Parents of missing mom Susan Powell push new custody law
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - The parents of a missing Utah mother pushed Friday for changes in Washington state laws on custody cases, saying proposed legislation might have prevented the killing of their two grandchildren.
Chuck and Judy Cox testified before a state Senate committee considering a bill that would restrict or block visitation rights for someone who is the subject of a murder investigation.
They told lawmakers the legislation could have changed the course of the case involving their missing daughter, Susan Powell, whose husband Josh Powell killed himself and their young kids during a parental visit.
"Most likely, they would have officially named Josh Powell a suspect in order to afford Charlie and Braden more protection," Chuck Cox said, referring to the grandchildren. The grandparents had custody of the two children.
Authorities in Utah had long been eyeing Josh Powell in the 2009 disappearance of his wife. Powell killed his children last year when they arrived at his home for a supervised visit.
Utah investigators never publicly declared Powell a suspect but treated him as one privately.
The proposed law in Washington would allow people involved in custody cases to demand information from law enforcement that might be relevant to decisions on visitation matters.
Republican Sen. Pam Roach, who is sponsoring the proposed bill, said it provides more tools for judges to restrict visitation. She noted that some visitations can be limited to just once a month in a public place - not in a private home.
"We need more parameters around our current law to give us a wake-up call and bring us back to common sense," Roach said.
Rick Bartholomew, who testified on behalf of the Washington State Bar Association, said he supported the idea behind the bill but not the implementation.
He expressed concern that some investigations are left open for long periods of time and ultimately lead to the exoneration of parents, which could mean parents would be separated from their kids for extended periods of time, even if they did nothing wrong.
Bartholomew also said the rule requiring law enforcement to turn over details of an investigation during a custody case could harm the murder probe.
The suspect in a murder case could use the tool in order to get a glimpse inside that investigation, he said.
A committee of senators hearing the bill did not take a vote on the measure Friday.
Chuck and Judy Cox testified before a state Senate committee considering a bill that would restrict or block visitation rights for someone who is the subject of a murder investigation.
They told lawmakers the legislation could have changed the course of the case involving their missing daughter, Susan Powell, whose husband Josh Powell killed himself and their young kids during a parental visit.
"Most likely, they would have officially named Josh Powell a suspect in order to afford Charlie and Braden more protection," Chuck Cox said, referring to the grandchildren. The grandparents had custody of the two children.
Authorities in Utah had long been eyeing Josh Powell in the 2009 disappearance of his wife. Powell killed his children last year when they arrived at his home for a supervised visit.
Utah investigators never publicly declared Powell a suspect but treated him as one privately.
The proposed law in Washington would allow people involved in custody cases to demand information from law enforcement that might be relevant to decisions on visitation matters.
Republican Sen. Pam Roach, who is sponsoring the proposed bill, said it provides more tools for judges to restrict visitation. She noted that some visitations can be limited to just once a month in a public place - not in a private home.
"We need more parameters around our current law to give us a wake-up call and bring us back to common sense," Roach said.
Rick Bartholomew, who testified on behalf of the Washington State Bar Association, said he supported the idea behind the bill but not the implementation.
He expressed concern that some investigations are left open for long periods of time and ultimately lead to the exoneration of parents, which could mean parents would be separated from their kids for extended periods of time, even if they did nothing wrong.
Bartholomew also said the rule requiring law enforcement to turn over details of an investigation during a custody case could harm the murder probe.
The suspect in a murder case could use the tool in order to get a glimpse inside that investigation, he said.
A committee of senators hearing the bill did not take a vote on the measure Friday.
Not nearly as bad, but didn't we just have some parents lose their adopted children for no reason specified.  I think we all know it was because the adoptive parents were black and the kids were white.  When you  give these departments basically unlimited power without them even having to justify their actions, something needs to be done.  Of course, getting the government to do something positive is like pulling teeth.
DCFS needs a total overhaul. Firing half of their current bitter fat and ugly workers! I just watched a case where a mom who tested positive for meth was given her kids back, no more case against her, and yet another case where a dad who tested positive for meth, has been fired from his job, had drugs in the home found by the kids, retained his kids because kids mom has a mental health diagnosis and holds full time employment and always has. All because the case worker was butt hurt because she cant intimidate mom. So she made it her goal to always side with dad and because all the judges have their heads securely up the DCFS's backsides, it worked out perfectly. When they die or get hurt I am sure they will deny any responsibility. When dad gets arrested and put in jail, maybe then it will be a wake up call. His home away from home as he has spent more than half his life there and the DCFS made that fact disappear too! Something very messed up about that!
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It would law would help Kaine to have control over any possible visits Terry might get to see their daughter. Â Of course they would have to finally identify her as a suspect.
Passing more laws will not help this situation. Yielding yet even more control of our children over to the state is not an answer.  Passing more and more laws has become a self serving-grand standing trend.  The masses seem have a desire to vote away any and all freedoms we have in our country.Â
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With all due respect and compassion. Tragedies are a part of life. The term "might have prevented" in this case is a key phrase. Stop giving control of our lives to the government.
What a good Mom & Dad/Grandma & Grandpa. Â Looking out for all kiddos. Â Keep up the good work!
Everyone seems to want legislation that they believe may have helped their specific situation.  It is horrible what happened to Susan and their grandchildren, but lots of folks who are initially suspects are later cleared, and I see much more potential for honest parents to be denied visitation than possibly saving one from an exceptional situation. However horrible the exception might be, it's still the exception and we shouldn't make laws based on that.
 @Ifishsum well said!
What is the deal with these parents of missing or dead children that seem to think they deserve to have some BS law pushed through? More laws are not going to keep crap like this from happening.
The Powell case is an incredibly tragic and emotional one, which means it is not a great example to build a law around. What happened to the Powell children represents an incredibly rare set of circumstances, unlike the much more common events of a person being wrongfully accused of a crime, investigations stretching back years, and perpetrators manipulating official entities into releasing information on their case. My heart broke a little when these two kids died, and I feel awful for the grandparents, but this is a terrible idea.
 @pdx_echo disagree
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I have to agree.
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The "fault" starts with boys excited to see their father run into a house prepared for them to die. This is not the typical situation.
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 @Repoman  @pdx_echo What???? You say the "fault" starts with the boys excited to see their father????  Now it is the kid's fault????
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Whoa now "fault" is in quotes. I mean it sarcastically.
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I don't know the father and boys' relationship, but who would expect two boys prevented from seeing their father on a day-to-day basis not be excited and run to their father?
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Thus the boys were being boys, the supervisor did their best and the by the time 911 was called it was too late.
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But none of this is typical or even rare. Indeed this in is a one-time event from everything I have read.
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Thus the only fault is no fault at all. Without a real person to blame the grandparents want to craft law to stop what other than once, has never happened.
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Men and women get vindictive in custody dissputes. I was treated like a Yo-Yo between my vindictive parents starting from when I was a toddler and it lasted until I had enough of it in my late teens. In my forties, I'm still pissed that they acted so childishly. Â
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While this idea may have some merit, it also depends on people telling the truth, which we all know is a misnomer.
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If they are guilty, prove it...
Innocent until proven guilty.
 @Ken Beck Very true, however we are talking about common sense. Would you allow a person charged with robbery to house sit for you?
 @Owt_Raged Use some common sense. I wouldn't let anybody house sit for me I didn't know, Robbery or not.  Lose the emotion.  Murder trials could go on for years and what if he is exonerated? Then what, another kid who didn't know his Dad.Â
@Ken Beck @Owt_Raged indeed, I'll take an old friend accused of burglary over a stranger with a clean record when it comes to housesitting.
@Owt_Raged Common sense is also a misnomer. ANYONE can falsley accuse. It's one of the biggest weapons of both of our major political parties.
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So no, accusations mean little until proven in a court of law.
 @Bob McMasterson  @Owt_Raged ~  False accusations are also one of the main problems in divorce / custody matters...both of which seem to bring out the very worst characteristics in people... Â
 @Bob McMasterson  @Owt_Raged Your thinking of Burglary.  If they're house sitting I wouldn't be there to rob. Robbery is a person to person crime.
You would think that we wouldn't NEED a law to force something that should be common sense.
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If someone is charged with theft or robbery, would you ask them to watch your valuables?
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How did our government officials and employees get so stupid?
@Owt_Raged you might have to explain what you mean by stupid, considering this was a supervised visit that simply went wrong. It's not stupidity, it is human error which cannot be accounted for in law. I mean...did you *see* this guy on the news or Dateline? While I thought it was pretty clear he murdered his wife, never in a million years did I believe he was a danger to his children. It's not like this social worker was just slacking off outside either, the kids ran to Dad and were instantly trapped. She immediately called her supervisor and notified police when Josh Powell locked himself in his home. It was mere moments before the situation spun out of control. If anyone acted stupidly it was that first dispatch operator, but even that human error probably did not actually affect the outcome (if there's any place in the chain that needs strengthening, it's right here...though it does not seem that the dispatcher slowed down police arrival at all). Those kids were dead as soon as they walked in the door. He came at both of them with an axe and then burned everything. It was over in six minutes. Now, how is the fact that this tragedy took place an indication of the government's stupidity?
 @Owt_Raged ~  "If someone is charged with theft or robbery, would you ask them to watch your valuables?"  (from your post)
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No, I sure wouldn't... but therein lies the problem in the Powell case... Josh Powell was never charged with anything... he wasn't even named, at least publicly, as a suspect in his wife's disappearance.
I can certainly see amending the custody provisions for situations in which the person has actually been "charged" with a crime... but what do you do when the person you're concerned about not only hasn't been charged, but is not even "officially" considered a suspect..?
I'm not saying we should do nothing, because I think it is an issue that definitely needs to be addressed... but it's kind of a complicated issue... and we need to be very careful...
 @margay1 I have to agree that we need to be careful. I have often wondered, why the state removed the children from his care? So much was done outside of the eyes of the public, which I really have no problem with. But at the same time, don't let the state play dumb about all of this.
If he was a suitable parent, why was the state involved? And if he wasn't suitable, why did he have contact with the kids?
 @pdx_echo  @Owt_Raged  @margay1 ~  pdx_echo, you are very correct... I had forgotten about the child-porn issue at his dad's house, where he and the 2 boys were staying...  I also recall that final visit; the DHS worker said that the 2 boys went into the house, then Powell closed and locked the door so she couldn't follow them in... Â
As horrible as that was, I'm still not sure what, if anything, could have been done to insure the safety of the boys... the only thing left would have been to deny any visitation whatsoever (supervised or not)... and if their psych testing wasn't complete, that move would probably have been seen as premature... Â
The other problem, at least for we-the-public, is what Owt-raged noted; that is, that much of what is going on with these types of cases is done "behind the scenes"... Â Not sure if that's right, wrong, or indifferent... but it is what it is...Â
@Owt_Raged @margay1 to be clear, he and his children were staying in that house...otherwise he probably wouldn't have lost custody at all.
@Owt_Raged @margay1 He lost custody of his children when child pornography turned up at his dad's house. He had to undergo psychosexual testing to regain custody and it doesn't sound like it was going very well. The visit was not unsupervised, and was a rare occurence. The loss of custody had nothing to do with Susan's murder.
That was a horrible thing that happened to those children, and I'm absolutely sure he killed Susan as well, and his Dad was covering for him.Â