Light rail measure on the ballot for Special Election
PORTLAND, Ore. - This week's Special Election in Clackamas County will determine how we pay for light rail projects.
If Measure 3-401 passes, it would require voter approval before county leaders could spend money on future light rail lines (this would not affect the Portland-Milwaukie Light Rail Transit Project that is already under way).
Here's the summary from the county's election website:
This measure requires an election before county resources can be used for the financing, design, construction or operation of any public rail transit system. The measure defines "county resources" to mean any public funds, staff time, lobbying agreements, property interest, tangible or intangible county assets. "Public rail transit system" is not defined in the measure. Any authority to use county resources gained through a voter approved ordinance is strictly limited to the authorization in the ordinance. Any measure submitted for voter approval must provide sufficient public notice of the authority granted. Notice must include the types of county resources authorized, permissible uses of county resources, estimated cash value of county resources used and duration of the authority. Sufficient public notice requires a certified ballot title that accurately summarizes the authority granted and a link to a detailed description hosted on a county website. If this cannot be accomplished, the county must provide such information by mail at least 21 days before the election. This measure would be effective immediately.
We spoke to voters on both sides to learn the reasons behind their votes.
"I believe we have the right to vote and voice our opinion on where our money is spent," said Karl Hagele, who is voting for Measure 3-401.
"Obviously, some things I would like to vote on but it's got to be a little trust in who we put in office or we get them out of office if we don't like what they're doing," said Victoria Flagg, who is voting against Measure 3-401.
Ballots are due by 8 p.m. on Tuesday, Sept. 18.
- Outline of the measure in the Voters' Pamphlet
- Ballot drop-off sites
- Election results (after 8 p.m. on Tuesday)
This measure is going to pass by HUGE margins.
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Then the subsequent measure to get money for light rail will fail miserably.
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Clackamas County folks, particularly Lake Oswego folks, don't like infrastructure projects and since so few use Light Rail, none of them want to pay for it.
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Heck we couldn't get Clackamas to pay for a bridge (Sellwood) where 80% of the users are from there or to there.
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Instead folks from Hood River end up flipping the bill.
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Let the 3% of the population who actually use the thing, pay for it.
Before you decide read every little detail of the measure including everything that has been attached to it.
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There is more in this and too this then just Light Rail.
Vote YES on 3-401. Â Stop crime and run away spending.
@sortbait Using your same logic, we should stop crime by taking away guns. Because we all know that guns don't kill people, people do. So apply the same logic when it comes to light rail. Light rail does not commit crime, people riding light rail do. Light rail is not the cause.
 @sortbait It's not known as "crime rail" for nothing!
@PDX Dave @sortbait Its funny when some whack job goes out and kills someone with a gun people say guns don't kill people, people kill people. But when it comes to crime on light rail, the logic is now reversed. It's nolonger light rail doesn't commit crime, passengers do but light rail causes crime. Pure hypocrisy.
 @sortbait Your comment on crime is very vague. You mean crime on the trains?
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Crime happens the same if not more to people in cars, people walking down the sidewalks, people sitting in there homes in the evening watching TV, etc...
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Care to elaborate more?
The problem is that this can open an entire can of worms, such as the aforementioned inability of Clackamas Fire & Sheriff to assist an Amtrak derailment. In the way its worded, it's vague enough that the county could be sued for doing just that. The way its worded sets a very dangerous precedent.
 @OSUx2 That seems to be a big problem these days. The way they word these things can be and in some cases is interpreted and used in ways that are not realized when there voted thru by the voters.
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Educate yourself on what exactly your voting for before voting on it.
C'mon Clackamas county..... pass this measure.
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Its only right the voters should approve something they would have to pay for.
You did. It's called voting for a Commissioner. Are you seriously asking for a vote on every nickel & dime that the County spends? Welcome to anarchy, if so.
@OSUx2 It specifically said on rail transit projects...so you like that crazy woman who wrote and paid for 7 out of the 8 arguments in opposition for need to learn how to read and not try to incorrectly characterize this....
@Duvie23Â I was responding to kramr's last sentence.Â
If light rail is so good, how come they paved over street car tracks in the 50'sto make roads safer for cars? I guess what goes around, comes around!Â
 @jpk You can thank the Auto manufacturers for that.  They helped fund the removal of public transit so everyone would have to buy their cars
It took fewer complaints from fewer folks to shut down PIR 1/4 mile drag racing on Wednesday nights than will be voting on this light rail ballot, yet they succeeded. It comes down to who you are and how liberal the cities leadership is at the time of election. The manner in which the city council has been going around our backs to pay for this crap should embarrass even the staunchest liberal. I wish we could fire every one of these parasites.
This measure 3-401 isn't just light rail. They are for Amtrak, commute rail, metro rail, light rail, street car, passenger and freight high speed rails. If pass, Clackamas emergency services will not be allowing to investigate fatal or injury pedestrian hit by Amtrak train. This measure is a bad idea.  NO on 3-401!!!!
@Michael R. Newton Where did you get your talking points? This is blatantly incorrect. County does not take a commision vote now for everytime emergency services need to be allocated...
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You are spreading lies....
@Duvie23
No actually he is right, read the measure. You may be surprised to learn what is in there.
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Keep one thing in mind thou when reading it read it with a open mind. Read between the lines so to say. Look at all possible effects of each issue brought up in the measure.
I'm not terribly excited to pay for light rail that few in Clackamas will use. However, this bill would effectively kill any further opportunity to even consider light rail in Clackamas County, even if one day it would become something worth pursuing. Why? If the county can't even discuss it (that would be county resources in the form of staff time), then how could it possibly be pursued.
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If you don't like the job they're doing, use your vote to remove them from office. Otherwise, why have a county government?
Yada. Yada. Yada. The knuckledraggers said no one would ride the light rail back when it was getting started. It surpassed its ridership forecasts in the first month.
@Mechanic You are obviously not aware how they achieve those ridership goals....You and your dimwit buddies...
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What they do is after the lightrail line opens they change all the corresponding bus routes in those areas and get rid of any lines that run parallel to the new line...
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For example...when the Portland to Gresham line first open there was major east-west bus lines (multiples and frequent) on all th emajor east-west arterials.....Sandy, Halsey, Glisan, burnside, Stark, Division, Powell, Holgate, and Foster. With the opening of th eline they switched over most of the bus routes to run north-south up the numbered streets to light rail stops...181st, 162nd, 148th, 122nd, etc....Left only a hadnful of the east-west runs...
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It is a shell game.
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The advent of lightrail did not all of a sudden dreate new mass transit riders....just bus riders forced to run on the trains....buses are a lot cheaper and 4 to 5 of them can carry as much as a train....
 @Mechanic I forecast it will reach  50 degrees tomorrow in Portland. So when it does, my forecast will be surpassed. Their forecasts were BS when they wrote them.
Vote YES on measure 3-401 Â !!!!.. Â It gives the people who pay the bills a voice. Â It stops those in power, who are usually liberal from giving are tax dollars away to other cities and trimet without a vote. Â YES on 3-401Â
"Light rail ?"
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Super heavy on expense. Taxpayers beware. This is the Euro-trash way of making things happen.
Nice work all those who were behind this. We need something like this in Multnomah county including money spend on bike lanes.
The more of us who ride bikes the more room there is on the road for the rest of you.
 @MechanicÂ
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I have no issue with that. I rode for work for 20+ years before I retired. I just don't want money spent on bike lanes.
 @Insurrection  @MechanicÂ
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When I started riding there were no bike lanes. I just rode the back streets and did just fine. Now they put bike lanes on the busiest streets the the results is cyclists getting hit by cars all the time.
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There is a bike lane on Foster east of 112 and traffic will go 60 on that stretch. Talk about dangerous. Already one cyclist has been killed there
 @RalphCramden  @Mechanic Have to agree with you there, I pass 3 major roads several times a week with bike lanes and I could just sit there for a couple of hours with a camcorder and record all the violations those on bikes do, exceeds cars by a long shot.
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Of course without the bike lanes it would probably come up with the same results in violations.
Just what I always wanted ... an uninformed, irrational electorate making major transportation decisions. Direct democracy may sound good until one realizes just how few people get engaged in a meaningful manner and how many vote. I don't care for that ratio and neither does anyone I know.
@I812 This is just what people say who usually are not in the majority when it comes to their opinion....People dont want this becuase like sale tax votes, people routinely say NO to new light rail spending....
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Now if it was on another topic that you and most taxpayers wanted but overnment would not dothen I am sure you guys swing the other way....
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Bottomline Clack Co's budget is tight enough woth not enough spent on maintaining infrastructure they currenly have then throwing money at a project they hope will spur development in areas, but usually only spurs crime....
You nailed it. I am not so much a big fan of Prince Charles, but I have to give credit where it is due. He famously said, "The problem with democracy is that it gives people equal power to vote who have unequal power to think."
Reality bites some times, but in upholding Democracy we have to allow for this vote. Our local governments have been taking a whack at our right to decide and have stymied any real public involvement in many issues as of late. I agree that voter turnout will be low but itâs still their right, unfortunately if you donât stress your rights enough or fight for them you'll lose them.
@OliverNicholas In theory I agree with you. In reality far too few voters vote based on 20-second soundbites produced by political campaigns and other biased sources and there is no requirement that information be true or factual. People demanding a vote on everything are abdicating their responsibility to change representative government by changing those that theoretically "represent" them. Our society loves to complain but the vast majority of incumbents are re-elected time and again.
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With democracy comes responsibility. Far too few accept that responsibility for me to be willing to promote a vote on everything.  Â
@I812 I dont feel that they are abdicating their responsibility to change representative goverment, its more mitigating the lack of true representation by those representatives. We've always teetered with republic/democracy, its a fuzy gray area that hopefully we'll educated and reason with ourselves to fruition.Â
Umm, so much money for the electric company, the contractors, the construction unions and the bankers. How can anyone say "no"?
You're going to get your Crime Train regardless if you want it or not!!! The libutards know what's best for everyone, everywhere. I'm so happy I don't have to pay Tri-Met Self Employment Taxes. I think I'm going out to dinner tonight and have steak and lobster I'm so happy about it.
 @Billy Batts Smug airhead
@Billy Batts "Libutards" what in the hell does that mean? Is it your team vs their team? Who are the Libutards? Im guessing some of them are your neighbors and coworkers who wouldnt stoop to calling their fellow AMERICANS libutards or retardlicans or w/e stupid twist you want to put on it. Please grow up and realize we are all one people, enough of the divisions - there are real problems we need to address without the semantics.
@OliverNicholas He should have just said liberals....just like sammy and the boys who like to push their utopia myth of mass transit and bicycles....yet while they spend the money on the uses of the few they neglect hundreds of miles of seriously dilapitaded roads for cars which is the majority.....
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Liberals continually push projects that a majority of voters do not want.....that is the real crux of this vote....
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THEY DONT WANT US TO VOTE, BECAUSE THEY KNOW WE DONT WANT THESE THINGS.
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Ocourse you could say dont vote them in but in many areas around Portland you get 2 choices...A and A....there is no B. Mainly due to other issues. So you vote in democratic candidates and they consistently vote for this type of government waste instead of fixing existing infrastructure....
@OliverNicholas I appreciate your comments but I'm sorry to say rational, logical reasoning does not usually fare well in this forum. And you are extremely unlikely to get a well reasoned intellectual response to your posts; even if you deserve one from those calling names and choosing sides.
The liberals dont want the people to have a vote or a voice over their lives.; Â The People of Milwaukie dont want the crime train in their city....it is not needed or wanted.
It is not the liberals who are trying, in state after state, to suppress voting and gerrymander the districts. It is the liberals who are trying to get EVERYONE to vote, not just those who agree. I care how you vote, but I care more that you do, in fact, vote.
 @MechanicSuppressing the votes of those not legally allowed to vote sounds like a good idea to me. For the handful of citizens not equipped with appropriate ID, they can get it if they care enough to put in the effort.
 @sortbait I think it is needed. PDX needs to go back to the days when streetcars zoomed all over every neighborhood. People will use it and that will cut down on the overuse of cars.Â
Keep believing that. I will not be waiting hours for a bus or streetcar that may or may not ever come, while keeping an eye on the fools nodding off waiting with me, or gathering enough courage to ask me for a handout or beating. You go for it, not me; I'll stay in my car going where I want to go when I want to go! Period!
The liberals or the authorities? I would bet that any conservative authority would abuse their authority just the same. Try the word politicians instead, the people are not the enemy only forceful, civil right neglecting goverments are.
@OliverNicholas Mass transit is not an effective use for most people period...
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1) most people do not work and live off of a line. Requiring several transfers of transit stations to multiple types of transit....cars are easier to use...My time i valuable and if I took mass transit it would take me 90mins to get to work instead of 30 minutes in a car...more to get home....
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2) I cannot use mass transit to go to the store because it is impossible to carry all the grocery bags. We dont shop day to day like urban users downtown do. We shop once every 2 weeks. Fills the car, cannot carry that on the bus.
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3) We do not use it to go to the airport. No place to place you luggage, and would take 2 hours to get there from wilsonville. Drive to park-n-ride Commuter rail to beaverton transit (on weekdays only) then switch to lightrail...then perhaps have to switch downtown to thegresham line if not already on the train to Gateway TC. Then swith to the red line. Altogther 5-6 commuter rail stops. About 15 lightrail stops. About 2-3 minutes per stop and most time they train never reaches 35 mph between stops...I can drive there in 35-40min. The cost with parking in the long-term parking for a few days worth the hours of savings....