First debate sets up moment of high-risk theater
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DENVER (AP) - President Barack Obama and Republican Mitt Romney come face to face for the first time in this presidential campaign Wednesday night for a nationally televised debate that will give millions of Americans a chance to size up two fierce competitors in a moment of high-risk theater.
Romney, trailing in polls in a number of key states and running short on time to reverse his fortunes, is angling for a breakout performance in the three 90-minute presidential debates scheduled over the next three weeks.
Obama, well aware that the remaining five weeks of the race still offer enough time for tectonic shifts in his prospects, is determined to avoid any campaign-altering mistakes as he presses his case for a second term.
A pre-debate skirmish Tuesday over Vice President Joe Biden's passing reference to "a middle class that has been buried the last four years" demonstrated how just a few words can mushroom into something larger during a heated contest for the White House.
Wednesday's 9 p.m. EDT faceoff between Obama and Romney on domestic policy at the University of Denver is sure to offer a blend of choreography and spontaneity: Obama was selected to get the first question in a coin toss. Both men have spent hours rehearsing smart lines and pithy comebacks with proxy opponents - yet know to expect the unexpected.
"That's what so tricky about this," says Alan Schroeder, author of a book on presidential debates. "There's never a template for preparing because each one takes its own direction."
The central role of the economy in this election is evident in the topics selected for the first three of the night's six debate segments: The Economy I, The Economy II and The Economy III. The last three segments will focus on health care, the role of government and governing.
The candidates planned to visit the debate site Wednesday afternoon, Romney about an hour before Obama, then both planned down time at their hotels before the main event. Romney's aides said he reviewed briefing books and policy earlier Wednesday at his Denver hotel.
Romney has pinned his campaign on the argument that Obama has failed to adequately juice up the U.S. economy, but his challenge is reflected in recent polls showing growing public optimism about the economy and the president's leadership. His case got tougher after a secret video revealed Romney telling donors that it's not his job to care about the 47 percent of Americans who don't pay federal income taxes and believe they are victims.
Romney tried to address accusations that he doesn't care about those voters with a new ad Wednesday in which the casually dressed candidate looks at the camera and acknowledges the struggles of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. "We should measure our compassion by how many of our fellow Americans are able to get good-paying jobs, not how many are on welfare. My economic plan will get America back to work and strengthen the middle class," he says.
Former President Bill Clinton told a rally at the University of New Hampshire in Durham on Wednesday that many of those who don't pay federal income taxes are working families that both parties have agreed should not have to raise their children in poverty. He said the criticism of Americans who don't pay federal income taxes is ironic coming from a man who holds accounts in the Cayman Islands.
"You've got to give him credit," Clinton said. "When you bust somebody for doing what you did, it takes a lot of gall, you know?"
Republicans tried to frame the economic debate in their terms by pointing to the vice president's comments in North Carolina about the beleaguered middle class as an unwitting acknowledgment that Obama's economic policies have devastated average Americans.
"Over the last four years the American middle class has been buried," Florida Sen. Marco Rubio said to laughter and cheers before several hundred supporters in Denver. "Those aren't my words. Those happen to be the words of the distinguished vice president of the united states, Joe Biden."
Obama's camp countered that it was the policies of the president's Republican predecessors that had caused the damage.
Biden, at a later campaign event Tuesday, was careful to say that "the middle class was buried by the policies that Romney and Ryan supported," calling their economic plans an amped-up rework of those from the George W. Bush years.
Romney calls Wednesday's debate the beginning of a monthlong "conversation with the American people," and the debates do tend to consume much of the political oxygen for several crucial weeks.
The candidates will be speaking to a TV audience of tens of millions in one of those rare moments when a critical mass of Americans collectively fix their attention on one event. Fifty-two million people tuned in to the first debate four years ago, and 80 percent of the nation's adults reported watching at least a bit of the debates between Obama and Republican John McCain in 2008.
The two campaigns on Wednesday announced new websites - http://debates.mittromney.com and http://barackobama.com/debate - to respond to their opponent in real time.
In a quadrennial pre-debate ritual, each campaign has worked overtime to raise expectations for the opponent while lowering the bar for its own candidate. The thinking is that it's better to exceed lukewarm expectations than to fail to perform at an anticipated level of great skill.
But both men are seasoned debaters: Obama has been here before, facing off with McCain in 2008. Romney hasn't gone one on one in a presidential debate, but he got plenty of practice thinking on his feet during 19 multicandidate debates held during the Republican primaries.
On a long day of debate prep - Romney in Denver and Obama in Henderson, Nev., near Las Vegas - both candidates tried to blow off some steam Tuesday. The president made a tourist's visit to nearby Hoover Dam, and Romney fit in a lunchtime outing to a Mexican grill for a burrito bowl.
The two candidates' biggest fans talked up their debating abilities in pre-debate interviews.
Michelle Obama told CNN she's like a nervous parent watching a child performing on the balance beam when her husband debates.
"I do tell him to have fun and relax and just be himself, because the truth is, if he's the Barack Obama the country has come to know and trust, he is going to do a great job," she said.
Ann Romney said her husband always looks around to find her in the debate audience and keeps a paper in front of him that says "Dad" - to remind him to make his father proud.
As for her advice, Mrs. Romney told KMGH-TV in Denver that she tells her husband: "Sweetie, you had five boys. You learned to argue really well and make your points years ago. Just go do that."
Wednesday's format: The moderator, PBS newsman Jim Lehrer, will open each 15-minute segment with a question, and Obama and Romney each will have two minutes to answer. After that, it's up to Lehrer to keep the conversation going and to intervene if one candidate goes on too long.
Obama and Romney have a two-track mission with debate viewers: Motivate core supporters to turn out and vote - at a time when early voting already is under way in many states - and try to lock in some new supporters from among the small subset of viewers who haven't settled on a candidate or whose support for one man or the other is squishy.
The viewers who matter most live in the contested battleground states that will determine which candidate gets to 270 electoral votes on Nov. 6: Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Virginia and, to a lesser extent, Wisconsin.
Recent national polls show the two candidates in a tight race among likely voters. But Obama has the advantage in many of the battlegrounds, including Colorado.
Romney and Obama debate again Oct. 16 in Hempstead, N.Y., and Oct. 22 in Boca Raton, Fla. Biden and Ryan have their lone debate on Oct. 11 in Danville, Ky.
Obama plans to use the first presidential debate as the hook for fundraisers and recruiting volunteers. Bill Clinton will be in Boston on Wednesday night for Obama, with donors paying $20,000 a person. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is headlining a New York fundraiser.
The Obama campaign plans more than 4,000 debate-watching events around the country. And Biden is scheduled to hold a live discussion with supporters that will be streamed online after the debate.
The Romney camp planned 336 debate parties at restaurants, bars, grills, VFW halls and other sites concentrated in battleground states.
Romney, trailing in polls in a number of key states and running short on time to reverse his fortunes, is angling for a breakout performance in the three 90-minute presidential debates scheduled over the next three weeks.
Obama, well aware that the remaining five weeks of the race still offer enough time for tectonic shifts in his prospects, is determined to avoid any campaign-altering mistakes as he presses his case for a second term.
A pre-debate skirmish Tuesday over Vice President Joe Biden's passing reference to "a middle class that has been buried the last four years" demonstrated how just a few words can mushroom into something larger during a heated contest for the White House.
Wednesday's 9 p.m. EDT faceoff between Obama and Romney on domestic policy at the University of Denver is sure to offer a blend of choreography and spontaneity: Obama was selected to get the first question in a coin toss. Both men have spent hours rehearsing smart lines and pithy comebacks with proxy opponents - yet know to expect the unexpected.
"That's what so tricky about this," says Alan Schroeder, author of a book on presidential debates. "There's never a template for preparing because each one takes its own direction."
The central role of the economy in this election is evident in the topics selected for the first three of the night's six debate segments: The Economy I, The Economy II and The Economy III. The last three segments will focus on health care, the role of government and governing.
The candidates planned to visit the debate site Wednesday afternoon, Romney about an hour before Obama, then both planned down time at their hotels before the main event. Romney's aides said he reviewed briefing books and policy earlier Wednesday at his Denver hotel.
Romney has pinned his campaign on the argument that Obama has failed to adequately juice up the U.S. economy, but his challenge is reflected in recent polls showing growing public optimism about the economy and the president's leadership. His case got tougher after a secret video revealed Romney telling donors that it's not his job to care about the 47 percent of Americans who don't pay federal income taxes and believe they are victims.
Romney tried to address accusations that he doesn't care about those voters with a new ad Wednesday in which the casually dressed candidate looks at the camera and acknowledges the struggles of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. "We should measure our compassion by how many of our fellow Americans are able to get good-paying jobs, not how many are on welfare. My economic plan will get America back to work and strengthen the middle class," he says.
Former President Bill Clinton told a rally at the University of New Hampshire in Durham on Wednesday that many of those who don't pay federal income taxes are working families that both parties have agreed should not have to raise their children in poverty. He said the criticism of Americans who don't pay federal income taxes is ironic coming from a man who holds accounts in the Cayman Islands.
"You've got to give him credit," Clinton said. "When you bust somebody for doing what you did, it takes a lot of gall, you know?"
Republicans tried to frame the economic debate in their terms by pointing to the vice president's comments in North Carolina about the beleaguered middle class as an unwitting acknowledgment that Obama's economic policies have devastated average Americans.
"Over the last four years the American middle class has been buried," Florida Sen. Marco Rubio said to laughter and cheers before several hundred supporters in Denver. "Those aren't my words. Those happen to be the words of the distinguished vice president of the united states, Joe Biden."
Obama's camp countered that it was the policies of the president's Republican predecessors that had caused the damage.
Biden, at a later campaign event Tuesday, was careful to say that "the middle class was buried by the policies that Romney and Ryan supported," calling their economic plans an amped-up rework of those from the George W. Bush years.
Romney calls Wednesday's debate the beginning of a monthlong "conversation with the American people," and the debates do tend to consume much of the political oxygen for several crucial weeks.
The candidates will be speaking to a TV audience of tens of millions in one of those rare moments when a critical mass of Americans collectively fix their attention on one event. Fifty-two million people tuned in to the first debate four years ago, and 80 percent of the nation's adults reported watching at least a bit of the debates between Obama and Republican John McCain in 2008.
The two campaigns on Wednesday announced new websites - http://debates.mittromney.com and http://barackobama.com/debate - to respond to their opponent in real time.
In a quadrennial pre-debate ritual, each campaign has worked overtime to raise expectations for the opponent while lowering the bar for its own candidate. The thinking is that it's better to exceed lukewarm expectations than to fail to perform at an anticipated level of great skill.
But both men are seasoned debaters: Obama has been here before, facing off with McCain in 2008. Romney hasn't gone one on one in a presidential debate, but he got plenty of practice thinking on his feet during 19 multicandidate debates held during the Republican primaries.
On a long day of debate prep - Romney in Denver and Obama in Henderson, Nev., near Las Vegas - both candidates tried to blow off some steam Tuesday. The president made a tourist's visit to nearby Hoover Dam, and Romney fit in a lunchtime outing to a Mexican grill for a burrito bowl.
The two candidates' biggest fans talked up their debating abilities in pre-debate interviews.
Michelle Obama told CNN she's like a nervous parent watching a child performing on the balance beam when her husband debates.
"I do tell him to have fun and relax and just be himself, because the truth is, if he's the Barack Obama the country has come to know and trust, he is going to do a great job," she said.
Ann Romney said her husband always looks around to find her in the debate audience and keeps a paper in front of him that says "Dad" - to remind him to make his father proud.
As for her advice, Mrs. Romney told KMGH-TV in Denver that she tells her husband: "Sweetie, you had five boys. You learned to argue really well and make your points years ago. Just go do that."
Wednesday's format: The moderator, PBS newsman Jim Lehrer, will open each 15-minute segment with a question, and Obama and Romney each will have two minutes to answer. After that, it's up to Lehrer to keep the conversation going and to intervene if one candidate goes on too long.
Obama and Romney have a two-track mission with debate viewers: Motivate core supporters to turn out and vote - at a time when early voting already is under way in many states - and try to lock in some new supporters from among the small subset of viewers who haven't settled on a candidate or whose support for one man or the other is squishy.
The viewers who matter most live in the contested battleground states that will determine which candidate gets to 270 electoral votes on Nov. 6: Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Virginia and, to a lesser extent, Wisconsin.
Recent national polls show the two candidates in a tight race among likely voters. But Obama has the advantage in many of the battlegrounds, including Colorado.
Romney and Obama debate again Oct. 16 in Hempstead, N.Y., and Oct. 22 in Boca Raton, Fla. Biden and Ryan have their lone debate on Oct. 11 in Danville, Ky.
Obama plans to use the first presidential debate as the hook for fundraisers and recruiting volunteers. Bill Clinton will be in Boston on Wednesday night for Obama, with donors paying $20,000 a person. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is headlining a New York fundraiser.
The Obama campaign plans more than 4,000 debate-watching events around the country. And Biden is scheduled to hold a live discussion with supporters that will be streamed online after the debate.
The Romney camp planned 336 debate parties at restaurants, bars, grills, VFW halls and other sites concentrated in battleground states.
shoot, robme actually did good. If he keeps this up the mormon "chosen" from mexico will be seen here like nothing before.
robme, "we didn't cut medicare! but of coarse we didn't have medicare. but we didn't cut medicare" REALLY! Â LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL
Ready for this? robme just said, concerning medicare, that the rich would pay more under his plan so that the poor can get the benefits of medicare. Are you shieeting me? LOL
did you pubes hear that?????? jesus this guy
 @swimmer Wow you have to be just barely 18 when your main argument uses the word pubes in it. Maybe you should go back to college, grow up, get a job, and come back when you can hold a mature conversation with other adults. Your a prime example of why you should have to pass a test to vote...
Now he's getting ride of abama care. didn't he say that he was just going to retool it? I think he forgets what he says the day before.
robme, my priority is jobs. I care about the amercian people and jobs. Really robme? so why did you shut down companies and sent them overseas. did you not see that middle amreicans would lose their jobs?
robme just said that the middle class are buried! that what biden said two days ago anf weasel news was cutting hi down for using those words. Now the coward says it. I wonder how the pubes are going to treat that one
 @swimmerPull your hand out of your pants and maybe you can get out a sentence that does not contain the word pubes!!!
You just wait and see, Obama will not be asked anything of substance..Romney will - then Obama will rebut and won't be able to help himself - he will lie like he has since day one.......the media has earned the scorn with which we look at them, with askance I might add....
Obama administration to contractors: âHold off announcing layoffs until after the election and taxpayers will cover your fines and costsââ¦sounds like the sneaky, whispered comments to Russia â Iâll be more flexible after the electionâ¦.ever wonder how many other enemies heâs sold us out to? Ever wonder about the lies concerning the terrorist attack on our Embassy in Libya and our Ambassador being drug thru the streets, raped and tortured? Two Seals and an Aide slaughtered? The increase in college tuition from average $6585 increased to $8, 244â¦a 25% increase.
All the mortgages down the drain, raised taxes he hasn't owned up to? The list goes on and on and yet you wild-eyed-liberals still worship Obama and refuse to educate yourselves on his march to destroy our country â and you  â¦â¦ When the well runs dry, and it will, I will have no pity for you but will gladly tell you âI told you soââ¦
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why don't you ever provide any facts???????????????????????????????????/
@KHEB
Our dead Ambassador was raped?
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College tuition went up because of a cut in federal subsidies..."oh but we have to cut", "our debt is out of control!", and how is Obama responsible for "all those mortgages down the drain"?
 @deejm2112 ...yep, he was raped...even got a picture of it.
 @swimmer As the king of pubes I would think you would understand what sodomized means? Try going back to college but smoke less dope this time:)
ya insecure, he sure denies the muslin terrorists. get a grip insecure
The list of senior terrorists killed during the Obama presidency is fairly extensive.
Thereâs Osama bin Laden, of course, killed in May.
Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) leader Anwar al-Awlaki as of today.
Earlier this month officials confirmed that al Qaedaâs chief of Pakistan operations, Abu Hafs al-Shahri, was killed in Waziristan, Pakistan.
In August, âAtiyah âAbd al-Rahman, the deputy leader of al Qaeda was killed.
In June, one of the groupâs most dangerous commanders, Ilyas Kashmiri, was killed in Pakistan. In Yemen that same month, AQAP senior operatives Ammar al-Waâili, Abu Ali al-Harithi, and Ali Saleh Farhan were killed. In Somalia, Al-Qaâida in East Africa (AQEA) senior leader Harun Fazul was killed.
Administration officials also herald the recent U.S./Pakistani joint arrest of Younis al-Mauritani in Quetta.
Going back to August 2009, Tehrik e-Taliban Pakistan leader Baitullah Mahsud was killed in Pakistan.
In September of that month, Jemayah Islamiya operational planner Noordin Muhammad Top was killed in Indonesia, and AQEA planner Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan was killed in Somalia.
Then in December 2009 in Pakistan, al Qaeda operational commanders Saleh al-Somali and âAbdallah Saâid were killed.
In February 2010, in Pakistan,  Taliban deputy and military commander Abdul Ghani Beradar was captured; Haqqani network commander Muhammad Haqqani was killed; and Lashkar-e Jhangvi leader Qari Zafar was killed.
In March 2010, al Qaeda operative Hussein al-Yemeni was killed in Pakistan, while senior Jemayah Islamiya operative Dulmatin  - accused of being the mastermind behind the 2002 Bali bombings â was killed during a raid in Indonesia.
In April 2010, al Qaeda in Iraq leaders Abu Ayyub al-Masri and Abu Omar al-Baghdadi were killed.
In May, al Qaedaâs number three commander, Sheik Saeed al-Masri was killed.
In June 2010 in Pakistan, al Qaeda commander Hamza al-Jawfi was killed.
Remember when Rudy Giuliani warned that electing Barack Obama would mean that the U.S. played defense, not offense, against the terrorists?
If this is defense, what does offense look like?
-Jake Tapper
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idiot
 @deejm2112 KHEB liked to fantasize about things that never have or will happen.
Will Obama be asked any real questions concerning his problem with the Libya Terrorist attack? It seems that you have to go to the BBC to get any real news "Libya killings: Obama faces new questions on Benghazi" since the main stream media is covering for Obama. Our embassy in Benghazi asked no less than eight times for increased security from the Obama administration, but they were denied every time. The deaths of  Ambassador Christopher Stevens, another diplomat, Sean Smith, and two security personnel are on Obama's hands. They died due to Obama's constant denial of the Muslim Terrorists threat to America.
@last boyscout Tonights topic is domestic policy. It's not until the 16th and/or 22nd that those questions can be asked of Obama. The 16th is a town hall format covering both domestic and foreign policy while the 22nd is foreign policy only.
 @JTesla  @last Careful...you'll confuse them with the facts!
 @last boyscout I would be surprised if there will be any remotely tough questions for O, but please do not go to BBC - as much as I despise CNN, FOX and other mainstream news, BBC is definitely at the bottom of this already disgusting pack.
 Will Obama Lie In Debate Like He's Lied In Campaign? Of course he willâ¦.
 @KHEB He will just blame the "Bush administration"..... for everything!!!
 @KHEB ALL politicians lie. They can't help themselves.
 @KHEB I predict they both will!
May the best liar win!
 @fulcrum Actually only Obama will be getting a free pass by the press to lie without getting called out. Romney will have every word he says scrutinized down to the last letter and will go front page on every paper and show if not correct.
NO teleprompters at this one...It will be interesting to see how the President does without it.....
I can't wait to watch Obama stutter.Â
R got my vote. He might be out of touch with people who struggle to keep track of their credit cards (not sure that this is a bad thing) and he is far from perfect, but he clearly understands economy and I would way rather him making economic decisions than community organizer. I also believe in lesser role of a government in social sphere and less apologizing to our foreign enemies. R is a corrupt politician just like the rest of them, but his agenda is closer to mine than the alternative.
 @Julie I don't call cutting taxes and increasing military spending "understanding the economy".
 @deejm2112 Maybe that is why you do not pay millions in taxes every year.
 @deejm2112 Obama was perfectly following Bush on bailing out the banks. Obama, having all democratic senate for the first 2 years, did not change any of Bush's tax policies or any other meaningful changes. I agree that there is something fundamentally wrong with this system, but the government spending is probably one of the biggest issues and Obama does it faster than any president in US history, even accounting for inflation.
 @Julie Must be slow today...usually I pick up on that pretty quickly.
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I do pretty good thanks, the fact of the matter is, Republican policies put us where we are, 4 years after a recession that technically was bigger than the great depression (~40% of $ loss vs. ~33% of $ loss) is clearly not enough time to get things "back to normal". You complain about $ redistribution but what about the government bank bailouts to the very institutions that caused it? (been reading a bit about central banks). THIS GOVERNMENT BORROWS 100% OF IT'S MONEY FROM BANKS AND WE HAVE TO PAY IT BACK WITH INTEREST AND HERE WE ARE GIVING THEM MONEY. There is something so inherently wrong and corrupt about this system it's a complete joke, but hey, let's just put those guys that care more about the rich and our polyarchy back in office while the rest of us buy this democracy illusion and are continually driven down further by grossly negligent policies that ultimately rob the common folks while feeding those at the top...no thanks. The system is wrong but there is absolutely a lesser evil and it ain't Robmey.
 @Julie Did you miss Romney's All Apology foreign tour this summer? Was there anyone he didn't offend and apologize to?
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As for his economic knowledge: He doesn't believe anything bad happened in 2005-2010. He says if we go back to the rules that were in place then, everything will be fine. Total lack of anything vaguely resembling a clue about reality.,
 @ShallowEnder I did miss it. Can you show me where he expressed his regrets over our freedom of speech before he condemned the deadly attacks on US embassies?
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You also seems to know stuff about R's economic believes I don't - did Obama told you that or you learned it from CNN?
 @Julie No, he apologized for his own foot in his mouth, although he did apologize for our free speech when he was governor of Mass (to the JDL for allowing a Nazi rally).
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As for the policies, I did read Ryan's proposed budgets (from his own web site) showing major increases in both defense spending (to corporations) and corporate welfare, as well as Romney limited detail on his spending proposals from his own campaign website.
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The candidates really hate it when you read what they actually put up in detail. So do the partisan pukes on both sides.
Ooh the puppets take the stage.... better get those teleprompters warmed up, the scripted speaches out and the "audience" plants in place with thier loaded questions.   What a bunch of bull.  Too bad we dont have democracy in this country.
Theater is exactly what this is. There is no 'debate' to be had. Both candidates will spew their prepared speeches. A 'moderator' will feign to ask 'questions', then both candidates will again spew prepared comments which may (or more likely may not) have anything whatsoever to do with the 'question'.
So Obama the great speaker will speak and mitt will say things like pull my finger??
Oh Wait he will have cream filled sponge cake ...zinggers..
 @cptmac11 How did that debate go for you? lol
@cptmac11 lol the great speaker roflmfao
Snorefest.
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Neither candidate has a detailed plan for anything, and I'm so sick of soundbyte politics and style over substance.
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Four empty suits are the best the so-called major parties can muster? Sad commentary.
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My vote is withheld due to a total lack of anyone worth voting for.
 @ShallowEnder While I agree with your sentiment I've always felt it's important to vote for the lesser of two evils in this case Romney previously Bush not because I thought they were going to do anything great for the country but because their counterparts were going to do things that were definitely detrimental. So while withholding my vote may have made me feel better it certainly would've ended up hurting my pocket book as well as the country and my kids futures.
@FreedomRocks @ShallowEnder The most retarded thing I have ever heard anyone say " I am voting for the lesser of the two evils"Â ... REALLY you gotta be smarter than that c'mon.
 @FreedomRocks  @!!!  @ShallowEnder Where has the voting for the lesser of two evils got you lately. The last 12 or so years have been all about voting for the lesser of two evils and we are all tanked. If we keep voting for the lesser of two evils we are just going to suffer another 4 years of no jobs, no money and no way to support our families.These 2 have spoken a big game but when a high percent of the people would rather not vote for either, the situation needs to be looked at.Â
 @!!!  @FreedomRocks  @ShallowEnder So are you one of those independents it's really going to show those corrupt politicians by withholding your vote. I bet you run me and Obama are quaking in their boots for all those people like you that are in a stick it to the man by not voting.
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You might try pulling your head out of the sand every once in a while and looking around to see what's going on though it could be helpful...
@FreedomRocks @ShallowEnder "vote for the lesser of two evils" I keep seeing that. Ignoring that the lesser evil to you might be a great evil to others it still follows that the lesser of two evils is still evil. Many of the Republican faithful do consider their candidate to be a lesser evil, that alone should cause some serious post election soul searching for the party. If not, they are doomed to repeat the mistakes that the Democrats made between the late 60âs through the 80âs
 @FreedomRocks Sorry, but I don't see a lesser of two evils. Just equal and opposite evils.
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Both will continue the war on small business: Obama supporting Labor and Romney supporting BIG business.
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Neither is concerned with the deficit: Romney wants to cut taxes and raise spending (military) with no plan for real cuts anywhere; Obama wants to raise both taxes and spending.
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Neither will admit that the president doesn't mean squat to the economy (nor does congress, for that matter).
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In short, it's similar to a choice between Hitler and Himmler: there is no lesser evil.
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I've built a eight digit net worth after 26 years in the military (Col., US Army, ret.), with a very successful company (employing 2000) built from scratch (started in the garage with my brother and myself). My children will be just fine (one daughter now a Captain in the USN, the other contemplating scholarship offers from many colleges), as will the rest of my family. I see problems ahead, but not the apocalypse the scaremongers of both the left and the right whine about. I'm far more concerned about infrastructure (road, rail, power, water) then the tripe we're being fed today.
 @Julie  @ShallowEnder Very true I am a minority at my engineering job:)
 @Julie  @ShallowEnder I'm glad to hear you safely made it to the greatest place to live on the planet. You can bet that if Obama could take our guns and money away he would do it in a heart beat. I believe the reason those who believe like he do are always anti-gun is because they know that if they can disarm then it is much easier to then relieve them or their belongings and wealth.
 @ShallowEnder  @Julie Sorry but my real-life experiences with relatives, friends, etc do not fit with your opinion of how many people do not take advantage of the system.
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Right now I can think of more then half a dozen people who are more than capable of doing the right thing but choose not to because the government makes it so easy to get free stuff.
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Whether it be to have your kid be emancipated at 16 so that your wealth can't be counted against them when looking for a mostly free college education or just choosing not to take a job because you can get by on welfare even though as you mentioned it's not a great living.
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The level of abuse believe is far higher than even our government estimates. I know at least 4 people who got laid off in their first response was I'm not even going to bother to look for a job for six months because I can get by on unemployment.
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While not everyone could survive unemployment had large number of people could and do so that they get a paid vacation by the rest of us.
 @ShallowEnder  @FreedomRocks I see people drool over government check all the time. Not sure if you ever visited the government housing neighborhoods, but you can see lots of people who would not work because government sustains them. They are young, healthy and walking on the streets in the middle of the day looking for troubles. The occupy movement is a great example. Illegals work on our farms because locals have better options. We flood our high paying engineering jobs with Indians and Russians because good education is too hard for Americans, so they rather occupy something.
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 @Julie  @ShallowEnder Excellent response and one of the primary reasons everyone should be voting in this election.
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Obama is trying to fundamentally shift our entire nation away from the made it the most desired place in the world to live into. He wants to make it more like the ones that have managed to limp along for thousands of years longer but were quickly overtaken by America in less than 200 years.
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The sole reason America has been so successful is that capitalism and human nature work hand-in-hand. No one is going to work 70 hours a week so they can buy cell phones and flat screens for their the neighbor who only grudgingly works 20 hours a week. They do it because it directly benefits them.
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Once people like Obama take that direct incentive away by taking from those who work hard to give to those who don't you're going to see our country become just like France or Greece. One where nobody wants to work very hard because they don't get any benefit from it.
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Before all you screaming liberals start complaining about uncaring conservatives I am not talking about people who can't work hard because of a physical or mental disability and should be taken care of by society.
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I'm talking about those who are just too damn lazy or choose to sit around the house stoned all day because it's more fun then working and the government is willing to give them money so they don't have to work.
 @ShallowEnder  @FreedomRocks ...and one more comment - many years ago I came to US from the Ukraine - the country where many people had lots of 'net worth' and felt very safe until one day socialists came to power and the rich became the enemies and were sent to labor camps. Things can change fast - there are many examples to it in history.
 @Julie  @FreedomRocks Baloney. I'm very familiar with every proposal on "redistribution" and there are as many efforts from the right to redistribute my money to corporate America as there are to give it to the poor from the left.
I've never seen anyone "drool" over government payouts. In doing audits of many agencies and programs across the country, I've never heard of a reipient saying "I'm sorry I got a job instead of keeping on collecting that pittance of a welfare check." Fraud happens, but its rare (much to the dismay of the anti-government crowd), and while they may like the benefits from Fraud, the hammer does eventually come down and they don't like that.
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 @FreedomRocks My post got cut off.
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I'll support someone with a detailed plan. I haven't seen on on ANY of our problems yet. I'd also like to hear some plans to prosecute some of the Wall Street crowd for the crash.
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I'd also like some plan from someone on handling health care costs, which will bankrupt many US businesses in the near future. (NOTE: Health Care costs are not the same as Health Insurance costs. No one from any party has proposed ANYTHING to control actual care costs.)
 @ShallowEnder  @FreedomRocks One of the biggest problems with Obama is that he caters to the crowd that wants to take you 8-digit worth and split it among the rest of them. I agree that effectively, there will not be much difference, but Obama sets the minds of millions of people on government programs to drool over your wallet. Obama encourages mentality of parasites and envy. The difference in candidates is the mentality that they foster in our country.
 @FreedomRocks I not only contribute to many charities (seven figures last year), but I also sponsor and mentor kids all around the area. Unlike most of the 1%, I get to get my hands dirty trying to improve things as well as shelling out tax deductions, er, donations.
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I feel a great deal of empathy for all the problems (unemployment, financial fraud by the mortgage companies and lending institutions, job migration, lack of health care availability/affordability, lack of education funds, etc. etc. etc.).
 @ShallowEnder It's very nice you're lucky enough to have your family situation set and you feel nothing for your fellow Americans and what they might be undergoing...