Incoming Washington lawmaker proposes arming teachers
SALMON CREEK, Wash. – An incoming state representative from Camas is considering a proposal to change state law to allow guns in schools.
Republican Liz Pike wants to bring up a bill that would let teachers carry concealed guns in the classroom.
Under Pike's proposal, teachers at schools like Salmon Creek Elementary could volunteer to go through mental evaluations and week-long gun training at their own expense. They would also buy their own guns to bring into their classes and wear on a belt or in a holster – not in a purse or drawer.
Every school district would get to choose if teachers can carry weapons. Pike said it would be confidential and only law enforcement and the superintendent would know which teachers have weapons.
"They're designed to be concealed, and in a perfect situation a student will never see that gun," Pike said.
She posted her idea on her Facebook page, asking for feedback. She said it would be like the federal program for pilots that started after 9/11 where they can volunteer to train and carry.
Pike believes that mentally ill people would then understand that schools are not gun-free zones and they would not want to attack them like the shooter did in Sandy Hook.
"There is a possibility that there will be a teacher protecting those children and there might be somebody (the teacher) shooting back," Pike said. "It's basically a message to the mentally ill people that would do these terrible things to our children in our schools."
But some other state representatives disagree.
"I think we just need to be better prepared to handle the mental health issues that come up," said Rep.-elect Monica Stonier, D-Vancouver. "People who are looking for ways to hurt other people will do that whether there is a gun around or not. So we need to be approaching that from a mental health perspective."
Stonier said she supports the Second Amendment but believes guns in schools would not make kids safer.
"That's not fool proof, and to have guns in a classroom with my children, or anybody's children, when the focus isn't on gun safety and education. And focus is supposed to be on education. That's a problem for me."
She said there's not enough focus on dealing with mental health issues.
Pike said she also supports mental health solutions but said that will take a long time and there's no time to wait.
Pike will start her work in the Legislature Jan. 14. She said at least five other lawmakers in Washington have come up with similar ideas.
I agree with Fed up Fed on this. When Billy Bad Asses' dad gets mad at a teacher for real or imagined ill treatment of his son, he's coming to school armed and stupid, then th teacher is the target.
Okay Stoner, lets lock the barn door after the horses get out. Arm the teachers, principle, coaches And janitors. Be ready for the worst, give it a try.
I think in a perfect world we would not need guns, however their's a reason cops carry guns.Â
 when you call for help do you ask for a unarmed officer only? i think not!
 The police would love to protect us all the time,but When seconds count the police are only minutes away, and usaully end up taking reports. We need to protect are children, they are counting on us parents, teachers and police. The Bad guys need to know that schools are not easy targets.
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Thank you Liz Pike, for taking a active role in protecting my Grandson  who's in the battleground school Distric.
more fear mongering. the gun manufacturers love it!
Arming the teachers is the only solution. Since the criminally insane are let loose, the police are 15 minutes away, we have to protect ourselves. Designating "gun free" zones have to end because that's what is being targeted by the murderers.  When they learn they will be confronted at the schools they will move to different targets. Simple solution that is working quite well in Israel.
 @DavidGoldberg14 Why would you want second-rate, reluctant people guarding your children? Hire armed security guards, if that is what we have come to, who know and do their job, and let the teachers get on with education. People who are mentally ill are not going to "understand" anything about society and violence unless they are taking their medication. I'm also curious how these proponents of having loaded weapons in the classroom suggest that we can stop mass shootings at shopping malls (Clackamas), or movie theaters (Colorado, or workplace violence. Are you proposing that everyone must be armed at all times? There must be a better solution. And yes, I am a teacher, and yes, I have guns. I've enjoyed target practicing for over 50 years--and I am female.
@tawanka @DavidGoldberg14
Being a teacher, do you consider yourself as being second-rate? If you have, as you say, training and skills with a handgun and are reluctant to use those skills to protect the children entrusted to your care then that is your choice. Others should be free to make other choices.
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No, we do not need to have everybody carry guns at all times. Only that responsible law-abiding adults who want to carry them be allowed to do so. You say there must be a better solution. I think there may be a better solution but I am willing to admit that I don't know what that is. If you do then please share it with us.Â
Great. Make schools even more like prisons than they already are. But conservatives love their wars and their prisons.
@realoldguy --- Do you believe government buildings should be arm guarded? If so, even when they are empty? Just wondering.
You all act like there are no teachers capable or willing to pack. I realize most are liberals loons (as is evidenced by the brainwashed and knowledge lacking kids that come from the system), but I know there must be some gun loving teachers out there that would be willing to stand up to protect the kids. I know if I were a teacher, I would be one of the first in line to take on that responsibility - for no extra charge!
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 @Fed up Fed I get what you re saying and agree whole heartedly, however, with the big fiscal cliff issue going on. Where are we going to find the funds to pay for what you are suggesting? Then the only other alternative is to cont. sending our kids to school with little to no protection what so ever, and simply hope for the best.
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There is just no quick solution to this problem but there has to be something that we can do soon.
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@Fed up Fed Lol.....you crack me up....not even worth a rebuttle...
 @Fed up Fed  @Evielyn  @FedÂ
http://www.sofmag.com/stopping-next-mass-shooter
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THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET OF MASS SHOOTERS: There is a dirty little secret about mass shooters: When confronted by armed citizens, they fold â and fold quickly. Whether it was the 2005 Tyler courthouse shooting, the 2007 shooting at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, or the mass shooting at the Clackamas Town Center in Oregon on 21 December â armed citizens often limited the damage done by violent psychos.
Having read many of the comments listed here, consider the following:
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Locks keep honest people honest.
A person determined to steal will find a way.
Now, given a choice of:
1). "This property appears unprotected (might be locked)". Little risk - probable target
2). Â "This property appears to be protected (has stickers on doors and windows stating property is monitored by ??? security company). Could have cameras, potentially alarmed - I'm thinking law enforcement could show up soon.)". Greater risk -Â still a possible target
3). "This property is clearly protected (fenced grounds, well lit, clearly patroled by canine/visible armed guards - and a good bet that there are alarms and other communications to summon additional assistance if needed)". Greatest risk - even a mentally ill individual would probably go elsewhere
Which do you think a person would choose? I would think the easiest option with the least risk.
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Protect the kids!
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Mental Illness is an issue that does need to be addressed.
Gun Control vs 2nd Ammend RIGHTS are issues that need to be addressed.
But don't confuse the issues . . . .
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PROTECT the kids!
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A school that has a "No Gun Policy"Â is a prime target and could easily become a massacre!
A school with armed veterans (many would do this for free) at the doors and legally armed teachers (Both of which would have to pass Mental Evaluations and Gun Safety Certification Classes) Â would probably never be a target. Not a cure all but a step in the right direction.
The difference - (cold but true) is body count.
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PROTECTÂ the KIDS!
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And for those that worry about teachers turning the guns on the kids . . .
The teachers would have to be certifiably trained with the guns like they are certified to teach.
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If you really want to worry . . . go all the way overboard!
Worry about the teachers in:
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Home Economics (knives for food preperation, slicing, dicing and dismemberment);
Shop (multiple instruments for torment and torture -Â hammers, saws, drills, metal pipes, chains,etc.);
Gym (jump ropes for strangulation, street hockey sticks for clubs);
chemistry class (can anyone say home made bomb?)
and my favorite -
English class (people don't mispell words -Â pens and pencils do! Not only that but they can also stab students without another human being involved!!!!!)Â
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PROTECT THE KIDS!
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@LCLycan   My chemistry professor in college taught us how to make a bomb with a few simple household products. Was pretty impressive.
 @LCLycan Well put!!
Thank you
Who will decide who is allowed to be armed at school? The police officers on school grounds should of course be allowed to carry their service weapon.
The teachers? Possibly if they are determined to be stable and able to pass regular training with a weapon.
Now if some teachers are allowed to carry weapons, when will it stop? As mentioned elsewhere they need to have vests in safe, also have an extra AR15 to match firepower. Why stop with an AR15, go with full on M16, or perhaps an M240 which would probably match firepower also.
How about the parents that want to be totally assured that the teacher(s) that are armed are really able to handle it.
It may be thought to keep secret who is armed or not, but that is not giving out the right information.
There is no real easy answer. Arming teachers?Only if they can really pass an evaluation.
Some say they are ex military...so...ex-miltary does not really mean much, unless they received a truly honorable discharge. Some people have been in the military, and were unable to handle it and receive less than honorable discharge.
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 @Just Lookin No body should decide "who". Let the staff that have conceal carry licenses CARRY! No money spent and they have their constitutional rights restored. No one should have their rights stripped because of where they work. Period. And if they have a conceal carry, they won't be packing an AR-15 now would they? Kind of hard to conceal...
To all of you that think arming teachers is a bad idea.....seriously?? How many of our teachers are ex military? To give teachers the option to carry is an absolute must in this day in age. Not to have a gun or two locked in a safe in the office. Do any of you know how FAST something like this happens?? No its not a cure all....but sure is a deterrent to any would be martyr hell bent on slaughtering innocent people ( kids ). We entrust our teachers everyday to protect our kids from danger....this is just the next step.
@RLV  You cannot have the guns locked in a safe if they are to be effective. The teachers must pack them. By the time they got to the safe, they and many others could already be dear. Guns as protection don't do much good if you don't have immediate access to the loaded tool.
 @wonderingÂ
It's the same situation in a home, but it is no solution. And for every story about a homeowner who had a loaded gun at the ready and killed an intruder, I can give you a 100 accidental deaths of kids who got their hands on unsecured guns. The notion that you and yours are safer is emotional - you FEEL safer - but the data support just the opposite. I agree with the person who said that the feeling of being safer or braver with a concealed weapon can even lead people into doing unsafe things that get them and/or others killed.
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@wondering Thats what I was saying....NOT have them locked in a safe. By the time one was able to get it, the carnage would prob be over, and the chicken %@# would have already killed himself....
"How many of our teachers are ex military?"
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However on the other side of the coin, how many received truly honorable discharges? How many might have been discharged for the good of the service, or because they could not handle it. It would be a partial deterent...maybe. Until society wakes up to the problems that have been allowed to happen, there is no real easy answer.
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 @Just Lookin Typically, folks with a dishonorable discharge wouldn't be teaching. A dishonorable discharge is NOT a good thing, and can follow a person all their life. I was honorably discharged after serving 4 yrs in the Marines, but know of guys that weren't, and would be VERY surprised if a school district would hire someone with a DD.
I agree, there is no REAL answer....but until there is, we need to prep ourselves. And no I am not a doomsday type guy or anything like that. But it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it.....
 @RLV It is inevitable.  Parents and grandparents know too much to go back and pretend that gun free zones keep children alive.
 @Bob Larimer I agree. Too many people on here, and in general, are either too ignorant or misguided. " Get rid of all guns, that's the answer " It is if your a dangerous person with bad intentions.....cause THOSE are the people who will have guns.
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What is going to happen when the teachers use the guns on the unintended targets - the misbehaving kids? We need to think about spreading love and making more people read romance books. http://x.co/rDlw
 @Tony Best ~ That sounds like something right out of the '60s... didn't work very well then... probably wouldn't work any better now...  "peace-and-love, peace-and-love" is a nifty idea, but this is the real world, people by humans... and the kinds of people who go after little kids in schools, or innocent shoppers in a mall or moviegoers in a theater, are NOT in a "peace-and-love" frame of mind - all too often, they're not even in a remotely RATIONAL state of mind...Â
Sadly, Tony, the utopia you want only exists in the romance novels you want everybody to read...Â
 @Tony Best Really?  This is your best, squeaking, anti-gun objection?Try again.
 @Tony Best Are you actually being serious??? Or are you just THAT ignorant??
 @Tony Best Do you really think if a teacher wanted to murder their students, they couldn't do so right now?
 I must admit that I've always been a bit puzzled by the concept that just because it's a 'school' (college, primary or school property), that someone who has a CWP should be forced to surrender that right. To me, it's basically an advertisement to any nut-job with maniacal intent that it is a safe haven for them to go on a rampage, knowing that the policy/laws guarantee that they will not meet any armed resistance to their efforts. In OR, they go so far as to (in some districts) require that police officers do not carry their duty weapons while on campus.Â
 I don't tend to believe that any person (other than someone doing so by protocol IE-on duty law enforcement personel) should be required to carry, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why someone believes that it's a good idea to mandate that no one can. I can see school districts requiring some demonstration of proficency, and possibly even some sort of mental evaluation, but to just flat-out require that school property be a 'gun free zone', to me, is just advertising to the mentally unstable that this is a target rich environment.Â
 @MarkKpic ~  I agree, Mark... I'll add that what I think is really hypocritical about declaring schools to be "gun-free zones" is that there are private schools, such as the one attended by Pres Obama's 2 daughters, who have ARMED security personnel on duty... that particular school has, I believe, 11 such security guards - all armed - in addition to the SS security that is provided for the Obama girls.   I would not be at all surprised if I learned that other private schools have such security for their students. Â
Seems to me that they're saying that students are allowed to be safe at school IF their parents are rich and/or famous, and can afford to pay the very high cost of sending their kids to such schools... BUT that kids attending PUBLIC schools are somehow NOT worthy of security...
Can't speak for anyone else, but I find this to be a LOT MORE than a little one-sided...
@MarkKpic I totally agree, but on the other side those that ban guns in schools demand their money, when they fly, go to sporting events etc have protection, seems just a bit hypocrital and nothing but an polical agenda, because if they agree their whole gun-grabbing political agenda would go down the drain.
An article from the left media that actually has a reasonable discussion.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-santiago/reducing-gun-violence-mus_b_2340885.html
 @flyroy ~  Probably one of the most rational discussions I've seen yet on this very volatile subject... Thank you for the link, flyroy..!
The teachers don't necessarily have to be carrying all of the time. Â Just having weapons and body armor in a safe would be a huge improvement over nothing at all. Â It doesn't HAVE to be just handguns either. Â They could keep an AR-15 available to match firepower if necessary. Â Just something to hold the bad guys off until the police arrive to assist.
If the government can't protect us we have to do it ourselves. It's always been that way in degenerating societies.
I am so sicken over all these babies being shot at a school. I do not know what the answer is, but we can not take away peoples rights to bare arms. Having teachers with guns.. Not so sure about that.. We have had some crazy teachers out there to.... But i do think that there needs to be a armed police in every school.. Our children should be safe.. And its time for medial Illness to be addressed..
 @Cheryl Ann Hermansen If you trust teachers with other people's children, best trust them to defend those kids too.
Someone's trying to take away our right to "bare arms". That's shocking! I hate long-sleeved shirts in the summer. T-Shirts Rule!
This is her argument? "It's basically a message to the mentally ill people that would do these terrible things to our children in our schools."
As we've clearly seen, mentally ill people are just that. In the most publicized shooting of the past month (Clackamas Town Center and Newton, Connecticut) the shooters took their own lives. These aren't people looking to get out of the situation alive. They have a mental disease and are suicidal. What happens when the gun appears like it did in the Astoria movie theater and a kid gets his hands on it? Or the father in Pennsylvania who set his gun down inside his truck and it discharged, killing his son sitting inside? ("I didn't know it was loaded." I never want to have to hear a teacher say, "I didn't know it was loaded" to the parent of a dead child.)
We need an honest look at ourselves. First, do we really need assault rifles that shoot multiple rounds and bullets designed to inflict the most internal damage possible? Second, we need to take a hard look at how we treat mental disease in our society. We need to get rid of the stigma associated that prevents most from seeking treatment; and we need to allow states to step in to help those who need it, before it's too late as we've seen it often is.
 @jamorris thanks for your post. It says very well points that I have been making in other conversations.  As a person who shoots, and is also a teacher, I am in total opposition to arming teachers in the classroom. Hire security guards who are trained to do that job, and let the teachers do theirs. In addition, why does everyone seem to assume that if you have a gun you will win. Since the victims aren't making the decision about the shooting, they rarely get the first shot off. Second shots aren't necessarily effective.Â
@:C:ycan: As retired home ec teacher, allow me to assure you that I hardly ever went after my students with a knife, sewing needles, or any other objects of violence. Haven't heard of any others who did, either. :-)
 @jamorris This is a response built totally around revulsion at the sight of a gun.Lame, limp-wristed responses and gun free zones have not protected children.Armed school personnel  will.
 @jamorris So how would you protect our children RIGHT now? Mental health? That's gonna take a decade or two first.Â
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Getting rid of assault weapons? Hmmm thousands and thousands already in circulation. Want to make people hand them over? The ones who break the law and keep them? Not the ones we want having them.
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I n the meant time lets just send our children to school where they are completely and utterly, ineffectively protected, and what? Pray for the best?Â
 @Evielyn Â
I don't know what the answer is but I believe I know what it's not - it's not more guns. That is the definition of insanity - doing more of the same and expecting a different outcome. Oh, the particulars may change (teachers killed with their own guns, students killed accidently, student suicides, you know the all the same kind of stuff that happens with guns in private homes?) but the problem of gun deaths will never get better by throwing more guns at it.
 @ormom Yes! Thank you! Teachers should teach. That is a full time job.
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 @ormom  @Bob Larimer There is a hug difference in your first post from your second post Ormom. Not once but twice you said NOT to add more guns in your first post. Not armed teachers, but guns in general. Then you said armed security.Â
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Care to reread?
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I don't know what the answer is but I believe I know what it's not - it's not more guns. That is the definition of insanity - doing more of the same and expecting a different outcome. Oh, the particulars may change (teachers killed with their own guns, students killed accidently, student suicides, you know the all the same kind of stuff that happens with guns in private homes?) but the problem of gun deaths will never get better by throwing more guns at it.
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Drastic difference b/w the two posts. So don't pretend you didn't wiffle waffle.
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There is a huge difference b/w armed guards - however the government can barely find money to pay for their own raises, paying people to protect the schools is  a bit of a pipe dream at this juncture.Â
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But yes you made a drastic change from post one - More guns is not the answer! - To armed guards are the answer!
 @Bob Larimer  @EvielynÂ
There is no inconsistency between my first and second posts. Having an armed security guard is not the same as arming civilian teachers who have other PRIMARY duties and I'm surprised you don't see the huge difference.
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Anti-gun hysteria? Your knee-jerk assessment of who I am is much closer to an hysterical reaction.
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I get the distinct impression that you somehow think there is a way to fully protect school children from people like this, i.e., if you can throw enough counter fire-power at the problem. It's just not possible and that too is a tragedy. but it is unfortunately our reality. The best we can do is take reasonable precautions and not make things worse by over-reacting and having unforseen problems arise from acting in panic. On average in 2009, 93 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. each day. That statistic dwarfs the number killed in mass shootings but look how we all accept it and expose ours children to this much higher risk in order to live our lives. We have to balance risk with being able to actually function and not paralyze ourselves and our kids with fear. If that isn't enough for a parent then I think they owe it to their children and themselves to homeschool. or start a private co-op where they can have as much control as they need to feel safe.
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For every parent who thinks an armed teacher(s) is a solution there is another one who thinks it's a creating another risk. For every parent who will pull their kid from a school without an armed presence, there is another who will pull their child because their is an armed presence. It is going to take time for people to get beyond their panic and come up with a reasoned plan that the majority of parents find acceptable.
 @ormom  @Evielyn Ormon, that is just pathetically foolish.  The doors were locked at Sandy Hook Elementary.The shooter came through anyway.Only armed school personnel could have stopped him before he slaughtered all those innocent people.Â
 @ormom  @Evielyn Doing more of the same?More of the same has been gun free zones and 'new' safety rules, just like the Principal at Sandy Hook Elementary implemented.Then the shooter killed her dead.Then he killed 20 children dead.Your anti-gun hysteria is not helpful my friend.An armed teacher is the best first defense against a deranged killer on the loose in a school.Â
 @ormom That's a a reasonable alternative solution. Also a far cry from your initial post.
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"...but the problem of gun deaths will never get better by throwing more guns at it."
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"I think locking the school doors and having armed security..."
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Yes I accept the risk of driving a car, however I drive one with many safety features, I can review the consumer reports and I take steps necessary to provide the safety that I can. Such as a car seat.
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I will not however, and sit idly by while we continue to provide 0 protection to a good chunk of the schools in our area. I'm not given the same choices and security options in a school, as I am in a car.
 @EvielynÂ
As bad as these shootings are it's important to keep things in perspective. Your child is at far greater risk of dying in the family car than they are of being in one of these shootings. You simply cannot control what people in other cars on the road may do accidentally or otherwise. Yet you accept that risk as a part of being able to function on a daily basis. The feelings of helplessness and shock make these shooting feel so much worse than the daily risks we all take but it's important to remain realistic about the actual risk to our children and not overreact on 'solutions'.
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I think locking the school doors and having armed security makes more sense than arming teachers. Teachers should teach - not be providing armed security.
 @ormom That being said - I would think, that if they make it so guns are in schools they are gonna put some pretty strict restrictions on how teachers comport themselves in schools with said guns. IE on the body in a holster concealed, for all the reasons you mentioned.Â
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The fact is right now there is no solution, but I'd rather my daughter was protected, then bury my head in the sand and spend my time wishing and praying all the bad people will stop being bad.
 @ormom No, doing the same thing over and expecting different results is continuing to send our children to a place every day with virtually no protection and hoping that no more bad happens.
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Adding protection is Changing the situation and expecting different results.
 @Evielyn  @jamorris I would suggest sprinkling pixie dust around the schools, erecting an altar to Gaia, and holding a candlelight vigil to ward of bad stuff, but I'm afraid someone would think it was actually a good idea and turn it into a law.