WA governor urges action on new I-5 Columbia River bridge
VANCOUVER, Wash. (AP) — Gov. Jay Inslee said Friday that Washington has a closing window of opportunity to replace the bridge carrying Interstate 5 over the Columbia River, warning that failure to act would "start that erosion process in our economic competitiveness."
Speaking with Southwest Washington business and government leaders, the governor said the opportunity for more than $1 billion in federal funding won't be available for at least another decade.
"This is the last-second shot for our team, and we've got to take it, because there's no other shot available to us," Inslee said.
The project has run into vociferous opposition from light-rail critics who oppose plans to use the bridge to link Vancouver with Portland's light-rail system. Inslee, a light-rail supporter, said removing the transit component isn't an option.
"There really, at this moment in time, are only two decisions that are before the state, and that is to move forward with the current configuration or not move forward for the next 10 years," he said.
Vancouver voters in November rejected a sales tax hike to help pay for light-rail expansion. Rail opponents say the decision is a signal that voters oppose light rail; Inslee said voters were merely opposing a sales tax increase but might support other ways of paying for light rail.
Oregon recently approved $450 million toward the project, and Washington has to kick in a similar amount to secure $1.2 billion in federal transit and highway funds. Another roughly $1 billion would come from the tolls.
Despite Inslee's enthusiastic support, the project is vocally opposed by more than just light-rail foes. Some say the cash-strapped state has higher priorities. Others say the height is too low and will hurt three businesses upstream that won't be able to get their goods underneath. The proposed span would not lift and would have 116 feet of clearance for river traffic — about 50 feet less than the maximum clearance of the existing bridge, which does lift.
Inslee said he hopes to find money to help those businesses mitigate the impacts.
Sen. Don Benton, R-Vancouver, said he's not buying the argument that the project is important for economic development.
"I see it as restricting the future economic development beyond repair," he said, because it will limit any future manufacturing operations upstream from the new bridge. He's also worried about the impact of tolls on the local economy.
Neighborhood groups in Portland also have opposed it, saying they're concerned traffic jams will move from Vancouver to the next I-5 choke point at the Rose Quarter near downtown Portland.
The bridge is a chokepoint on Interstate 5, and businesses and commuters complain that they lose hours stuck in traffic. Inslee said replacing the project is crucial to Washington's economic competitiveness because businesses considering expanding in Washington want to know they can get supplies quickly and efficiently ship out their goods. He said the bridge is important to any person with a job in the state.
Between 2006 and 2008, on average nearly a third of Clark County workers — 62,000 — were employed outside Washington, according to data from the Columbia River Economic Development Council.
Copyright 2013 The Associated Press.
Let us not forget that there is an agreement between Washington and Oregon that if this bridge is not built and partially funded by Washington state that the State of Oregon has the right to sue all of Washington state and their residents who work in Oregon for the income taxes owed the state of Oregon that does not come out of their checks, or if it does gets refunded at the end of the year to them. This was created way back in the 80's I think when they first realized the bridge was too small. Currently Oregon is not supposed to collect income taxes from Washington residents who work in Oregon and if they do then they have to refund it, that's part of the agreement. So before you get too full of yourselves, time do some historical research and find out what will happen if you don't agree to it. Remember Oregon's tax code reads if you earn money in Oregon, you owe us income tax, if you live in Oregon you owe us income tax, unless you reside in Washington state then we'll give it back as long as I-5 bridge gets replaced. If that does not happen you'll owe us a ton of taxes and there will be one huge lawsuit from Oregon to Washington.
A simple way to judge the economic value of the bridge would be to charge anyone with a Washington plate a toll to get into Oregon. Everyone else would be exempt.
This is easy for a man from King County that never rides public transport. Â I defy him to come to Vancouver and ride the C-tran 105 to Pioneer Square and then ride the Max from the Expo center to pioneer square. Â Then come back to Washington and tell the people that vote for him that the light rails is a good solution for Washington commuters. Â C-tran 105 downtown Vancouver to Pioneer square, twenty minutes. Â Light rail from the expo center to Pioneer Square, 45 minutes... add another 15 minutes for the extension to down Vancouver and you're looking at an hour commute. Â I'm 100% behind efficient public transit, but this is far from it, Â a poor excuse inefficient excuse for it.
How about we just skip it? Â If Washington wants a new bridge, and they want to buy it, I'm okay with Oregon cooperating with getting it hooked up to our roads. Â Maybe we pay for the work we want done from here to Jantzen Beach, then from Hayden Island we can just let Washington build whatever they want, it'll just be a bottleneck if they don't work with out designs.
Vancouver can buy the bridge they want, and Portland can bottleneck the heck out of it. Â It seems fair.
A better proposal than Governor Inslee's is this: Stop present bridge construction programming. Begin a brand new, ground-up reassessment of tolling revenue projections, optimal supporting road projects, and bridge design. Once created, subject the new plan to continuing review while creating a paid-up fund for the major part of the cost. Then wait until the next major downturn. By that time, all concerned will possess far improved design and planning knowledge, substantial funding on hand, and the project can proceed as a needed stimulus near the depth of the next recession. A further advantage will be better knowledge as to then-current energy supplies, national economic situation, and people's preferences. Right now, the world, national, and state economic situations are in a state of bafflement that argues strongly for caution.
A significant side benefit will be that Oregon and Washington will obtain a few more years of use out of a fully-paid-for bridge that has remaining life expectancy. In the interim, tolling can be experimented with and knowledge gained as to the influence of various toll schemes on bridge traffic. Learning, Governor Inslee, is useful.
@Marvin McConoughey Then the bridge wouldn't be built.  And the bridge needs to be built.  ASAFP
The project has run into vociferous opposition from light-rail critics who oppose plans to use the bridge to link Vancouver with Portland's light-rail system. Inslee, a light-rail supporter, said removing the transit component isn't an option.
Remember back when politicians used to represent the will of the people? actually I'm 60 years old and I hardly remember that time. Now Democrats run the government and they have their own agenda which is not intended to benefit the people.
Four times the people in Vancouver have voted overwhelmingly not to have light rail or as we referred to it the crime train come into their neighborhood.Â
 I've heard the new bridge does not increase traffic lanes but doesn't add on bicycle paths and light rail. Both of these methods of transportation are deeply rooted in Europe but this is not Europe. Well except for the idea of government looking at you the people as subjects incapable of thinking on their grand scale. that's why they don't listen to you you the voters are just not smart enough to know what is good for you only the elitist Democrats can peer into the future and tell you what you're going to need some day. Of course by then you'll be to overburdened with taxes to ever have a need to leave the factory you'll be granted permission to work in.
Elitist Democrats have decided the earth is going to meet its demise to global warming (excuse me it's called climate change for the climate doesn't always warm up each year ) so through zoning they have forced you to live in town on very small pieces of land at great expense so they can live out in the country not next to the great unwashed. (YOU ). They've created light rail the most expensive method of public transportation so you won't be on their highways inconveniencing them as they travel separated from you the great unwashed. They zoned property in a way it can be used by user great unwashed but it's left open for their recreational and animal viewing needs.Â
 The elite Democrats do this through fear, climate change, not enough open land to produce food, deciding wildlife needs your property even if it in town.  Yes you've lost your rights and freedoms you are now subjects to the Democratic crown.Â
@OrThinker http://www.columbiarivercrossing.org/ProjectInformation/ProblemsSolutions/CRBridgeDesign.aspx
@lumberghfukder @OrThinker you need to start riding the light rail and C-tran and then you realize this is not a solution worthy of Washington.
@OrThinker I was following you somewhat intently until you got to the 2nd paragraph of your statement.  Didn't your generation burn their draft cards?  Didn't your generation burn their bras? Didn't your generation pioneer Civil Disobedience?  You say that the government doesn't listen to your pleas, yet you, collectively, allowed the general population of your state easier access to drugs and alcohol.  How do you explain that?  Is it just that you're uninformed, sir.  Here is the design of the bridge taken from the site?  Did you see the design already?
%s
Isay build th damn thing hell if it means adding a helo pad for life flight to land inca se of accident then do itn, I don't care if it has to double as a freaking  train yard..get the damn thing built. Hell imbead the bridge with censors for the new drive them selves cars just build it.. if you have to, pave over the people standing in your way.
What they should do is design it so that you can easily add a light rail at a later time if people wanted it. Â I have no idea what existing max line would connect to this bridge, maybe the one that goes to the expo center near Smith and Bybee lake? Â That is quite a bit of railroad tracks to lay down to get to Washington! Â I think we should do a more practical and common sense project that involves freeway widening, no toll booths, and express lanes, etc. Â They need to widen I-5 from the Rose Garden north the Washington in order for this to work.
People will still have to stop at the stupid toll booths, it won't make things faster!
@portlandborn83 The Glenn Jackson bridge was built to accommodate light rail and in the 30 years that it has been open, they have not been able to push light right across.
In 1995, light rail was voted down 2 to 1.
In 2004, we again said no.
For a third time, we said no, in 2012. Â
@Pissed0ffPirate @portlandborn83 The Glenn Jackson was not built to take light rail.  The only way it could hold the trains structurally would be to remove a lane of freeway traffic, and even then that's in dispute.
@portlandborn83Â Actually, the tolling part would be pretty easy. Â Transponder tolling is pretty inexpensive...Â
And here is the projected design: Â Notice the light rail built into the design?
http://www.columbiarivercrossing.org/ProjectInformation/ProblemsSolutions/CRBridgeDesign.aspx
@lumberghfukder @portlandborn83 yeah great design, to low for marine traffic , too high for airline traffic and light rail that the votes continually vote down.
sure, lets tear down a working bridge and replace it with a bridge with the same amount of lanes, and lets spend billions of dollars and then put a toll on it as well! and lets do this in the middle of the worst recession in 80 years! right?
@john Actually, john, it's an additional two lanes in each direction. Â
Here:Â http://www.columbiarivercrossing.org/ProjectInformation/ProblemsSolutions/CRBridgeDesign.aspx
@lumberghfukder @john Even if it was, how the hell is having a 5 lane bridge with only 3 lanes of freeway on either side going to do one bit of good? Your lack of common sense is apalling
@wondering @lumberghfukder @john It's 5 lanes including two auxiliary lanes, which will exist to allow traffic between Jantzen Beach and Marine Drive not need to merge to exit, as well as to allow SR-14 to Marine Drive traffic to reduce weaving motions.
Aux lanes are commonly used in freeway projects, but I'm not sure what they have to do with common sense. Â You probably should learn more about the topic at hand before acting so high and mighty though.
y'know...the I-205 bridge was designed and built for the very amount of money the CRC has already peed away.
@Maxredline Yeah, and then some retarded driver from Washington state flips a car or truck and ties up traffic for hours and hours. Â
I think drivers from Vancouver should get an Oregon drivers license.
@lumberghfukder @Maxredline Not like that would solve much, the Oregon test is just as much a a joke as the Washington test.  If you really think Oregon drivers are in any way superior to Washington drivers you need to get out more.  They dare not raise the speed limit on Oregon freeways for good reason.
How many of you small minded provincial jackasses DRIVE over that bridge every day? And I'm sure the ones of you that do are single riders, alone in their cars, lost in their privacy. DESTROYING the beauty this area once gave us with clean air and open spaces.
@frings And we flick our cig butts out the window also.
@disgustedman @frings You tobacco junkies should eat them instead.
@frings   hug any trees lately?
We do not want light rail in Vancouver... how may times do we voters has to say it?
@Pissed0ffPirate We don't want more traffic in NE Portland.  It's just skip the bridge completely?
@Pissed0ffPirate I've seen you morons tying up traffic for hours and hours.  We're so tired of you retards driving recklessly on our roads.
@lumberghfukder @Pissed0ffPirate They'll be just as many morons on the road if they ever build the light rail,  the only difference will be a huge sucking sound coming from your wallet.
@lumberghfukder @Pissed0ffPirate Got some pretty good drugs there, eh?
@pissed   we have said it twice! voted it down!  and we will say it as many times as needed!
What are some of these politicians not understanding. NO means NO. The Vote was NO. Most do not want to pay and or have light rail. Wow and they threaten to go ahead anyway if they can. Be careful who you elect. i.e mayor Leavitt no tolls remember that one got him elected. I think we may need another 10 years so these people and the ones that have already wasted millions on figuring out how to build it and still can't get it right are replaced.
@tlynn How about no light rail, no new bridge, and as a region we just move on?  It seems fair to me.
@knottriel @tlynn email Jay Islee and leave him in no doubt.
The bridge is a chokepoint on Interstate 5, and businesses and commuters complain that they lose hours stuck in traffic. Inslee said replacing the project is crucial to Washington's economic competitiveness because businesses considering expanding in Washington want to know they can get supplies quickly and efficiently ship out their goods. He said the bridge is important to any person with a job in the state.
Uhh..What? Did the I-205 Bridge suddenly vanish??
@disgustedman The Glenn Jackson is a great bridge, but the I-5 bridge gets 10 times as much traffic.  People who live in Vancouver and work in NoPo need to take light rail.  Who cares if Vancouver doesn't want to pay for it? Â
@lumberghfukder @disgustedman What planet are you on.. the commuters from Vancouver don't work in NOPO, they work downtown and in Hillsboro.  Check out the license plates on highway 26 sometime.  Who cares if Vancouver doesn't pay for it, Oregon does, cause they can't afford it on their own.
@disgustedman especially amusing since the actual choke-point is down at Rose Quarter, isn't it?
Kitzhaber and his cronies approved the expensive 450 million that the state doesn't have.If a vote was taken from all Oregonians it would be a different outcome.
Agreed. I see no popular support in Oregon for a new bridge. Practically none in Portland, except among the handful of hustlers who hope to get rich from the project. The cost, both in $$$ and the negative impact of the project on the quality of life for North Portlanders far outweighs any benefits they may see.
@Kilgore Trout Whenever some idiot driver from Vancouver gets into an accident, traffic immediately slams the streets of North Portland.  Those retards need to learn how to drive in Oregon.
He can't seem to accept that Vancouver voted no on light rail. He thinks they really do want it, but they want him to steal from other dwindling revenue sources to pay for it. Vancouver will have the crime train whether they like it or not, and a new bridge that doesn't improve the commute for 90% of them. I bet it would be fun to watch the mostly empty train full of whiz by in that extra lane while you're stuck in traffic...
@Ifishsum The crime train?  You mean, the way that Hillsboro is such a terrible place that Intel just keeps expanding out near a MAX station?  And that private money is getting pumped into Orenco Station again?  And the Salesforce move to near a MAX stop?
Wow, with all that crime I can't believe businesses are just flocking to MAX stops, and yet in reality they are. Â It's just amazing.
@Ifishsum Isn't it odd that they insist on running light rail into downtown Vancouver, when more of the population lives to the east of town? If they really really want a crime train, it'd be easier  to run it along I-205 to the airport line. Cheaper, too, as the right of way's already there.
@Maxredline @Ifishsum lol there IS no downtown in Vancouver.  Just a ghost town.  The reason we treat you Washingtonians like bumpkins is because if you were REALLY business friendly, Vancouver would have business relocating there.
@lumberghfukder @Maxredline @Ifishsum I used to work in downtown Vancouver, and it wasn't great, but it wasn't that terrible.  They had...  Okay, wait...  Peppers, which kind of sucked, but at least it was a ton of food for cheap.  Oh, but they closed.
Oh, there's also Burgerville. Â And Muchas Gracias. Â Yeah, they're chains with locations all over the region, but they're there. Â And Subway. Â And Quiznos.
I can think of a few places that I think closed, but...
There's probably something in downtown Vancouver to go to. Â Maybe that nice new library they built? Â You know, with public money? Â It's pretty sweet.
Another thought, why are we limited to only 2 bridges? Â Why not build a 3rd or 4th one? Â I've often wondered just why it is that we are so limited for such a heavy volume.
portland has at least 7 bridges i can think of!  SEVEN! why does the only north south freeway from canada to mexico only have 2? think about that!
Building a bridge across the Columbia is much more of a challenge then building one across the Willamette. The main issue is that people aren't willing to invest in infrastructure today. At least they aren't willing to pay more taxes to do it. Recall that when the Interstate Highway System was started in the '50s, the upper income tax rate was 90%. This is why when or if the CRC does get built, it will need to be paid for by tolling. Freedom isn't free and neither are roads and bridges.
@john At the rate China is still buying up steel and concrete they're not as cheap as they used to be.  We're also trying to not screw up the rivers like we used to.
@kilgore  so you say the city of portland with, say 600,000 polulation has an easier time funding 7+ bridges than both oregon and washington states with say 10 million people funding one? sorry not gonna buy that!
I think it is because no one will pay for a 3rd or 4th brige. You know, big government spending is bad.