Bill would require college credit in Ore. high schools
SALEM, Ore. (AP) — The Oregon Legislature is looking at making college students out of every Oregon high-school student.
A bipartisan group of legislators has introduced a bill that would require college coursework as a condition of graduating from high school. The move would increase the number of students going to college, make their degrees more affordable and encourage students not considering college to continue in higher education, said Sen. Mark Hass, a Beaverton Democrat who is the bill's chief sponsor.
"It represents a great play on college affordability if someone can come out of Roseburg High School with 40 credits," Hass said Tuesday at a committee hearing for the measure. "That student saves thousands of dollars for himself and his family on the cost of a bachelor's degree. Not only that, it helps those students have a much more productive career while they're in high school."
Critics say students shouldn't be forced to take college courses if they're not interested. Every student should have access to college-level courses if they want them, said Margaret DeLacy, a board member at the Oregon Association for Talented and Gifted, but not all students will want to.
"We believe that students are individuals and each student's needs should be addressed as flexibly as possible," DeLacy told lawmakers.
The effort illustrates an enduring tension in education as the Legislature tries to improve the quality of schools while facing severe funding shortfalls.
The current draft of Senate Bill 222 would require college credit for six of the 24 high-school classes required to earn a diploma, starting with the class of 2020. It also would provide a yet-to-be-determined amount of money to help teachers get the necessary training to teach advanced-level classes.
The bill is likely to change substantially before going before the full Senate, Hass said, and the mandate for college credits could eventually be watered down or removed. But he said he's committed to creating powerful incentives for high schools to boost the number of students earning college credits.
Last school year, more than 25,000 Oregon high-school students took dual-enrollment classes, which are taught by high-school teachers and result in simultaneous credit toward high-school and college graduation requirements. Others earned college credit through Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate programs.
Offering college-level courses can be especially tough in small and rural school districts, where teachers often cover several subjects, said Sen. Arnie Roblan, a Coos Bay Democrat and former high-school principal. Dual-credit courses can only be taught by teachers with a master's degree in the subject they're teaching.
This is a great idea but should not be a requirement. We all know people that are packing tremendous school loan debt.Â
An idea that would never make off of a cocktail napkin; Lower college tuition by 40%, justification would be simple, look at the reserve funds/trusts of most universities and colleges. They're in the Billions.Â
Hmmm. They already let kids graduate when they only read and write at an 8th grade level. Now they want to force them into taking college level courses? What a stupid idea. Perhaps they should implement a program like Clark County's Running Start Program. That would allow the kids who have the potential to thrive and save a few bucks on college courses.
Terrible idea.  Not all kids are going to College.  Another requirement that the state can't pay for and a another reason that will cause HS students to drop out.  How about giving students classes in vocational jobs like Auto Mechanics, Nurses aide, Machine shop training that would lead strait to work after graduation.  This idea sounds like College grads thinking there path is the only path.  I am a college grad as is my wife and son and we all know that path isn't for everyone.  Too often law makers try to force people to behave as they say not as they want.
Several of my nieces and nephews live in Clark County, and participated in the Running Start program, which resulted in their getting both their HS diplomas and their AA degrees at the same time. My nephew graduated from Washington State two years later (at 19) and then entered the Air Force as an officer. My niece will do the same thing this year and is planning to join the Coast Guard.
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I wish there was an equivalent program here in Oregon for my Daughter.
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Having said that, not everyone is a good fit for college. Those who can't (or won't) succeed at this will be subject to what downside from the effort?
The idea sounds like a good one for the majority of kids, but I agree with the following:Â
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"Critics say students shouldn't be forced to take college courses if they're not interested. Every student should have access to college-level courses if they want them, said Margaret DeLacy, a board member at the Oregon Association for Talented and Gifted, but not all students will want to."
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You can't FORCE this on people. That's taking away their own free will. Ms. DeLacy has it right. Not all kids will want to do this.Â
Another thought...Some just may not be able to handle that type of instruction, either. If they are just barely getting by with the lowest possible grade average, I foresee a greater increase in dropouts.Â
If I was trying to decide what college to go to in 2013, I'd probably get an iPad and save the tuition money for a house.
This is a great idea, my sister finished high school with 20 college credits and didn't have to pay for a single one. Yes, some kids aren't "cut out" for college, but at least give them the option to at least get some credits!! Maybe it'll motivate them to go further, if not at least they'd have some and at no expense :-)
I should have clarified, I believe it should be a choice to take these classes, ntot be required...
I wish the politicians would realize........ SOME KIDS ARE JUST NOT MEANT FOR COLLEGEÂ and stop trying to jam it down their throats.
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Hey Salem....... how about first concentrating on high school graduates who can read & write at a 12th grade level first before worrying about shipping them off to college.
IMHO its a REALLY REALLY  stupid idea. At my kids high school they do have college level classes and they are for the most part significantly more difficult than the standard classes.Â
So if the classes are NOT dumbed down the grad rates will tank and if they do dumb down the classes the smart kids and/or hard working kids will get screwed and will make their college experience that much more difficult.
Given  the pressure the principals are under to keep grad rates as high as possible, I'd bet my lunch money the school districts squash  this before it ever sees the light of day.
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 Most high schools ALREADY  have college prep classes that some will get college credit for. I believe in some instances a high school student could potentially have a years worth of college credit when graduating high school. But the sad fact is many students don't give a rats ass about college and trying to force them to work hard for a class they couldn't care less about will turn out to be a misrable failure.Â
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It's a great I-D-E-A, but schools are already running to keep up with what they've got on their plates as it is. Why not sponsor a bill that offers that for students that are reaching out for that option and are planning on attending college that might have financial issues and this would be helpful in getting them a foot up in the process instead. Seems to me that making it a blanket 'one-size-fits-all' sort of thing just isn't fair. There are some kids that aren't going to be able to pass a college level course in high school for a variety of reasons and to make that a condition of graduation is unfair. Some kids aren't mature enough in high school yet to complete college level courses. Some aren't interested. Some simply don't care. Others will be excited about it and excel at the idea. But, it shouldn't be mandatory for all. It isn't a sound idea.
Agree with offering them, disagree with requiring them for a diploma. All it will end up doing is further eroding the states graduation rates.Â
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I suppose the lynchpin question would be specifically what 'college level' classes are required. 'college level' Algebra isn't all that different from HS Algebra, cirriculum is a bit more accelerated, but other than that the function of the math is the same.Â
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If we're talking about requiring as a condition of earning a diploma 'college level' math, I read that as Calculus or better. If that is indeed what we're talking about here, the Legislature and state board of education are just kidding themselves if they think it's going to 'raise the level' of kids education. All it's going to raise is the rates of non-diploma earning students.Â
@MarkKpic You know, you're right, I made a comment earlier and should've have specified...it's a great option, but shouldn't be required...too many kids don't have the ability of confidence to take "college level" classes and it may affect them in a negative way....
No one can afford college. They are too busy trying to afford health care. Lets worry about creating jobs and get real here.
@irsmart If you get a good job out of college, it is affordable...
@SocietyToday what about the 80% that don't? Sorry but putting yourself 100k in debt right out of the gate is just dumb.
The majority of my friends have 4 year degrees, I don't and I'm making equal or normally more than all of them.
How about you get kids graduating and knowing what they are supposed to know before adding in some stupid crap like this?
They are only making it harder on students to even graduate! This is total male cow bowel matter! Who ever thought this one up needs to get a life and get smacked upside the head with reality..
Oegon has the fourth worst graduation rate in the country (only 68%) and legislators want to force college credit as a condition of graduation? I fully support education as a life-long process and encourage higher education. But, isn't this putting the cart before the horse? Let's get the kids successfully through high school and then we can talk about how we encourage college.
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According to Besty Hammond and The Oregonian, November 27, 2012: "Oregon has the fourth-worst high school graduation rate in the nation, according to the federal government's most accurate state-by-state report on the topic. Just 68 percent of Oregon high school students in the class of 2011 earned a diploma in four years, according to data released Monday. Forty-two other states did better, and three were unable to report properly so their rates weren't tallied. The report revealed that Oregon high schools generate far-above-average dropout rates for students of every racial and ethnic group, including the nation's third-worst graduation rate for African Americans."
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They may call it a bi-partisan committee, but my money is on the Liberals behind this idiocy.  From the party that says you can't legislate morality comes, "let's legislate a college education."
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Heck, why stop there; why not mandate that everyone has to become a doctor. Then we can be impressed by our intelligence as we stand around in the unemployment line.
My girlfriend has a 4 year degree from one of the Oregon universities. I do not, I make more money at a job that is way more fun. Sorry but college education is overrated......
@Jeepers But there are some jobs you can only get with a college degree, going to college to get a degree in something you don't necessarily need a degree in to get a higher pay is dumb. Most likely you won't end up earning that much more to make it worth it....
@SocietyToday her degree is in business and accounting. My degree is in automotive, but I'm out of that field now.
Why not work on getting students up to the current standards and increasing the graduation rate, instead?Â
That would further reduce the quality of the credits earned during the high school years. Colleges DON'T have to accept transfer credits - and this would be some they'd be unlikely to in the long run.
@starshadow Most schools that do this credit are "contracted" with a college to accept the credits. My sister has 20 credits or so that tranferred to her college and they did not cost her anything. Her school offers 2 free years if you graduate with a 3.5 or higher by your first semester of Senior year...I think that's great!
 @SocietyToday  @starshadow The COMMUNITY COLLEGE they work with accepts the credits. That does NOT mean that a university has to, or will. Often, they do not even accept transfer credits that were taken at the community college itself.
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If there is any intention whatsoever of going to a university immediately after high school, best to ensure that the university you intend to transfer to will accept the credits before hand - or make certain that you're graduating high school with the AA degree already completed. (Which is possible, but takes a significant amount of extra coursework.)
Shouldn't the students be making these kind of decisions for themselves?
@jasmin10 I agree, it should be a choice, not a requirement
@jasmin10 But . . . but . . . but, jasmin10, our government does truly know what's best for us. *turns off sarcasm*
Not everyone wants to or is at a level to take college course. There are students with lower IQ's or those that have difficulty learning that will be great citizens, bussiness owners, paid workers, etc. but they have no desire to go to college. Â We thought the drop out rates were bad before, they'll increase now. As a high school teacher I know great kids who will barely make it through algebra, much less college level courses. What ever happen to freedom of choice?
 @Adventure Girl Exactly. There are kids that have to reach a certain maturity level before they are ready for college level anything too. High school is not the time for these level courses. For some - yes. For most - NO. Not to mention the additional pressure on the teachers to learn the new curriculum on top of everything they already have to teach.
Another bone head idea from our dear leaders. If implemented, this will lower the number of students who graduate high school. The HS graduation rate is nothing to brag about in Portland to begin with.
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I have nothing against more education, but this will increase the number of failures and not do one thing to increase the number of collage graduates.
Yet another way to "socialize" our society and make everyone equal--not just equal opportunity, but trying to make every child equal. Â I agree with the constitution that we have equal opportunity to pursue happiness & success, but that is an individual choice, not a government mandate. Â My children chose to take AP classes--one decided to take the AP test for college credit, one child chose not to take the test but still benefited from taking the class. Â These are for individuals to choose, not government to dictate!
"A bipartisan group of legislators has introduced a bill that would require college coursework as a condition of graduating from high school." Â Â (from the story)
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Well, that's nice... Â I hope they've also figured out how all these people are going to PAY for their college educations, since there doesn't seem to be any inexpensive way to do that any more...Â
I also think it's inherently WRONG to make that a requirement in order to graduate from HS... Â Not every student wants to pursue a higher academic education... and not all of them are suited for it... that is NOT saying they're stupid... but some students want to work in the trades, and we need them, too..! Â Â
Certainly a plan like this should be available and encouraged for those students who want to go on to college... but our gov't needs to STOP dictating our lives..! Â Â
They need to work on things that will improve the K-12 education the kids are getting (well, SUPPOSED to be getting, anyway)... and then make the CHOICES available to them...Â
Whatever happened to the idea that college was something to aspire to, not just something to be forced on students who have no interest in going towards a goal of higher education? There are plenty of students out there who only go on with HS because they have to. To those, continuing in school is already a torment bereft of any financial gain to their future, as they see it. I agree that K-12 education should be more of an educational process, and not one of rote learning to pass required tests. Those prove nothing except that students can pass tests when the only thing they learn is how to pass those tests! Everyone is not equal, either in ability or desire! Concentrate on how to learn and why, and you will enable the students to live a life contributing to society, instead of just outlasting the school years, and then never again learning anything useful!
So, then we will have high school graduates with college credits who can't read, write or do simple arithmetic. Â They will still be in line behind foreign students who are ten times smarter and will be getting the good jobs. Â Isn't it about time that our schools and politicians admit that our schools are failures and do something about it instead of passing the buck? Â A good start would be to get rid of the teacher's unions along with any of their members who are not qualified to be teachers. Â I realize there will be a huge shortage of qualified teachers for a couple of years, but it will be worth it.