Should illegal immigrants be allowed to pay in-state college tuition?

SALEM, Ore. (AP) — Advocates are touting the economic and educational benefits of allowing young illegal immigrants to pay in-state college tuition, trying out a new pitch in their effort to lower educational costs for high school graduates brought illegally to the U.S. by their parents.
In a news conference Monday, leaders from several of Oregon's largest business groups said the tuition measure would help ensure an educated workforce.
"We all know that access to post-secondary education leads to significantly higher wages for individuals and increased economic success for businesses," said Greg Miller, a senior official from Weyerhaeuser Company and a board member at Associated Oregon Industries. "By providing this opportunity for more students, we're strengthening the state's economy."
The issue has stoked strong emotions on both sides for years. Critics say the state shouldn't subsidize tuition for people who won't be able to legally work in the United States when they're done with school. Critics also contend that providing benefits for illegal immigrants creates incentives for people to cross the border illegally, and offers illegal immigrants a financial benefit that isn't available to American citizens living in other states.
"Somewhere along the line somebody's got to start thinking straight on this issue," said Jim Ludwick, a vocal opponent of illegal immigration. "If we give a $20,000 discount to a student who can't use their degree because they can't work here, how much sense does that make?"
Lawmakers will hear from the public in committee hearing on Wednesday. The measure seems primed for success this year with support from Gov. John Kitzhaber and legislators from both parties. Two years ago, a similar measure passed the Senate but did not get a vote in the House amid opposition from Republican leaders.
Twelve other states allow resident tuition for illegal immigrants, according to the National Immigration Law Center. Colorado lawmakers are considering similar legislation that has already passed a Senate committee.
The economic arguments are not new, but proponents are putting a sharper focus on them after failed efforts in years past.
"Without tuition equity, many Oregon students will not be able to get above a high school education and will not have access to an associate or bachelor's degree and the increased earning potential that comes with both," said Andrew Colas, president and chief operating officer of Colas Construction of Portland and a board member at the Oregon Business Association.
Representatives of the Portland Business Alliance and the Oregon Association of Nurseries also backed the measure, House Bill 2787. Twelve lawmakers have signed on as co-sponsors of the measure, including three Republicans.
The measure would allow illegal immigrants to pay resident tuition at Oregon's seven public universities if they've graduated from an Oregon high school and lived in the United States for at least five years, at least three of them in Oregon. They'd have to sign an affidavit swearing they'll apply to legalize their immigration status as soon as they're legally eligible.
Illegal immigrants can't legally work in the United States, but proponents say President Barack Obama's push for a federal immigration overhaul could create a pathway to citizenship for many. They say children have no control over the decision to immigrate without legal documents.
Resident tuition and fees for 15 credits at the University of Oregon, the average course load, are currently $9,310 per year. For nonresidents, it's $28,650.
PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST AN AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS!
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 @Bill Nelson I rather support an upwardly illegal than the throngs of downwardly mobile meth family, honey boo boos, and project dwellers.  Who do you think will contribute to the human race?
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 @Landpirate Lets do it. And when they show up first day for orientation. SURPRISE, ICE deports them.
@TreeWizard @Landpirate Now That is an idea that I like. :))
Kitzhaber...Read our lips (you know, the MAJORITY of the people and voters in this State EXCLUDING illegals and those with 'special' interests in them)...
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reality: I break into a home - which is illegal - I will very likely be shot. If nothing else, the homeowner will call the authorities and I will be forcibly removed and taken somewhere unpleasant.
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Liberal think: If I break into a home (still illegal) I should be granted amnesty and allowed to stay, raid the fridge at will AND expect the homeowner to help with my education - whether or not I choose to help out? By the way, that spare bedroom is a little cramped and the bed is too soft. I deserve a decent bed and quarters for my troubles.
To much common sense here.
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I'll bet Kitz would be screaming if someone broke into his home and decided to stay, this country is our home and the illegal parasites should be removed in any manner necessary .
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Personally I have not once speck of feelings for anyone that is here illegally. Enter/remain LEGALLY then welcome otherwise you should be dealt with in the most severe manner to include the use of a body bag.Â
ANYONE who enters/remains in the US illegally is a criminal and must be treated as such. The laws should be changed so that the first offence means deportation immediately back to their home country, no excuses you are gone.
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Second offence is a capitol offence that carries a mandatory death sentence.
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Ya think the illegals will stop coming here.
ONLY if the federal government pays the state back for every dollar spent on illegals.
Well, Congratulations, Oregonian. I'm fairly positive you've made a Republican out of my ex-Democrat dad. 199,998...
O HELL NO
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"illegal immigrants"Â Â What part of illegal don't you under stand!!!!
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These illegal immigrants are criminals Why should we the tax paper subsidize more crime..
@joker Didn't you know that we are ALL expected to be, "Tolerant" of illegals that invite themselves into our homes?
I say, give them all a card and make them pay three times as much for everything they buy.
Operation Wetback.  1954 Repatriation Operation. 100,000's arrested and millions fled.
Arrest all illegal aliens and deport them.
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/pqo01
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ABSOLUTELY NOT! Illegal immigrants shouldn't have any benefits whatsoever. What is wrong with the government? Illegal is illegal. They shouldn't be going to school here anyway. If you're going to allow them to go to school, then you better be charging them out of state tuition. If you're going to charge them in-state tuition, then you better allow the legal immigrants in-state tuition as well. What is the point of having out of state tuition if you are going to allow criminals to bypass it. Why does the government insist on rewarding criminal behavior?
Illegal Aliens should not be allowed to attend college let alone be subsidized by the government. Â How about we focus money on LEGAL citizens first. Â No public funds should be used for anyone in the United States illegally.
How about a new "international" rate? I have one in college and we don't get a break. We make "too much money" for any subsidies.  Because we have worked hard and paid our bills on time - we do qualify for student loans. Student loans that will be paid back. Responsibility is a b*t*h.
Why not. They suck out all the other government services. Might as well just give everything to them so that the government can go bankrupt quicker.
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It amazes me how much the government caters to these criminals.
 @RalphCramden Bear in mind, ralph, that a part of this is Lord Kitzhaber trying to funnel more federal money (in the form of student loans and grants) into the state higher education system that is financially a house of cards.Â
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In essence, he's proposing to allow undocumented immigrants the most tangible form of the "American dream", tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars in debt for a piece of paper that may or may not actually end up getting you a job, let alone one in the field in which you've studied.Â
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In that respect, I can almost support the idea. Why should legal students get all the most american of realities?Â
 @MarkKpicÂ
Most higher institutions don't offer classes in economics. If they did the institution would be a classic example of what NOT to do or the institution would ignore their advice on how to manage money.
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Higher education is really a joke.
I have a son that  tried to go to Monmouth college to go to school and because of the wages I have before taxes health insurance heath saving account and supporting a family of five they said the only help he could get was loans to pay for college that left him 5000.00 short he tried to work in Corvallis to pay for his living expenses now I have two other children that are going to be in the same boat.  My son had to leave college due to finances.  We  now have help people how have no right to the help that should be helping Oregonian children. They have cut the budget for. Why don't they help college children by putting that money to lowering college rates so all children can go to school. Instead of helping people that are not even us citizens and in most cases came hear questionably and because they have been here a while they get help meant for our children that have been here there whole life.
Well said, it is really to bad that people like the village idiot and Kitz do not listen to the will of the legal voter aka taxpayers. It seems as though la raza and the mexican lobby get the ear of those elected
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There is no reason for the taxpayers to in anyway provide for those who have forced themselves upon us.
 @momkuehl369 Gov. Kitzhaber should be listening to stories like yours and do a lot less pandering to the illegal alien lobby.
I guess I've just got cynical in my middle age because I can't help but see this as a means of legally allowing illegal aliens to attend colleges in Oregon. Make it so they can legally pay tuition and before you can blink the taxpayer will be paying their tuition for one reason or another. Don't they have colleges in south & central America these people can attend on their own dime?
 @Ironclad That is the real irony here: THEY DO! (and for the most part, if entry is achieved, the tuition rates are modest or even free).
I thought people went into the military and many lost lives to insure that no one that would cause harm to our country could enter our borders. Not this governor or president. I guess when the enemy gets large enough you throw in with the enemy
Well since the number of illegal immigrants that would apply for college would be four, Ok, let them. As far as this dumb a** governor we have, grind him up and put him in a Burrito. How did this bonehead get elected anyway? I thought he was supposed to represent the citizens of this state. You know, the ones who are here legally and have proper ID.Â
Sounds like a great deal, for illegal aliens. With more incentives like this to increase human and drug trafficking into Oregon that crackhead politician Suzanne Gallagher might be able to sign up 200,000 new voters for the GOP. Kitzhaber doesn't care about Oregon citizens, or Oregon, or that his plan will turn Oregon into a Tijuana slum. Hasn't Kitzhaber already done enough damage to the State? Between giving illegal aliens more benefits and saving the lives of convicted murderers, I don't know of one good thing Kitzhaber has done.Â
No kick the illegals out and send them home. Before that put a microchip in them.
Well! Please explain to my niece why we allow the illegals to pay in-state tuition? My niece is American, she was born in California, and she was required to pay in full.Â
Montezumas revenge- it now goes the other way
Okay, I tried once and got nothing. Can someone who supports such proposals please answer me one simple question. What incentive does an undocumented immigrant have to establish legal residency in the state of OR?
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I'm not interested in some 'anti' rant, and I'm by no means a bigot, I just really want to understand the logic here. I had always thought that the purpose of laws was to discourage illegal acts. Oregon has not only made it illegal to establish residency status on most social programs, we are now encouraging it by offering lower cost college?
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There IS a cost to undocumented immigration. Again, this is not intended as any sort of diatribe against 'them durn mexicans'. It's just a statement of fact. There IS a cost to states, counties and municipalities being residencies for undocumented immigrants. Costs that factor into everything from education to social programs to judicial and healthcare. So, by endorsing programs and legislative actions that appear to not only endorse, but actively encourage undocumented immigrant residency, it stands to reason that someone would expect those costs to rise. When every budget in the state is already stretched to the very limits, do we really have the ability to absorb even more costs?
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I'm afraid I just don't get it. At all. There is a diversion between Lord Kitzhabers ambitions and the welfare of the state as a whole. He appears to have completely suspended any thought of being a representative elected official, or even giving the appearance of tyring to be one, Â this time around and instead is operating on a purely personal ideological agenda. One can only hope that in 2014 people will be able/willing to see the emperor is stark naked, and devoid of any theories that he is charged with persuing the good of the many.Â
 @MarkKpic I think you need to take the time span of the problem into account.
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If illegal immigrants had started showing up last year, then, no, we wouldn't offer them in-state tuition. But this problem has gone on for decades, decades in which illegals came because we gave them jobs. We the people who hired them or enjoyed the low prices they made possible are also responsible for this mess.
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Over those years, some smuggled their children in. That's a crime, but the child is not the criminal. So the question becomes what do we do now? I know many people here would merrily round them up and ship them abroad - heck some have even advocated execution for a second offence of crossing the border. In a situation in which there is no good, clean answer, you have to go with a bad one. Mass deportation would be costly, inhumane, and, in the end, a failure.
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I don't see the value of keeping people who are here poor - doing so feeds crime and maintains a mass of low-wage no-rights workers that legal workers have to compete against. Granting in-state tuition to children brought here illegally begins the process of moving people out of the shadows and draining that low-wage pool of workers. It should be coupled at the national level with border enforcement and a crack down on employers who hire illegals.Â
 @Max Quinn  @MarkKpicÂ
'Â Mass deportation would be costly, inhumane, and, in the end, a failure.'
Not many actually espouse that approach. Â Most in the pro-enforcement camp, believe you pull away the incentives and let them go back at their own pace, over time (there have been studies that document that this does actually take place). Â To posit the range of policy options as: on one extreme, 'full deportation' vs. 'granting full legal status' is really a false choice. Â Attrition through enforcement works. Â Where disincentives are applied, illegal aliens pick up and move on -- after all, that's exactly how they got here, and they can get home the same way.
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'Granting in-state tuition to children brought here illegally begins the process of moving people out of the shadows and draining that low-wage pool of workers'
By creating a new cohort of fully work authorized, better educated workers to begin to displace middle class skilled American workers???
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'Over those years, some smuggled their children in. That's a crime, but the child is not the criminal. So the question becomes what do we do now?'
But, American kids are regularly impacted by the bad/irresponsible decision of their parents. Â It's always been a tragic facet of human existence and probably always will be. Â Here is an example: an American father commits a serious crime, is tried and ordered to serve prison time. Â Do we let the father have a lighter sentence because a child no longer has the dad around? Â Historically, many parents smoked in their house and never gave much of a thought to how/whether the secondary affects impacted the children. Â etc.
In short, children are often handed the unpalatable consequences of their parents' poor decisions. Â Just because the children *might* be impacted, is no reason to overlook enforcement of a law.
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 @ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsPhredE  @Max Quinn A well reasoned post, phred.Â
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I'm not sure that I'm in agreement with the 2nd paragraph. The counter being that many of those 'skilled American workers' dont do those jobs already. There are several skilled trade sets that are in huge demand in the US that many recent grads believe are 'beneath them'.Â
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Although, when it comes to a choice between starving and living on the street or learning how to weld... societal darwinism comes into play.Â
 @Max Quinn Thank you for taking the time to craft a well thought out response.Â
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The issues surrounding non-participating minors who have come into the country is indeed a strong one in support of amnesty. I guess the response that I would come up with would be something along the lines of 'earn it'. Just because you are a non-participating undocumented immigrant shouldn't (IMO) make you deserving of special protections and privledges. To me, for such a proposal to be reasonable, there would be prerequisites to the benefits. Things such as requirements that students earn a 3.5gpa, stay out of legal trouble, join peace corps, do 4 years in the military, or some other type of evidence that they are interested in being in the group that is not simply part of the problem. THEN I could justify efforts to engage and support your drive for legal citizenship. But, to just offer privledge as a given because someones parents broke the law seems pretty insaine. If you use the 'low wage standard of living' arguments, then shouldn't we also grant such benefits to the children of drug addicts by default?
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And no, the whole concept of a mass deportation is innaine both logistically and fiscally. If the state and federal government adopted employment and welfare policies (and, importantly, actually enforced those laws and policies) that prohibited undocumented immigrants receiving either social services, or paychecks, the problem would take care of its self.Â
 @Max Quinn  @MarkKpic >"If the children of drug addicts are citizens, then we do grant them those benefits by default."
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Yes and no. Social services, I conceed your point. The only real counter would be that many times the adults dont apply for, and therefore the children dont receive, social service benefits. However, special consideration insofar as college tuition rates, no they don't.Â
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>'Â As the children were not responsible for having been brought here, I'm less concerned that they prove themselves worthy of something that other people obtained by birth than I am of moving passed this mess.'
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 When you dismissively say 'obtained by birth', it's a bit ingenuine. Residents 'obtained' special consideration insofar as college tuition rates 'by birth' because (presumably) their parents and they themselves have paid and continue to pay into state funding for education through taxes. Taxes that are not paid by someone who is working 'under the table', or on a stolen (invalid) SSN do. I agree wholeheartedly that the sins of the father should not be visited upon their children, but what Lord Kitzhaber is proposing goes beyond that.
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It's (in essence) another system in OR that seems to be put in place that almost encourages undocumented immigrants to come to Oregon. So, again, my question is why should someone bother to even try to gain citizenship or legal status? Someone can just make a b-line for Oregon, and the state mandates by law that you are entitled to all manner of services, and makes it unlawful for anyone to even ask if you're here legally.Â
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I do get that, on the surface, my position comes across as being a bit xenophobic. It's not. It's just frustration that our state seems incapable of filtering 'feel good' idealism with fiscal pragmatism. Oregon is travelling at mach 3 towards the same end that has hit our neighbor to the south, for most of the exact same reasons, and nobody seems to care.
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I do thank you for your thoughts on the issue, Max. As usual, they are well reasoned and coherent considerations.Â
 @MarkKpic  @Max Quinn If the children of drug addicts are citizens, then we do grant them those benefits by default.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you at a deep level. As the children were not responsible for having been brought here, I'm less concerned that they prove themselves worthy of something that other people obtained by birth than I am of moving passed this mess.
 @MarkKpic Well when you state "there is a cost" you pretty much framed your position.  Try adding a bit of "and then there is the benefit". Â
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Even when you say you are not "anti" you position yourself as the "anti" by presenting only negatives.
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Now I let a progressive Mexican who came here against his/her will and have since succeeded in life to respond to you.  I doubt there will be many, because the ones I know have jobs, and almost never troll the comments (seems more whites do this, disproportionately.) Â
 @Benjamin Schniffle  @MarkKpic 'my position' is a simply critical analysis.Â
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As anyone who's read my posts is aware of, I try really hard to look at all sides of issues and come to some conclusions. I also understand that my 'side' isn't the only one, and that there are often postulates that I have not considered. In this issue, the 'side' that I'm taking is one of disbelief.Â
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"I know a guy..." isn't a response, it's spin. For every 1 example of someone who's come into the country illegally, and gone on to be a pillar of the community, I can show you 1 who's now a inmate, or lives almost exclusively off the state and federal social services budget.Â
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My understanding is that the reason in-state tuition is less than out-of-state, is because the state is subsidizing residents' tuition via tax dollars, yes? If these uninvited guests (and their parents) are not legally allowed to work, and therefore do not pay income taxes, why the hell should they be getting a subsidized education?? If the answer is "but they do pay income taxes via the social security numbers that they stole from honest citizens" then I just don't even know where to start explaining how wrong this is. The fact that they want privileges they haven't earned or paid for, and discounts on something they stole, tells you how entitled these parasites feel. No way.
I think some people here are missing the point of the story.  The 'illegals' are undocumented people, as the bill requires, who have lived in Oregon for at least 5 years. (For native-born Americans, its only 1 or 2 years.) The US is the usually the only country these prospective students really know.   These are intelligent and skilled people who are swearing to take a path to a legal American citizenship.  The obvious reason the undocumented came to the US is because Americans here hired them - they are not villains.
Death
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"illegals" are undocumented people" OK lets not sugar coat this illegal is another word denoting a crime. Thus if one is an illegal they are a criminal, they will always be a criminal.
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Do you think that someone that is arrested for a crime and sent to prison is ever known by any other moniker than a criminal.. How about rapists and child molesters who have served their prison sentence are they ever known as anything other than a child molester?  NO and illegals will always be known as CRIMINALS.
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Once a criminal always a criminal and once an illegal they will always be criminals.
@deathmetalcat YOu have not checked into the law. Unless Obama waves a magic wand these illegals cannot legalize their status here. What good does it make for one to be, oh say a doctor, when they cannot legally be employeed here?Â
hell no.
Wolverines..... Just saying.
And since most "uninvited guests" of our fair state are in the poverty realm, $9k will probably be a rarity, considering the grants/assistance those in low-income groups would receive.
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Thankfully, you've got all of those middle class folks, who've worked hard to eek out a modest living, to help cover the gap by paying the full rates, since they are the ones unable to get the financial assistance.
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The answer is always to give the law breaker...oops, "uninvited guest", the benefits at the expense of the law abiding...oops, "middle class sucker".
No.
No, not just no, Hell no! Has everyone lost their mind as to what is right? Arrest, post their pictures on ICE website, then deport the crimigrants.
Drugs are brought here illegally and yet no amnesty for possession or price break