More than 2,000 attend Wash. coal terminal hearing
SEATTLE (AP) — More than 2,000 opponents and supporters of a plan to ship coal through a northwest Washington terminal turned out Thursday for a final public meeting on the controversial proposal.
Six other public meetings have been conducted around the state concerning a possible coal export terminal near Ferndale. The hearings are designed to help government agencies determine the scope of a planned environmental impact statement.
Many business and labor groups support the plan, saying it will mean jobs and commerce.
Among the worries are coal's contribution to global warming and the potential impact to Puget Sound's ecosystem.
Opponents who testified ranged from a Seattle schoolgirl concerned about the environment to a southeast Montana ranch manager worried about how mining the coal in his state will affect the groundwater he relies on.
"Children like me have things taken away by global warming," said Rachel Howell, 12. She listed salmon, oysters and skiing as joys in her life that could be threatened.
"More coal mining where I live to meet the Asian market will impact my livelihood in many ways, but particularly groundwater," said Brad Sauer, who manages a 123-year-old Montana ranch. He said that for water, his ranch relies on a shallow aquifer that is threatened by huge, unreclaimed open-pit coal mines.
The $600 million Gateway Pacific Project proposed by SSA Marine of Seattle at Cherry Point is the largest of five proposed terminals in Washington and Oregon. The terminals would ship coal from Montana and Wyoming to power plants in Asia. The terminal could handle up to 54 million bulk tons a year. It could handle other bulk cargo, such as grain.
China will find coal even if the United States won't deliver it, said Herb Krohn from the United Transportation Union. "All we would do is force (China) to buy dirtier, more-polluting coal," he said.
The Seattle hearing was moved to the state convention center because it can accommodate 3,500 people. About 650 people attended a Wednesday night hearing in Vancouver, and hundreds more attended recent meetings in Spokane, Ferndale, Bellingham, Mount Vernon and Friday Harbor.
Coal export opponents staged an outdoor protest earlier Thursday at a park near the convention center.
Coal port supporters also gathered before the hearing. Labor unions representing construction trades say coal shipments will require expanded port facilities, which will boost jobs in the region.
King County Executive Dow Constantine spoke to opponents, saying he was against shipping up to 18 trainloads of coal through Seattle, which he called the county's "jewel." Ferndale Mayor Gary Jensen spoke to supporters, saying the coal shipments can be done in an environmentally sound manner.
The prospect of long coal trains rolling through Seattle's downtown waterfront is not welcomed by Mayor Mike McGinn. He announced Wednesday the city would commission a study on the local traffic and safety impacts of an estimated 18 coal trains a day.
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Washington State Department of Ecology and the Whatcom County Council scheduled the hearings to identify issues to be studied. The public comment period remains open through Jan. 21, and then an environmental impact statement will be drafted.
Critics want a broad study of economic and environmental impacts well beyond Cherry Point.
"Expanding the scope of environmental review would have a devastating impact," Brandon Housekeeper of the Association of Washington Business told the pre-hearing gathering of coal port supporters.
With the threat of that kind of review, he said, the state might as well post signs at the border that read: "Don't do business here. Washington is not open for business."
Other coal export ports are under consideration at Longview and in Oregon at Coos Bay, Port of Morrow and St. Helens. A proposal at Grays Harbor, Wash., has been shelved.
"Have you experienced what coal dust can do to property? I have," Vancouver resident Toni Montgomery, who lives near a railroad track, said at the Wednesday meeting. She said pollution and train congestion are significant concerns.
"It's a dangerous mess," Montgomery said.
Locomotive engineer John Lawson of Kennewick spoke in favor of coal exports in Vancouver.
"My biggest concern has been the impact on the economy," he said, adding such projects "provide a tax boost to our state" to pay for services.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press.
Six other public meetings have been conducted around the state concerning a possible coal export terminal near Ferndale. The hearings are designed to help government agencies determine the scope of a planned environmental impact statement.
Many business and labor groups support the plan, saying it will mean jobs and commerce.
Among the worries are coal's contribution to global warming and the potential impact to Puget Sound's ecosystem.
Opponents who testified ranged from a Seattle schoolgirl concerned about the environment to a southeast Montana ranch manager worried about how mining the coal in his state will affect the groundwater he relies on.
"Children like me have things taken away by global warming," said Rachel Howell, 12. She listed salmon, oysters and skiing as joys in her life that could be threatened.
"More coal mining where I live to meet the Asian market will impact my livelihood in many ways, but particularly groundwater," said Brad Sauer, who manages a 123-year-old Montana ranch. He said that for water, his ranch relies on a shallow aquifer that is threatened by huge, unreclaimed open-pit coal mines.
The $600 million Gateway Pacific Project proposed by SSA Marine of Seattle at Cherry Point is the largest of five proposed terminals in Washington and Oregon. The terminals would ship coal from Montana and Wyoming to power plants in Asia. The terminal could handle up to 54 million bulk tons a year. It could handle other bulk cargo, such as grain.
China will find coal even if the United States won't deliver it, said Herb Krohn from the United Transportation Union. "All we would do is force (China) to buy dirtier, more-polluting coal," he said.
The Seattle hearing was moved to the state convention center because it can accommodate 3,500 people. About 650 people attended a Wednesday night hearing in Vancouver, and hundreds more attended recent meetings in Spokane, Ferndale, Bellingham, Mount Vernon and Friday Harbor.
Coal export opponents staged an outdoor protest earlier Thursday at a park near the convention center.
Coal port supporters also gathered before the hearing. Labor unions representing construction trades say coal shipments will require expanded port facilities, which will boost jobs in the region.
King County Executive Dow Constantine spoke to opponents, saying he was against shipping up to 18 trainloads of coal through Seattle, which he called the county's "jewel." Ferndale Mayor Gary Jensen spoke to supporters, saying the coal shipments can be done in an environmentally sound manner.
The prospect of long coal trains rolling through Seattle's downtown waterfront is not welcomed by Mayor Mike McGinn. He announced Wednesday the city would commission a study on the local traffic and safety impacts of an estimated 18 coal trains a day.
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Washington State Department of Ecology and the Whatcom County Council scheduled the hearings to identify issues to be studied. The public comment period remains open through Jan. 21, and then an environmental impact statement will be drafted.
Critics want a broad study of economic and environmental impacts well beyond Cherry Point.
"Expanding the scope of environmental review would have a devastating impact," Brandon Housekeeper of the Association of Washington Business told the pre-hearing gathering of coal port supporters.
With the threat of that kind of review, he said, the state might as well post signs at the border that read: "Don't do business here. Washington is not open for business."
Other coal export ports are under consideration at Longview and in Oregon at Coos Bay, Port of Morrow and St. Helens. A proposal at Grays Harbor, Wash., has been shelved.
"Have you experienced what coal dust can do to property? I have," Vancouver resident Toni Montgomery, who lives near a railroad track, said at the Wednesday meeting. She said pollution and train congestion are significant concerns.
"It's a dangerous mess," Montgomery said.
Locomotive engineer John Lawson of Kennewick spoke in favor of coal exports in Vancouver.
"My biggest concern has been the impact on the economy," he said, adding such projects "provide a tax boost to our state" to pay for services.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press.
It's time for these anti-coal dumbos to move into a hole in the ground or into a cave. Â They don't want to live in the modern world so by living in a cave they will be right at home. Â We can always hope they don't need food, medicine, or clothing, because they are against the industries that produce them. Â It would seem these people had some degree of common sense, but they continue to prove that they are mental midgets and nothing more.
"""""Children like me have things taken away by global warming," said Rachel Howell, 12. She listed salmon, oysters and skiing as joys in her life that could be threatened."""""
She and her parents drink a lot of Koolaid.....
I had a chance to speak with an actual Professor while we agreed and disagreed on a few things we wound up agreeing with one thing, we need to change yet humans hate change as we are a creature of habit, What is preventing us from going to alternative fuels? Simple, We humans don't have the guts to make the change . Sue we will get vehicles and the like, but we will not do anything to attempt to become self sufficient.
We also agreed on the climate change, we both agreed that yes the planet is changing fast and that it is to late.
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BUT, it is in our best interest to start with alternative technologies because, with Changing climates will come a new need for better built things that can take wetter climates like Cell phones , potable computers that can take harsher extremes..basically we will getting new technologies rather we want to or not.
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computers and the like.
 @lee986321 "better built things that can take wetter climates like Cell phones , potable computers that can take harsher extremes.."
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Cell phones work just great here at the coast. Potable computers? I don't plan on drinking my computer.
 Are you sure you were talking to a Professor? I can imagine that poor man trying to explain the subject to you. I have a mental picture of someone trying to explain Descriptive geometry to a 3 year old.
Nuclear reactors or Coal to pollute the air?
 @lee986321 What is it you're trying to say?
Coal is good.....how do I buy some?
China has an air pollution problem. They know it, but they need electricity to keep their economy growing. They have instituted first world air pollution regulations and that is why they want to buy US low suffer coal. They must feel that it is the best compromise at this time. I'm sure if they can't find enough low sulfur coal on the world market they will burn the dirtier higher polluting variety to keep their economy going.
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Selling our coal helps with our trade deficit and puts people to work here.
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(Listen 0bama. Coal is good for the economy...)
"NO COAL, NO COAL", screamed the excited crowd of protesters shortly after parking their gas guzzling SUVs.
"Children like me have things taken away by global warming," said Rachel Howell, 12. She listed salmon, oysters and skiing as joys in her life that could be threatened."
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Just like training a parrot to say things. Cute but does not mean she understand it. Her parents put her up to this and are using her like a puppet.
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The people need to carry signs that say "No Jobs, Bankrupt America".
 @RalphCramden I call BS! When did you ever meet a 12 year old girl that liked Oysters?
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Here kid.... I want you to read this to the first reporter you see... never mind what it sys... just read it.
 @Razor1Â
Exactly.
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The kid is nothing more than a prop that the media fell for. That says volumes about the intelligence of the media.
@RalphCramden No people need to quit putting bandaides on a global problem and come up with a real solution. But that will never happen while there is riches to be made. its the -'F' the planet, its all about me attitude that needs to stop. but go ahead and lie to yourself and put your head back up your ass. put the problem on someone else. because in the end you will be dead when real problems arise
 @LostSoul Â
The real problem is that government is running out of money. Once the economy collapses then people will do whatever they can to survive. They will care about food, water, shelter and safety.
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Environmental issues are only for the rich. Poor people just care about surviving. In that case it is all about "me".
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Your head is up your %*^*^ when you can't see that the subsidies for alternative energy is draining the government bank. We can only borrow money for a little while longer and then it will all come to an end.
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I am old and will get to see all of my retirement more than likely. You are young and will get to see the downfall of the US with blood in the streets. You will get to see what it's like to worry about your next meal. But you seem to be more concerned about global warming that has not been proven to be human caused despite what your handlers tell you.
 @LostSoul Â
It will. Just give it time.
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Once it does collapse you will see more self centered people that you ever have. They will care about 4 things. Food, water, shelter, and safety.
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They will rape the land and burn everything in site for warmth and shoot anything they can for food.
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Environmentalism is only for the rich and the lazy.
 @LostSoul  @RalphCramden LOST... You are referring to us? the people that pay for you to live in mommys house? I wish I could stick around and watch all of you worthless weasels starve to death.. better yet to see you all start to devour each other.
Stop being delusional, LS. Just like this dingbat says, "Have you experienced what coal dust can do to property? I have," Vancouver resident Toni Montgomery, who lives near a railroad track, said at the Wednesday meeting. She said pollution and train congestion are significant concerns. ...Seriously, she moved next to a train track and then complains about it. You call others self-centered, but it's your kind of people that demand every whine of theirs be met with a hug and submission. Go join the Amish if you want the life that you claim to be after. No? Oh, you just want the world to conform to your own needs? Surprise, surprise. Use heavy metals, plastics and whatever else to create your latest iPhone, but heaven forbid somebody needs coal.
@RalphCramden Hopefully the govt does collapse, so we can finally get rid of your generation of self centered people and start over.
If a 12 year gets it, why cant the rest of you. Coal is not the answer...
 @LostSoul What's your answer Einstein? We haven't heard your big plan yet. What is it that you are going to do? Come on... you got our attention now spit it out kid.
@Razor1 Dosent matter what my "plan" is. With attitudes like yours this planet is as good as dead. THe only good thing that will come of it is that the human race will be extinct
 @LostSoul Funny how "Lost Soul" just kind of dropped out of this argument. I guess she just can't stand the heat...
 @LostSoul  @Razor1 Box of rocks eh? Everyone in that picture has at least a Masters degree, and that young man that looks like a baby is one of the finest Combat Surgeons you'll ever see. That young man has saved more lives in one week that most ER Doctors do in a life time. We are also members of the National Guard. We have all deployed at least twice, we all have our CAB. Neanderthals? I think not.
 You have exhausted your argument so you turn into a character assassin? My goodness aren't you the intellectual?
 What have you done for society? What will be put on your headstone when you get planted? I have a suggestion... " I died for ignorance".
 By the way as long as we're on the subject of avatars... What is that a picture of on yours?
That's funny, I was just thinking the same thing.  Follow Al Gore much? Wouldn't you think it odd that so many of the "noncomformists" tend to have the same response? Not to mention, they claim others "just do as their told" and then expect everybody to just do as they say. You're just a different box, but the rocks are still the same.
 @LostSoul  @Razor1Â
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Ah yes. Nothing intelligent to say so you revert to insults and demeaning comments.
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You have clearly lost the argument.
 @LostSoul  @Razor1Â
If the death of the human race is a good thing then why are you concerned about the planet? Sounds like you have cognitive dissonance. Not uncommon for those who have strong environmental issues.
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How much alternative energy do you produce?
@Razor1 by the look of your picture you are part of the mindless scum brigade of no-neck neanderthals that still think their sh$t dont stink. It's ok, I understand. Dont think. Just do what your told. Nothing like talking to a box of rocks to make me laugh.
 @LostSoul  @Razor1 Just as I thought. No plan... just a mindless parrot.
 Your argument has been exhausted kid. You have nothing to back up your claims, and are just grasping for attention.
 And no I don't think I'll be dead. I see the end coming very rapidly.  I see you deadbeats coming to the end of your rope, and will laugh at your self destruction.
 Who do you think is going to feed you when you start to go hungry? Who do you think is going to give you shelter, clothing, blankets? Not us... we have our own people to worry about. You cave dwellers can all turn to cannibalism.
You should start a religion, they like to use "the end of the world" to sucker people, too.
 @LostSoulÂ
Are you kidding me!!!! She doesn't get it. She was programmed by her parents and if you ask her detailed questions she will run out of her programmed answers. She has no idea what she is talking about.
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What is ever more scary is that you actually believe she knows what she is talking about. That speaks volumes about your intelligence.
@RalphCramden So your still lost in the stone ages where there is no such thing as global warming and oil and coal dont pollute. Pull your head out of your ass. Maybe YOU dont want a planet for future generations, but Id like to know my kids will have a decent place to live. But none of this will happen until the ignorance is gone
 @LostSoul  @Razor1Â
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LostSoul, you really are a lost soul.
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How much alternative do you produce?
@Razor1 you'll see- no wait, you wont, you will be already dead. And in there lies the problem
 @LostSoul  @RalphCramden Lost... you do realize you're writing your stinging rebukes on a machine that was built using electricity made from coal? How much Coal burning energy was used to make that machine that you drive, or that bicycle you ride in the middle of the road? How much coal burning was put into that $5.00 Latte you have in your hand?
 You spout all of the rhetoric, but don't stop to think.    Hypocrite.
 @RalphCramden RalphCramden... Bravo Maestro!
 @LostSoul  @RalphCramden Proof it.
Talk about misguided.. You sit there and preach to others, but then you end it with "the car I drive". You can't get much more socio-elitist than that. Good for you, you paid for more waste, instead of upgrading and reusing something that was already out there. Just another Portlander that thinks their poo don't stink. Go make a push for biodiesel so that you can starve third-world folks like you did last time. Build a "green" dam, then turn it to rubble when you figure out it had the opposite affect, burn an SUV to protest, blah blah blah. Jump first and think later, as it's always been done.
Those are choices you made for yourself and thatâs fine, but don't judge others and look down at them because they don't share your same feelings. You're no better than anyone else, the perception of what you think is right may not conform to whatâs' right for others. Quit attacking others. I have always had the feeling that people who drove Toyota Prius's felt they were better than the rest of us who didn't, because they were doing more for the planet. You confirmed it today.
@RalphCramden Funny you are, but oh so misguided. Wake up its the 21st century. the 1950's are over with. I have spent my entire life helping conserve my planet. From the food I eat and where it comes from , to the way I live my daily life, to the career I have chosen, to the car I drive, every aspect of my life.
<Insert silence here.>
 @LostSoul Â
I produce 15,000 watts of energy per day with my solar electric, solar hot water and wind generation.
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How much do you produce? Or are you just a talker?
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As for global warming, that has been going on for millions of years except when there is global cooling which has been going on for millions of years.
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At least my head deals with reality while yours is impressed with a 12 year old girl who is more than likely your intellectual superior.
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Your turn.
@LostSoul Because she doesn't get it. She's just being used by her parents to voice their opinion. What is the answer?