No deal in sight as deadline for fiscal deal nears
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WASHINGTON (AP) - A last-gasp effort Thursday to avoid automatic tax increases and spending cuts got off on the same convulsive, partisan tone that marked congressional attempts to resolve the impasse before lawmakers headed home for Christmas.
With a Dec. 31 deadline for an agreement to avert the so-called "fiscal cliff" rapidly approaching, leaders in each party demanded the other side take the initiative. The new flare-up happened despite a round of calls President Barack Obama made to congressional leaders by phone Wednesday night from Hawaii before he boarded Air Force One to head home from vacation.
In a potential sign of movement, Republican leaders planned to bring the House back into session on Sunday evening. But what legislation they would act on, if anything, remained unclear.
The market was glum, with stocks falling for the fourth day in a row amid the stalled negotiations and a report that consumer confidence had plunged to its lowest level since August.
Obama arrived back in Washington in late morning, not long after Majority Leader Harry Reid took to the Senate floor to chastise House Republicans who last week opposed Speaker John Boehner's efforts to pass a narrowly crafted bill. Boehner's "Plan B" would have raised tax rates only on the very wealthiest Americans. But the opposition within his own party caucus forced the Ohio Republican to cancel a vote on the bill.
Reid charged Thursday that the House was "being operated with a dictatorship of the speaker."
"John Boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than about keeping the nation on sound financial footing," the Nevada Democrat said on the Senate floor.
Upon returning from a brief vacation, Obama faced what has become a familiar eleventh-hour scenario - one the GOP says is his fault - and even a stopgap solution was in doubt.
Without congressional action, current tax rates will expire on Dec. 31, resulting in a $536 billion tax increase that would touch nearly all Americans. Moreover, the military and other federal departments would have to cut $110 billion in spending.
But while economists have warned about the economic impact of tax hikes and spending cuts of that magnitude, both sides are increasingly proceeding as if Congress could still act in January in time to retroactively counter the effect on most taxpayers and government agencies without causing economic harm.
The issue has been Obama's first test of muscle after his re-election in November. Obama ran on a theme of having the wealthy pay a greater share toward deficit reduction with a focus on raising upper tax rates for individuals earning $200,000 or more and couples making more than $250,000. In negotiations with Boehner toward a deficit reduction plan of more than $2 trillion over 10 years, he offered to increase that threshold to $400,000, but those negotiations collapsed.
House GOP leaders this week put the burden on Reid, urging him in a statement Wednesday to take up a House-passed bill that would extend current tax rates to all taxpayers, a bill Obama has vowed to veto.
Reacting to Reid's floor remarks Thursday, Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck said: "Harry Reid should talk less and legislate more if he wants to avert the fiscal cliff. The House has already passed legislation to do so."
The White House said Obama, before leaving Hawaii, called Boehner, Reid, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. The White House statement said the president got an update on the "fiscal negotiations," but offered no detail on who, exactly, was negotiating and whether those talks were getting anywhere.
McConnell's office said Obama's phone call was the first from a Democrat on the fiscal cliff since Thanksgiving.
Last Friday, Obama and Reid voiced support for a proposal that would extend current rates to individuals earning up to $200,000 and families earning up to $250,000. Taxpayers above those thresholds would see their top rates rise. The proposal would have included extended aid to unemployed workers and some surgical cuts to avoid steeper and broader spending cuts.
For the Senate to act, it would require a commitment from McConnell not to demand a 60-vote margin to consider the legislation on the Senate floor. McConnell's office says it's too early to make such an assessment because Democrats have not put forward a specific plan and have been unclear on whether extended benefits for the unemployed would be paid for with cuts in other programs or on how it would deal with an expiring estate tax, among other issues.
The questions hanging over Washington Thursday centered on whether Reid would offer a specific piece of legislation, whether McConnell would allow it to proceed to a vote on the Senate floor and, if the Senate bill passed, whether Boehner would schedule a House vote on it. All those issues remained unresolved, and success before the end of the year appeared a long shot at best.
Reid said the GOP-controlled House easily could have passed a White House-approved plan with a majority of Democratic votes and a few dozen Republican votes. But House leaders generally avoid such tactics, because they might alienate the Republican caucus and jeopardize the speaker's job.
The House has passed a Republican plan to avert the fiscal cliff, and the Senate has passed a Democratic version. Their deficit-reduction projections differ by hundreds of billions of dollars over 10 years.
Adding to the mix of developments pushing toward a "fiscal cliff," Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Wednesday informed Congress that the government was on track to hit its borrowing limit on Monday and said he would take "extraordinary measures as authorized by law" to postpone a government default.
Still, Geithner added, uncertainty about the outcome of negotiations over taxes and spending made it difficult to determine how much time those measures would buy.
With a Dec. 31 deadline for an agreement to avert the so-called "fiscal cliff" rapidly approaching, leaders in each party demanded the other side take the initiative. The new flare-up happened despite a round of calls President Barack Obama made to congressional leaders by phone Wednesday night from Hawaii before he boarded Air Force One to head home from vacation.
In a potential sign of movement, Republican leaders planned to bring the House back into session on Sunday evening. But what legislation they would act on, if anything, remained unclear.
The market was glum, with stocks falling for the fourth day in a row amid the stalled negotiations and a report that consumer confidence had plunged to its lowest level since August.
Obama arrived back in Washington in late morning, not long after Majority Leader Harry Reid took to the Senate floor to chastise House Republicans who last week opposed Speaker John Boehner's efforts to pass a narrowly crafted bill. Boehner's "Plan B" would have raised tax rates only on the very wealthiest Americans. But the opposition within his own party caucus forced the Ohio Republican to cancel a vote on the bill.
Reid charged Thursday that the House was "being operated with a dictatorship of the speaker."
"John Boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than about keeping the nation on sound financial footing," the Nevada Democrat said on the Senate floor.
Upon returning from a brief vacation, Obama faced what has become a familiar eleventh-hour scenario - one the GOP says is his fault - and even a stopgap solution was in doubt.
Without congressional action, current tax rates will expire on Dec. 31, resulting in a $536 billion tax increase that would touch nearly all Americans. Moreover, the military and other federal departments would have to cut $110 billion in spending.
But while economists have warned about the economic impact of tax hikes and spending cuts of that magnitude, both sides are increasingly proceeding as if Congress could still act in January in time to retroactively counter the effect on most taxpayers and government agencies without causing economic harm.
The issue has been Obama's first test of muscle after his re-election in November. Obama ran on a theme of having the wealthy pay a greater share toward deficit reduction with a focus on raising upper tax rates for individuals earning $200,000 or more and couples making more than $250,000. In negotiations with Boehner toward a deficit reduction plan of more than $2 trillion over 10 years, he offered to increase that threshold to $400,000, but those negotiations collapsed.
House GOP leaders this week put the burden on Reid, urging him in a statement Wednesday to take up a House-passed bill that would extend current tax rates to all taxpayers, a bill Obama has vowed to veto.
Reacting to Reid's floor remarks Thursday, Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck said: "Harry Reid should talk less and legislate more if he wants to avert the fiscal cliff. The House has already passed legislation to do so."
The White House said Obama, before leaving Hawaii, called Boehner, Reid, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. The White House statement said the president got an update on the "fiscal negotiations," but offered no detail on who, exactly, was negotiating and whether those talks were getting anywhere.
McConnell's office said Obama's phone call was the first from a Democrat on the fiscal cliff since Thanksgiving.
Last Friday, Obama and Reid voiced support for a proposal that would extend current rates to individuals earning up to $200,000 and families earning up to $250,000. Taxpayers above those thresholds would see their top rates rise. The proposal would have included extended aid to unemployed workers and some surgical cuts to avoid steeper and broader spending cuts.
For the Senate to act, it would require a commitment from McConnell not to demand a 60-vote margin to consider the legislation on the Senate floor. McConnell's office says it's too early to make such an assessment because Democrats have not put forward a specific plan and have been unclear on whether extended benefits for the unemployed would be paid for with cuts in other programs or on how it would deal with an expiring estate tax, among other issues.
The questions hanging over Washington Thursday centered on whether Reid would offer a specific piece of legislation, whether McConnell would allow it to proceed to a vote on the Senate floor and, if the Senate bill passed, whether Boehner would schedule a House vote on it. All those issues remained unresolved, and success before the end of the year appeared a long shot at best.
Reid said the GOP-controlled House easily could have passed a White House-approved plan with a majority of Democratic votes and a few dozen Republican votes. But House leaders generally avoid such tactics, because they might alienate the Republican caucus and jeopardize the speaker's job.
The House has passed a Republican plan to avert the fiscal cliff, and the Senate has passed a Democratic version. Their deficit-reduction projections differ by hundreds of billions of dollars over 10 years.
Adding to the mix of developments pushing toward a "fiscal cliff," Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Wednesday informed Congress that the government was on track to hit its borrowing limit on Monday and said he would take "extraordinary measures as authorized by law" to postpone a government default.
Still, Geithner added, uncertainty about the outcome of negotiations over taxes and spending made it difficult to determine how much time those measures would buy.
The second biggest obstacle/roadblock after obozo is Harry Reid. Nevada should of at least kicked this jerk to the curb in November.
@theobserver Ya , they're the problem NOT the fool that filabusters his own bill..keep thinking that way !
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 http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/mcconnell-filibusters-his-own-bill-to-lift-debt-limit.php
Interesting look at federal spending....
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNF8HYh59Rs
Just buy a bigger jar of Vaseline as you bend over - you get what you got for voting for King Omama...
@boned Ignorance is bliss, eh boned? Or are you just a sore loser that loves to insult the majority? The bottom line here is Congress, not the President. In fact, Congress is responsible for nearly everything, good or bad, despite what you may believe.
 @I812 And like Obama, the MAJORITY voted to keep Republicans in control of Congress. So if the majority was smart in your eyes to keep Obama, then they were also smart to keep the Republicans in charge of the Congress. You can't have it both ways.Â
@last boyscout actually the majority voted to put democrats in congress, but because of Republican gerrymandering their votes didn't cause that. Republican candidates trailed by over 1 million votes yet were still elected. Seems in their world, the majority means nothing. Win by hook or crook should be the Republican mantra.
@last boyscout Get your exercise jumping to conclusions much? I did not say, or even intimate, that the majority was smart or made smart choices. The two major party system in this country has become dysfunctional and the voter is not left with much to work with, regardless of party affiliation.
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And, to correct your "Republicans are in charge of the Congress" statement. Republicans have a majority in the United States House of Representatives. Democrats have a majority in the United States Senate. This means that each major party controls one house but neither controls Congress.Â
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There is plenty of blame to go around. Unfortunbately there is little, if any, acceptance of responsibility or accountability by those elected.
Two Years Ago, John Boehner promised to be "Laser Focused on Jobs and the Economy." So what has the GOP House been up to? House Bills passed: 46 Bills on Abortion 113 Bills on Religion 73 Bills on Family Relationships 36 Bills on Marriage 72 Bills on Firearms 604 Bills on Taxation 437 Bills on Govt Investigations Bills attempted and failed to be passed even by the GOP: 33 attempts to Defund Obamacare.....Failed 15 attempts to Cut Funding for Planned Parenthood......Failed 3 Attempts to Cut Funding for VA Hospitals.......Failed. GOP blocked bills: Blocked bill to aid Small Business Blocked Unemployment extension Blocked Bank Reform Bills Blocked Campaign Finance Reform and open Contributions Law Blocked MULTIPLE Jobs Bills Blocked Infrastructure Bill Blocked Ending Tax Breaks for companies that Outsource Jobs Blocked Wall Street Reform Blocked Energy Legislation Blocked Mine Safety Bill Blocked Oil Spill Liability Cap increase Blocked Bill to lower Oil Company Tax Breaks Blocked Bill to impose charging American Oil Companies on Oil achieved in the Gulf Number of TRUE Jobs Bills even allowed to come to a vote in the House....NONE.
It's time to go off the fecial cliff !!!!
I've taken all of my stocks out of the market...'cuz we're fixin' to be on a roller coaster.
And the band keeps playing to keep the people distracted from the fact that the ship(ship of state) is sinking faster and faster, and that the captain(obozo) and his crew(democraps) have taken the only lifeboat.
The current salary (2011-2012) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year.
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There are 535 members of congress, each member gets an allowance of between $1.4 and $ 2 miilion a year.
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The average yearly Social Security benefit for a retired worker was about $14,800 for the year 2012.
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Bacic pay for an E5 active duty soldier in afphganistan about 30,000
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And after the "fiscal cliff" passes whos gonna get cuts....I ain't no senators son !!!!!
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Kitzhaber already made sure that the Gillnet fleet wont have to pay higher taxes.by eliminating jobs no taxes are collected
Lets not forget this fiscal cliff nonsense is just the warm up for upping the debt limit coming next month. Â
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I just hope the freshman R's have the nads to say no to raising the debt limit until their are  significant cuts NOW.
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Cutting spending is the ONLYÂ THINGÂ that will prevent our credit rating from being downgraded further.....
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@Fed up Fed """""""""Raising the debt limit doesn't authorize new spending, it let's us pay our bills for money we've already obligated.""""""""
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Anyone who believes B HO is an absolute fool. His mouth says one thing, his actions say somthing completely different.
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Why don't you take a quick look at B HO's history of the debt ceiling (2nd vid) Actually his words are spot on, his actions however are not.
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Actually, the words from Bronco Bamma's  mouth make perfect sense....... but is the complete opposite of his actions
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ziiZFcWChg
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft9oyp4IEUU
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BTW, Senator B HO voted NOT to raise the debt limit in 2006. he DID NOT bother voting in 2007 or 2008
Such irony from MOST of your posts when you claim, "more lefty hate", anytime someone speaks back at you in YOUR same tone ....you ever notice that ???
@Fed up Fed   """"Raising the debt limit doesn't authorize new spending, it let's us pay our bills for money we've already obligated.""""
I did NOT say anything different, you are so set on picking a fight, you are looking for things that are not there.
"""""""Â Furthermore, you're so full of horse pucky, I don't know where the crap ends and you begin.""""""
 More hate from the left...... to be expected. Your brains seem incapable of making a point without insults, name calling and a truly condescending tone.
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"""""""Well, first of all, let's cut the euphamisms out: "cut spending" means cut Medicare and cut Social Security, as they're the main drivers of the deficit.""""""
Personally my preference would be to take the budget back to 2008 (pre stimulus)  levels and level the spending flat until revenues equal spending Borrowing 37cents out of every dollar the feds spend is beyond insane.Â
BTW, I'm all for cutting ~10% out of the military budget, we don't need to play world police anymore. Â
"""""If we ended the war in Afghanistan and raised taxes back to Clinton-era levels, we'd eliminate most of our deficit.""""
If you mean clinton era tax rates for EVERYONE, that would be fine. I'd prefer they stay where .they are, but if they are to be cranked up, it should be for everyone.
"""""""""Â since we're currently taxing at the lowest rate since Eisenhower, and it's clearly not working""""""""
My gawd, talk about being full of ........, the lowest taxes were during the Reagan years with the lowest rate being 28%, and yes the lower tax rates did work just fine! Rates went down and income to the feds went up. And yes Reagan did spend way too much, because of pressure from the left to do so.
""""""""But you go on ahead and keep selling your lies about "cutting spending." Keep on trying to fool granny into thinking you mean "cut spending" for someone else's healthcare and retirement check. """""""
Wow, you have incredibly limited thinking to believe that is all that could be cut.
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"Your brains seem incapable of making a point without insults, name calling and a truly condescending tone."...hmmm, you look at your avatar lately ???
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"the lowest taxes were during the Reagan years with the lowest rate being 28%, and yes the lower tax rates did work just fine! Rates went down and income to the feds went up. "
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Not really, not for your "job creators" and thats what the "lowest tax rates" quotes from obama naming those at the very highest incomes
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I know , it's great for rightees to think a guy with alzhiemer somehow was just peachy keen and fixed everything but you forgot to add that he TRIPLED the US defecit when he left office.
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"For people whose income ranked between the top 1 percent and top 0.5 percent, the effective tax rate for individual, corporate, payroll and estate was 34.0 percent in 1960, 36.1 percent in 1970, 37.6 percent in 1980, 31.5 percent in 1990, 35.7 percent in 2000 and 31.3 percent in 2004.
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For those earning between the top 0.1 percent and 0.5 percent of the income curve, the numbers were 41.4 percent in 1960, 44.6 percent in 1970, 43.0 percent in 1980, 33.0 percent in 1990, 38.4 percent in 2000 and 33.0 percent in 2004.For those earning between 0.01 percent and 0.1 percent, the rates were 55.3 percent in 1960, 59.1 percent in 1970, 51.0 percent in 1980, 34.3 percent in 1990, 40.2 percent in 2000 and 34.1 percent in 2004.
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Finally, for those in the top 0.01 percent of the income distribution, the effective tax rate was 71.4 percent in 1960, 74.6 percent in 1970, 59.3 percent in 1980, 35.4 percent in 1990, 40.8 percent in 2000 and 34.7 percent in 2004.So for each of these elite income groups, the effective tax rates were at or near historical lows in 2004, though for certain groups, the effective rate was equal or slightly lower in 1990. Of course, this data is seven years old."
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jun/29/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-tax-rates-are-lowest-1950s-ceos-/
I'm so sick of this BS.  Just let all the Bush tax cuts expire, and then in January the new Congress can legislate tax breaks for the people who actually need them.
If going "over the cliff" is what it takes to get these government clowns to finally understand that you CAN'T spend more that you take in, then tighten the seat belt and hit the gas. If the only way to cut government waste and BS spending is to go over the cliff, then do it.
@last boyscout If going over the cliff tanks the economy then we will have even less revenue. It is time to come to an agreement.
 @bikegeek Whatever it takes for the government to CUT their spending habits is what we need to happen. You and I both know that if we personally spend too much, we're screwed. It's time the government realizes that they have been overspending for too long, and it's got to end now.Â
 @last boyscout Yes your right.No one should spend more then they make,It is easy for the government to spend because they don't make the money they are spending.i would be carefree about spending also if it was not my money i was spending.
If you ask me, America's financial system will collapse; it's only a matter of time.
The Republicans are blaming the Democrats and the Democrats are blaming the Republicans. Hopefully someday these clowns will come to the realization that if you're going to succeed, you have to work together and quit pointing fingers.
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 @Fed up Fed When are you going to take off the blinders? When are you going to quit making posts that do nothing but try to start an argument?Â
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Y'know, they (both parties, incl the WH) are making such a long-drawn-out soap opera out of this "fiscal cliff" - it's like they're doing it on purpose, eg: as a major distraction... Â Â I wonder what else they're "working on" that they don't want us noticing / paying any attention to... Â Â
What a ship of fools. The level of ignorance, recalcitrance, and incompetence in Congress is frightening.
All politicians can go straight to hell.
 @GrandpaWBCHater  For most of them, it will just be return to their roots.
 @GrandpaWBCHater Au contraire-  Politicians, kept aloft by their cushy pay and benefits packages and 'consultant' & speaking fees will continue to reside in their version of heaven.Â
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It is 'we the people' who are denigrated to live in the hell they create for us.Â
This is getting disgusting. Taking turns blaming the other party is not getting us any closer to a compromise, and it's not making points for either side with most voters. Clearly neither side is going to get exactly what they want, so just figure it out already. I think the general public is getting tired of the blame game, regardless of what party they belong to.
"For the Senate to act would require a commitment from McConnell not to demand a 60-vote margin to consider the legislation on the Senate floor."
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McConnell is detrimental to the functions of government, he doesn't care about the good of the people, he cares about his party above and beyond everything.....I hope everyone brought a parachute.
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 @deejm2112 >'McConnell is detrimental to the functions of government, he doesn't care about the good of the people, he cares about his party above and beyond everything.'
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but couldn't the same be said about Pelosi, Reed & Boehner? For that matter, couldn't the same be said for the entire US Congress & President Obama?
 @MarkKpic McConnell is on record saying his number 1 goal was to make sure Obama was a one term president. Not long after Obama was elected (the first time), a non-partisan spending bill was put forward backed by McCain and several other Republicans and once Obama backed it they suddenly pulled support and it was never pushed forward. That was McConnells doing....the guy is a big reason why congress is so dysfunctional.
 @deejm2112  @MarkKpic >'McConnell is on record...' True enough. Although, if I recall correctly, that was pretty much the entirety of the GOP election platform last time around.Â
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>'Not long after Obama was elected (the first time)...' True. However, I don't believe that it met with much widespread GOP support. It also begs the question if it could have made it past DNC in the Senate.Â
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I do get what you're saying, I truly do. Boehner and his cohorts have effectively put the entirety of the federal government in hostage negotiations. I just firmly believe (and have ample evidence to support that belief) that the DNC is doing the same with other bills and proposals. While the current topic du' jour is the looming 'fiscal cliff', it's not the only evidence that we have the most miopic and partisan divided government that we could imagine.Â
Quite frankly I am sick and tired of politicians whose priorities are 1) themselves; 2) their party; 3) their caucus; 4) their committee assignments; and somewhere way down the line comes the United States of America and Americans. The biggest impediment to America's economic recovery is Congress. It is time to vote every one of them out and start all over. The two major political parties are destroying this country and have made sure there are no more statesmen left in Congress. It is time for the voters to hold every one of these game players responsible and accountable.
 @I812 The only (possible) substitute/addenum I might suggest is the inclusion of their reelection campaigns?
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When all you care about is how you look, and if you will lose a potential big campaign contributor (or party support/endorsement) if you vote this way or that way, it's awfully hard to look at the overall effect of proposed legislation.Â
It's perfectly clear to me that both the dems and reps want the tax hike because neither of them is willing to take the heat for making the necessary budget cuts. All this bickering is stage dressing and each party knows they have an opportunity to blame it on the other with no risk of change in opinion among the party faithful. I hope no one is holding their breath, thinking they will pull off an 11th hour compromise. They have no intention of doing so - they need the tax revenue too desperately.
*Surprise, surprise*
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Wish we could withhold all their paychecks until they came to a mutual agreement. That would guarantee a fast resolution to outstanding issues. Give them a "cliff" to look down that hurts them a little more close to home.
 @Justanother1 Although I fully admit that it wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hades of becoming law, and even if it did it would end up in front of the SCOTUS (who would then summarily shoot it down), I firmly believe that our federal government should enact a very necessary  governance law.Â
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A federal budget MUST be signed into law by the expiration of the preceeding budget. Failure to do so automatically withdraws ALL funding from Congressional AND Presidential payroll, benefits and health insurance. Once this default takes place, any money lost is GONE. Period. There will be no reciprocal repayment of these funds.Â
We should always strive to look at the good of things...
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Senator Reid and Representative Boehner are wearing very nice ties.
 @Dirtman ~ Hmm... hadn't really looked at their ties that closely before now...  very similar patterns, just different colors... makes me wonder if these guys do what we females often did as teenagers; you're invited to a really "important" party, so you call up all your friends ahead of time to find out what they're wearing...if you're young teens, will your mom let you wear make-up, the latest gossip about "who's going with who", "who didn't get invited", "who broke up with who", and all the other critical info a teen needs to know...  and hey!  we did all this withOUT Facebook or cellphones...!  :-)
@margay1 ......"we females" ?? What ever happened to calling women...women? Girls ....girls ?? This male female nonsense is the promotion of depersonalization of people. Don't fall prey to that Margay. You're smarter then that !
@margay1 So this is the origin of why grown women take 30 minutes to put on clothes.
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Imagine the awkwardness if both these guys showed up wearing the same tie!
 @Dirtman  @margay1 ~  ...chuckle, chuckle...  You're probably right, Dirtman...  hey; it took time for us to look as good as our guys wanted us to look..!  :-)
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In re the guys wearing the same ties.... I'll bet they each keep a spare on hand, just in case that happens... Â :-)
 @Dirtman LOL.... But, alas, even rose colored glasses will be shattered once we 'fall off the fiscal cliff'.
It is Obama and the Democrats that are forcing us to go off the "fiscal cliff"!
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Caused by:
Their refusal to compromise!
Their demand that it must be their way!Â
Their overspending!
Their socialism!
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When will it end?
When will we have a "TRUE American" in the White House?
 @Freedom1267 Wow are you perverted in your thinking...looking at green and calling it blue.
Say what you will but that is not how the public is perceiving this and in the end it's all about perception...republicans don't need to change they just need to change people's perceptions of them. If they don't then people will continue to perceive them as being out of touch with the will of the people. You don't have to agree with me (and I'm sure you won't) but it doesn't matter because that's just my perception, and I wanted to see how many times I could use the word perception in this post. Any way here is the link about the public's perception of who's getting blamed for this and therefore how it will go down in history: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/27/us-usa-fiscal-poll-idUSBRE8BQ0J620121227
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...Party on Garth;-)
Say what you will but that is not how the public is perceiving this and in the end it's all about perception...republicans don't need to change they just need to change people's perceptions of them. If they don't then people will continue to perceive them as being out of touch with the will of the people. You don't have to agree with me (and I'm sure you won't) but it doesn't matter because that's just my perception, and I wanted to see how many times I could use the word perception in this post Any way here is the link about the public's perception of who's getting blamed for this and therefore how it will go down in history: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/27/us-usa-fiscal-poll-idUSBRE8BQ0J620121227
@Freedom1267 The election is over. Get behind our President and support our country. America love it or leave it.
 @bikegeek  @Freedom1267  No. Why do you assume that not supporting the President's programs and policies is akin to not supporting the country? Do you really desire a country, a world, where everyone is in lockstep?
 @bikegeek  @Freedom1267 You can take YOUR president and shove him up your arse. I do not consider 0bama to be my president - and nearly half of the country feels the same way. I DO love America, and do not want to see it dragged so far away from the origins staked in the ground by our Founding Fathers.
 @Altazi  @bikegeek  @Freedom1267  The key there is "nearly" half. This is the way it is in almost every presidential election. Nevertheless, the winner of the election is the president, always to the chagrin of the smaller half.Â
 @Altazi  @bikegeek  @Freedom1267 Traitor.
Who exactly DO you consider to be your president? Â And which origins did the founders stake that you see us all dragged away from? Â
@Freedom1267 "Their refusal to compromise! Their demand that it must be their way! Their overspending!" Those three points apply equally to the Republicans. The sooner we come to the realization that it is both parties, and large number of the "people" the better.
 @JTesla  @Freedom1267 *standing ovation*
 @Freedom1267 If you're not joking, then you must be out of your mind. Socialism?!? Obama and the Democrats have bent over backwards to compromise, but the Republicans refuse to budge even a little. They're going to punish the entire country for some stupid and meaningless pledge to protect millionaires from paying one penny more.
 @badcat Hey now -- a little deference to the wealthy is needed here.  They worked tirelessly (on our backs) to get where they are.  Besides, the whole "socialism" mumbo-jumbo is fun to read.Â
 @Freedom1267 ~  Trouble is, Freedom, what we NEED are "statesmen" in our elected government... but all we have are "politicians"...  and the only things that the "politicians" care about are money and power (not necessarily in that order).   With them, it's purely accidental if they happen to do something that's good for the country while they're going after their own interests...