knew it was a terrorist attack?
Obama: Why did you go to the UN and kiss the *ss of the Muslim world?
Mitt won again ! ! Â We need a new president, obama is destroying America.
 @sortbait Personally, I think Romney's track record of handling finances and business put Obama's to shame. But I don't know if the debate really amounts to more than a tie. Obama, say some, scored a few more points. And Romney probably left the biggest lasting impression when he laid out in detail the dismal track record of Obama, point by point.
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The greatest lasting impression is probably worth more than winning on points. And in this debate like the last one, Romney's gain was Americans seeing he's not what the Obama ads painted him to be. Even if people do not agree with Romney on everything, the fact they got to see who he really is, was valuable. It was not the same Romney as the attack ads portrayed.
Candy's favoritism pays off. Maybe Obama can get back some of the women Biden scared away.
Quando:Â
One common tactic that Satan uses to deceive people is to claim new revelations that aren't in the Bible. His bag of tricks includes written "revelations" like the Book of Mormon, the Urantia book and the Koran. It also includes direct spiritual revelations like the alleged Marian apparitions. These extra-Biblical revelations are often very seductive because they offer alleged secret knowledge that wasn't revealed in the Bible. Books like the Urantia book are even more seductive because of their elaborate, in-depth expose of the spiritual world and the alleged universes beyond our own.
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 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1 Peter 5:8
Romney scares me. I just want him and Anne to go away for good. Go live in Switzerland, or the Cayman Islands, or go back to Mexico. President Obama won this one tonight. I've never seen him look that angry. It matched how I was feeling, watching Robme lie, lie, lie. The Mormons call it Lying for the Lord, milk before meat. <Google those terms, see it for yourself.
 @QuandoQuandoQuando Sorry I must have been watching a different debate or you are so left biased you can't see the truth. There was a lot of lying going on mostly by one guy until the moderator decided to jump into the lying. I feel sorry you are so misguided you can't see the truth about which one is the moral and ethical guy and which one is a snake trying not to shed its skin on live TV.
What the hell debate were you watching. Obama lied so many times the fact checkers will be busy for days on his claims alone.   Candy the moderator did fine job saving his butt atleast once where she had no business sticking her biases nose in.Â
@QuandoQuandoQuando yeah because everything you read on the internet is true? LMAO obama was sooo mad because he knew he was wrong and mitt pointed it out
:))) OBAMA 2012
 @eyeonchina 22 trillion debt, 8% unemployment, $6 dollar gas, poor healthcare, no jobs 2016!!!!
Obama's running game greatly benefited from his 350 pound blocker.... Candy the Hutt.
His five point plan fast, went to one point and that is true! tax breaks that are for romney are less then the average person! He failed on women's rights . He could not attack abortion he flipped to much on this issue. Also women don't have the time to spend at work because of child care. Well, there are plenty of qualified women that do not have children to care for! No he said, i have not committed to equal pay and sited some women's list. Obama slammed him on the name and reputation. lybia was precious , Speak a little louder candy, Mitt went straight to his chair an plopped to the seat in desperation. IN the End Romney could not find any thing like able in his personality or policies. Obama stacked the deck on outsourcing jobs and getting education for American students! the 47% was the nights kicker, He pointed that his father did fight in the war. then oabam hammer home how mitt had insulted the elderly and middle income!
 @noneofyourbizzness Then explain why Obama has failed the country with added almost $6 trillion to the deficit when he promised to cut it in half? Explain his support of redistribution?
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I think you are going to vote for Obama on one issue and one only - his support for same sex marriage. To vote for a candidate based on one issue is just plain foolish. Take off your blinders.
@scoreboard @noneofyourbizzness Women's issues are important to me as well.Read about the attitude his religion has toward women and that will tell you more about how he looks at women. He approached Candy Crawley in a body threatening way, wagging his finger at her as if he was reprimanding a lower level employee. His whole body language toward both Crawley and Obama was one of disrespect and I found it a distasteful and boorish performance. If this is how he acts when he is under pressure, God help us if he has to face World Leaders, especially as he has already p'd off at least 5 and that is as a candidate. He is an arrogant, entitled person who would be a disaster as President of the United States.
 @noneofyourbizzness  @scoreboard But the state of the economy means nothing to you? All that's important are women's rights and same sex marriage? Kind of short-sighted if you ask me.Â
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Not discounting these issues but the economy should be more important.
'dougr' - You need to get your fact straight. I am not a fan of either one, but I am an expert at spotting a pathological liar and Obama fits the profile. In other words, Obama believes his own lies about what he said in the past and the reality of his actions to date. I know this will stress you out, but Obama has cost this country trillion's and other countries see us a week nation under this current regime.Â
 @boned So boned, I read you comment again.. So, there is a week, that is 7 days, then there is weak, that is someone who can't keep up.. Now, you say Obama cost us trillions.. Do you even know what Medicare part d is ? This is the prescription part of Medicare, Obama inherited that from Bush, but the problem is Bush never funded it, therefore to keep it going this had to come forward in the Obama budget, along with 2 wars, a down economy as well as a bank and housing crisis.. All told, this costs billions, and you really blame that on Obama, wow, educate yourself then come back and post, maybe a spelling lesson or two might help as well...
 @boned @dougrpdx @brautigan @Kachina  " but the problem is Bush never funded it" . . . Â
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Really?  Would you like to double down and go for door number 2?Â
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It was funded - - participant premiums and a Trust fund - - just lie Part B created in 1966 in The Great Society under LBJ . Â
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Medicare has two trust funds--the Medicare Hospital Insurance Part A fund and the Supplemental Medical Insurance fund. Medicare Part B Medical Insurance and Part D Prescription Drug Plan have separate accounts within the SMI fund. Read more: Funding for Medicare Part D | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_6798510_funding-medicare-part-d.html#ixzz29a3CGeAj
 @dougrpdx A spelling lesson because I truncated your name? Like I said, I am not a fan of either candidate and waited until this evening to fill out my voter pamphlet. Sir, this country is screwed no matter who gets elected since we owe our debt to China and they have some serious problems. Perhaps this link will make it clear...
Â
http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4435
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@brautigan Yeah the one that cares about everyone being on government assistance. Â
@brautigan @boned @dougrpdx They would like you to believe that, but their record shows otherwise.Â
 @brautigan  @boned  @dougrpdx Yes vote democrat. Because 46,681,833 Million food stamp users need their fix.
 @boned  @dougrpdx Oh, so, when presented with the facts, you toss your hands in the air and say we're screwed. Here's another option for you: vote for the party that actually cares about people. Vote democrat.
 @boned Boned.. Really.. I have worked for over 45 years, if a man like Robme came in and took my pension i can't tell you what I would do.. But, you seem to trust him, so be it..
@dougrpdx @boned Well, I have worked for a private company who made bad decisions, who filed bankruptcy, and at a later point, another company bought us. We lost a good deal of our pensions, but when they are part of the bankruptcy, that happens. When the company screws up and uses the pension fund as a piggy bank you cannot blame it on anyone but the failing company who put you and your pension at risk. But everyone wants to blame the buyer. By the way, the new company came in, made a tremendous investment in the operations, the people, increased wages and benefits, but they still had to close some of the units to save the rest. If your company screws up and another comes in and saves your job/livlihood, I'd think you'd be grateful. Apparently not.
Obama won this one.. But besides that.. Who would vote for a man who will not show his taxes ? Who would vote for a man with most of this money in other countries ??? Who would vote for a man who closed businesses and took working peoples pensions ???? There is no way I would vote for Robme.. He really is a thief !
Afraid not. He failed again like he has for the last 4 years.Â
@dougrpdx Apparently YOU would. Obama's pension is also invested in other countries. And you probably like paying the high gas prices too, huh? Higher power bills, higher premiums on your healthcare, higher taxes.....
 @dougrpdx Quit believing the lamestream media.....quit being a lemming/sheep.
@dougrpdx How many business's and benefits do you think Obama has stripped with his policies, his lack of inaction, and his horrible decisions? He looks like a bumbling clown without his teleprompter. He says what he wants people to hear when everyone and even their most strongest democrate knows hes lying or flat out making up what sounds good in his mind. Â
I know... it was absolutely entertaining watching Mr. Teleprompter not knowing his ass from a hole in the ground! Â
@dougrpdx Not on the economy; A CBS poll had Romney 65%, Obama 34%.
Am I the only one who took note of the fact that not once did either of them actually answer a question asked of them?
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BOTH were so focused on talking points that about the closest thing to a sincere answer was the first question asked by the college student (grad). Even then, the answers were so hopelessly mired in PR and spin double-speak that neither of them managed to get their advertisement... er, rather, response out in under 2 minutes.Â
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Here's a link to a transcript of this evenings 90 minute campaign stop;
Â
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82484.html?hp=t1_b1
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The di-hard wingers, as expected, are going to tout how their respective candidate (party) 'won' the debate. Laughable, as I don't think someone who fails to give a substanitive answer to any questions asked can be considered a 'winner' in a debate. But, here's the cliffs notes to save anyone who's yet to watch it :90 of their lives they'll never get back.
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Irrelevent of the question, the answer is as follows;
Â
Gov Romney- I'm not going to lower taxes on 'rich' people. I'm not going to raise taxes on 'middle class'. It's all President Obamas fault. Trust me, I have a (now) 5 point plan.
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President Obama- Everything is just fine, it's all starting to turn around, we're making progress, I need 4 more years to finish the job, Mr Romney is lying and you cannot trust him.Â
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I will say this, however, I finally did see a Presidential presence emerge from President Obama when Gov Romney tried to lay the death of the Lybian ambassador on him.Â
@MarkKpic exactly, Mark!
Obama took this one - he got better as it went on, and Willard just got more and more awkward. Ranting and rambling about Fast & Furious (started under George Bush) is red meat for the Republican primary crowd but not anyone else.
Yeah.. Im afraid your wrong again. Odumber was the one sweating looking dishelved, poor MR. Teleprompter... didnt have his digital back up.. BOO HOO..
Romney nailed it!! Â
 @Max Quinn Ya it was such a legit program and operation that Obama had to block us all from hearing about it with executive privilege and this is coming from the guy that ran on government transparency!!!
 @Max Quinn Of course paying attention to the facts is totally optional, http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/sep/24/barack-obama/barack-obama-said-fast-and-furious-began-under-bus/  You could always go read the OIG report on it too, but that might burst too many bubbles.
 @ChrisJ82 No bubbles burst. You're right. Fast & Furious started under Obama. Bush oversaw two similar programs under different names (one of them run out of the same office as F&F): http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/21/what-is-operation-fast-and-furious-11-questions-answers.html
 @Max Quinn I did acknowledge it failed. But yes, when you have the same agents start a new operation and they remove the one component that would in theory legitimize the operation, you know you are going to end up with something substantially worse, yet they did it anyways. The explanation for which the OIG report never got into.  Then of course there's the cover-up: The DOJ gives the media lies for talking points (ie. it didn't happen, bush did it, WR & F&F are the same, the whistleblowers did it, etc...),  the DOJ itself participates in the cover-up and lies to congress, culminating in the President stepping in. Sure makes you wonder what they are trying to hide.
 @ChrisJ82 WRT Wide Receiver and F&F, the OIG report isn't very impressed with either program:
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"We believe that the irresponsible handling of these two investigations revealed several systemic problems."
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"The risk to public safety was immediately evident in both investigations. Almost from the outset of each case, ATF agents learned that the purchases were financed by violent Mexican drug trafficking organizations and that the firearms were destined for Mexico."
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"As discussed in Chapters Three and Five, both Operation Wide Receiver and Operation Fast and Furious suffered from a lack of meaningful oversight from ATF Headquarters."
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And on it goes. If you want to make the point that F&F was worse than WR, I'll concede it.Â
 @Max Quinn I'm surprised you aren't linking to Media Matters, they were the ones directly in bed with the DOJ in getting their 'facts' straight about the story, The Daily Beast is just second hand STDs. Also curious how that news article didn't discuss the differences between the two administration's operations; where one collaborated with Mexican authorities to actually execute a sting but failed, where as the other didn't do anything really at all other than assist the gun smugglers succeed in smuggling. You know the sort of details you'd find from more reputable sources like the OIG report?