Another CRC hurdle: The Washington State Senate
»Play Video
VANCOUVER, Wash. – Earlier this month the state of Oregon signed off on replacing the Interstate 5 Bridge that spans the Columbia River from Portland to Vancouver, and it approved its share of the funding for the $3.4 billion project.
Before the project can get started, however, the state of Washington needs to approve its own funding for it. But at two town halls in Vancouver on Saturday it was clear the project, known as the Columbia River Crossing, is not yet a done deal.
The wild card of whether the project will proceed may be the state's Republican-controlled Senate.
"I think we have the (needed) 50 votes in the House," said Rep. Jim Moeller, D-Vancouver, at a morning pro-CRC town hall meeting devoted entirely to the project. "I know that we have the governor's signature, so the question, of course, remains with (the Senate)."
With legislative passage of its own CRC bill and the signature by its governor, Oregon has said it will commit $450 million to fund the project if certain conditions are met. Meanwhile, the Democrats in Washington's House proposed a $10 billion transportation package last month that includes funding the state’s own $450-million share primarily by raising the state's gas tax.
But across town later in the day at a town hall hosted by Republicans, Sen. Don Benton and Rep. Paul Harris, the project got the cold shoulder. A sticking point for them and others is that the design puts light rail on the bridge and brings it to Vancouver from Portland.
In addition to each state sharing in the cost of the project, proponents are hoping for $850 million from the federal government to fund the light rail portion of it.
Benton said he believes the project has nothing to do with benefiting Washingtonians or creating an efficient transportation system; instead, "It's about bringing light rail into Vancouver," which, he says, will burden Clark County taxpayers.
Both Harris and Benton acknowledge that a transportation bill with CRC funding will likely pass out of the House, but they are hopeful that the Senate will kill it if that happens.
"The only block (to stop the project) is the Washington state Senate," Benton declared.
For her part, state Sen. Annette Cleveland, D-Vancouver, also a participant in the pro-CRC town hall, said she'll work hard to get the bill passed in the Senate.
"I can confidently stand here before you today and say I've spoken to each and every one of our Democratic caucus members and each and every one has pledged their support for this project," she said. "So I'm looking for one additional key vote, and you can rest assure that will be my sole focus for the next eight weeks."
Extending light rail into Vancouver has ruffled a few feathers in Clark County, and last November voters in Vancouver defeated a new sales tax to help pay for it.
Proponents of the bridge are adamant, however, that the bridge can't be built without light rail because it will lose out on those federal funds.
"If you try to take light rail out of this project, the project is dead," said Kelly Parker, the president of the Greater Vancouver Chamber of Commerce during the morning town hall. "And if that is what this community thinks is important to kill this project and kill this bridge, that's the elephant in the room."
Nancy Boyd, Washington's project director for the CRC, said light rail is part of the design because "there are federal regulations that require us to examine how we can reduce the demand on the interstate system using transit as an alternative."
She added that through an extensive project study "it was determined that this facility requires a high-capacity transit alternative as a component of the project."
But Joe Cortright, an economist and president of Impresa, has raised questions about several aspects about the project, including light rail.
"Implicitly, what the advocates are saying, is somehow there's this pot of federal money - $850 million that's just waiting for this project, and that's just not true," he said during an interview. "This project would have to compete with a bunch of other projects for funding. It might not get all that amount of money, and if the federal government doesn't provide $850 million then the two states have to come up with the difference."
Proponents, however, argue that the project is at the top of the queue for federal transportation projects and if the states don't act now, they risk losing the money.
After Washington's Gov. Jay Inslee met with U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood recently, "the message he came back with after meeting with (him) is that if we don't do this right away, we'll probably never get the $850 million again," said Inslee spokesman David Postman during an interview. "There will be another state that jumps in line and embraces that money and takes it for another project somewhere else."
Postman said the governor is open to hiking the state's gas tax.
"What he has said consistently is in funding a smart transportation plan, no funding source should be off the table, and certainly a gas tax has always been a part of that and is something he says the Legislature should look at to fund this," he said.
As for Oregon, some lawmakers are still uneasy because they say an actual funding source hasn't been defined to repay the bonds over the next 30 years.
Where the state would get its money to pay for the project was a question that KATU’s Steve Dunn posed to Oregon House Speaker Tina Kotek, D-Portland, during Sunday's "Your Voice, Your Vote." (Watch the show by clicking on the "Play Video" button above.)
"We will issue $450 million in bonds and for the first couple of years of the bonding that would be there, we're going to be using existing dollars to cover the debt service, because we thought it was prudent to not go and talk about raising new revenue for this project until we know what the state of Washington is doing," she said.
She stressed the "triggers" Oregon lawmakers wrote into the legislation to prevent the state from issuing those bonds before certain conditions are met.
"So in the bill, it says, we'll issue bonds if the state of Washington does their part, if the federal government steps up and does its part, if the Coast Guard gives us a bridge permit, which we do need, (and) if the treasurer does the study that we need to say we have the dollars to do the project," she said.
All those things are still question marks and in addition to some Washingtonians having issues with light rail, proponents and opponents there are in disagreement about tolling the bridge, which is also part of how the new one will be funded.
Proponents of a new bridge cite congestion, safety issues and the real possibility of a major earthquake taking down the current bridge as reasons for building a new one.
I'd rather have them skip the damned train and build the new bridge with sufficient water clearance so as to not restrict ship traffic. I'd like to fire the idiots responsible for that screw-up.
It's not that difficult, we don't want light rail.
Hey guys -- no light rail, no bridge. You can whine all you want, but without light rail the federal government won't kick in its 1/3 of the cost. And there are plenty of people who couldn't care less if all you commuters rot in traffic.
The so-called triggers that Speaker Kotek refers to are dummies. They exist to grease the project through the political process. Once the bridge is agreed to, the triggers will cease to have power, and any failures of a trigger will simply be a notification that some other funding source will need to be found. Most likely, the funding source will be the hapless taxpayers of Oregon whose leaders are failing to speak up for them.  This project has the stench of political manipulation.
Why a train cant trimet outfit its busses with floats?
Like I've said before your new bridge will be completed 10 years from now and will be obsolete. Â
To build the bridge and not make it capable of handling future needs, like light rail, is foolish. Whether it is needed now or after gas goes to $5+ a gallon, if we are going to spend billions on a bridge, it needs to be designed for the future. Light rail doesn't have to be added immediately. Use the space for a linear park or dog run until it is needed. That or in a few years another bridge will have to be built.
Oregon Sucks. Just a little less than Washington.
Why should we have to pay a bunch of money to make it easier for suburbanites out in Clark County to drive into Portland? If they really want a new bridge, let them finance it. I'm fine with the old bridges. I never cross the river anyway; who cares.
@Whobeke Then DON'T. We don't want your fricking bridge OR loot rail. Feel free to keep it.
@Whobeke And you never buy anything that is transported across the bridge? Remember, this isn't Portland's or Vancouver's bridge, it is an essential link in the major/only west coast Interstate highway.
@Nobody @Whobeke  The current bridge certainly is essential. We should maintain it well. The problem with the current bridge, which replaces an already functioning bridge, is that it is obscenely expensive for the marginal improvement it promises. The light rail demand provides a local service, yet proponents seek to have all of Oregon pay for their local amenity. Worse yet, the light rail has only limited local support. The bridge has become an ideological statement rather than a rational proposal to serve a legitimate national and state need.
@Nobody @Whobeke No. Why would I want to buy something from a state that would rather spend money on illegals going to college then a "essential link".
Anyone who rides the light rail knows that pushing the light rail out to Vancouver is a transportation solution which is not a step forward for the commuters of Clark county. What it will do is remove the option of the C-tran buses that provide an excellent commuter service for the commuters.  The commuters will not be given a choice, they will be forced to use the lightrail as the C-tran service will be removed. In a similar manner that the tri-met bus services were removed when the Hillsboro lightrail service was put into operation. This is some bright sparks idea that never has to ride the light rail. Anyone who commutes knows the buses provide a better solution when compared to the lightrail solution that Portland metro has chosen. The commute time from Downtown Vancouver to Pioneer Square on C-tran is 20 minutes. Lightrail from the expo center to Pioneer square is 45 minutes. Adding to this line to connect to Downtown Vancouver is going to create an approximate commute time of 1 hour+ from Downtown Vancouver to Pioneer square on the light rail.  Common sense dictates no fool is going to commute on the light rail from Vancouver. What this will really do is add more traffic to the already busy freeway.  Anyone who rides/drives this commute on a regular basis will tell you that adding more lanes to the southbound lanes is going to make no real difference to traffic flow, the bottle neck for the south bound traffic is the rose garden ODOT cluster F@$#.  North bound traffic would benefit from more lanes on the bridge as the bridge is the bottleneck in the northbound direction. Continuing the HOV lanes over the bridge would be a helpful solution, ending the HOV lanes at Hayden island as it stands at the moment is crazy, creating a lane changing mela which helps to cause the backup of track for the northbound lanes.   A solution which included a reversible expressway, where three lanes would be used for southbound traffic from midnight to midday and then reversed so northbound traffic could usei from midday to midnight would make more sense instead of building 6 lanes.  Preferable sticking it in a tunnel. We'll use the tunneling equipment when Seattle has finished with it. Anyone saying we can't tunnel under the columbia river needs to go do some googling. Bury the damn freeway. Enhance the Bus Rapid Transit routes. Quit wasting your time, Washington is never going to vote for this solution. Where have all the geniuses gone that stood up and looked to the future and built the Glenn L. Jackson Memorial Bridge (i-205 bridge).
@Dave Â
 So agitate for a direct spike from Vancouver to Downtown Portland. Or start a private bus line that drives directly....anything just stop whining.
yes by all means, lets tear down a working bridge and replace it with the same amount of lanes at a cost of billions and then to top it off lets put a toll on it in the middle of the worst recession since 1929!  insanity!
Oregon should charge an out of state tax for commuters who drive to Oregon to work. They use Oregon roads but fail to pay for their share....either that or simply put the train on the bridge.
So why would anyone want to live in Vantucky and commute to Portland to work? Sounds like a pretty long commute with no upside particularly if the only tax avoidance is buying consumer goods without sales tax. Why would anyone do that?  And, thanks guys; it makes me feel lots better that all those boarder crossing aliens are at least paying Oregon income taxes.
@Icarus Property taxes?
@danoseknows  There has to be some benefit...right? shooting critters off the front porch, an abundance of squirrel meat, marrying your sister, free moonshine....something.Â
@Icarus Yeah, I am with you. I see no benefit in the commute.Â
@Icarus Duh...Washington residents already pay Oregon taxes for the privilege of working in your fine state.
@icarus  are you that stupid????? people who work in oregon and live in washington already  PAY OREGON STATE TAX!  WAKE UP!
@Icarus  They already do, moron. It's called an income tax. We also pay your gas tax when filling up the tank. Not to mention those "out of staters" who own real estate in Oregon - we also pay real estate taxes to which we derive no benefit.   It's the ultimate "taxation without representation" helping to fuel your economy
@wondering That may be true but they don't pay enough for all the pollution they bring; social and environmental.Â
@Icarus you mean like paying OR income tax and not being able to vote on anything?  something like that?  if you work in OR, you pay OR income tax. Â
@unclebuck I suppose then if you want a bridge to Oregon to facilitate your commute then you'll just have to lobby your Washington Congressmen to fund the bridge with the train...since you can't vote in Oregon.  Â
@Icarus @unclebuck Except the people over here don't want one. There's nothing wrong with the current one that this project will fix.
Most of the money will come from taxes in Seattle Metro and they have as little interest or incentive in building a bridge for Vancouver WA as Portland.   The whole public train requirement is a nod to the Citizens of Portland who know the effectiveness of public transportation for relieving traffic from the Oregon infrastructure. Â
If Vancouver were self supporting rather than being dependent upon Portland then there might be an argument but Washington has very little room to complain about this requirement because Vancouver doesn't benefit Oregon at all but rather simply suck resources from the Oregon economy.Â
@Icarus Vancouver doesn't benefit Oregon at all but rather simply suck resources from the Oregon economy
If you had even half a brain, you would know that this couldn't be further from the truth.
@wondering O.k. so you went out of your way to insult me and contradict my statement but you didn't provide any example of a single benefit that Vantucky provides to Oregon or Portland. Â
And, I won't accept that Washington is a great buffer state protecting Oregon from the hostilities of Canadians. Â
@wondering @Icarus Washington only benefits illegals.
What a stupid objection...."it's a conspiracy to bring light rail into Clark County".   Seattle is buying the largest drilling machine ever to retroactively install public transportation and has cobbled the "Sounder" together as a hacker solution to provide public transportation and tie Seattle together with Tacoma and Federal way.  Now this icehole wants to block a forward thinking solution to public transportation? Â
#what_requirement_necessitates_conservatives_to_be_idiots?
@Icarus Step away from the bong, moron. Every foot of that scam in King County was voted on by the people up there.
What, exactly, have we been allowed to vote on when it comes to this scam?
Nothing.
THE PEOPLE, allegedly the most important part of this equation, DO NOT WANT THIS.
Just ask fake Republican Marc Boldt, kicked out of office overwhelmingly by people opposed to your view over here last November.
#what_makes_druggies_think_they_have_a_clue
1. On January 12, 2009, the state of Washington, King County, the city of Seattle, and the Port of Seattle revealed that they had agreed to replace the viaduct with a four-lane, 2-mile (3.2Â km) long underground tunnel.[4] The tunnel would have a south portal in SoDo, near CenturyLink Field, and a north portal near Thomas Street, north of the Battery Street Tunnel.
2. The project is estimated to cost US$4.25 billion, with the state, city, and county promising funding well short of the estimate. (They estimated 3.1 billion for the project)
3. There's been studies done to show that "Settling" is still occurring from the Nisqually quake and that damage will occur to the tunnel.
what_requirement_necessitates_liberals_to_be_idiots AND liars?
@disgustedman Â
 Really, so Seattle is spending all that money without any expectation that it will improve traffic congestion by increasing public transportation....boy, that is really stupid and short sighted. Oregon passed laws in 1970 so that one percent of all highway funds were reserved for bike lanes and now there are fewer cars on the road. In the 80's Portland started the MAX project and it has been exceeded every projection for ridership and Portland is THE model for urban transportation....and there are fewer cars on the road. Â
#How_stupid_does_one_have_to_be_to_spend_so_much_and_get_so_little? Â Â #Seattle_StupidÂ
Lets hope that Washington squashes this project. Â Both Oregon and Washington have been in debt for the last few years (over $2 billion each) and we can't even fund education properly. Â We are also wasting our money on other thing such as the $500 million streetcar to nowhere, and the max line to Clackamas that the county doesn't want to pay for. Â We can't even pave our streets and freeways!
I am sick of this crap getting shoved down our throats and people need to make logical and sound decisions. Â Is the bridge tall enough? Â Will this actually reduce congestion? Â Do we have plenty of money to waste? Â Does Clark county want light rail? Â Does our current bridge meet our transportation needs for next 10-20 years? Â The answer is no to all of these questions except that last one.
@portlandborn83 The Senate is locked up in opposition, Cleveland's babble notwithstanding. It's dead in Transportation, and will never see the floor.
The end.
These so called 'hurdles' are the invention and the fault of the entire 'Light rail or Die' crowd. If not for their insistence that their pet train project, that the majority of the population does not want, MUST be included in the new bridge project, the new bridge would already have been started.Â
@last boyscout Well that includes Blu, the City of Portland, Pamplin, Goldschmidt, Kitz and the Senator from New York, Mr. Wyden as the Pro Crowd. Doddering idiots.
@last boyscout if it means lives being saved hell I will avree to the dang train. Train no trian , what a stupid argument. w
when people wimd up dying to structural failure it won't be a train or no train fault it will be the fault of fools arguing pettiness. .@lee986321 @last boyscout One can conjecture that more lives will be lost building the new political extravaganza than will be saved as a result of the finished project. But, you may have data on the annual lives lost due to the present system. If so, please present them for review.
@lee986321Â
Lee, the I-5 bridge is rated safer than the Marquam Bridge, which is over 50 years newer! Not much of an argument there.
@lee986321Â
Lee's been drinking again....it's a high suspension bridge, lee. Similar to the Golden Gate and St. John's Bridges.
I think there is a report out there and it doesn't look pretty either for the Longview. [bridge of sighs or bridge over troubled waters?]
@lee986321
Is what?Â
@Bio Sphere @lee986321 Lol. true...I wonder what the Columbia river bridge that connects Rainier and Longview is?
lets see what they h ave to say when said ridge collapses killing over a 100 . then will they agree to do something?
@lee986321 That will happen directly after you regain a functioning brain cell.
Thanks for asking.
The only other problem I see is Washington State ordering a review of the CRC by Ch2MHill, who did the original assessment of construction consulting and now they want a yes or no vote, determined by that individual. Accountability is worse than the Oregonian's un-biased reporting staff.Â