Wash. gun rally: 'It's a fundamental right of every American'
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KIRKLAND, Wash. - Gun advocates rallied across Washington state Saturday to protect their right to bear arms after President Obama's executive order to toughen gun laws.
In Kirkland, nearly 100 people gathered for a rally there - all to have their voices heard and protect gun owners.
The gun advocates are protesting President Obama's executive actions. Last month, he signed into law 23 executive actions intended to reduce gun violence.
The order came in the wake of the school shooting in Connecticut where 20 children and six adults were killed.
"I think it's a fundamental right of every American to be able to defend themselves," said Peter Haigh, a gun rights advocate who attended the Kirkland rally.
Haigh started carrying after someone broke into his home about two years ago. It happened while he and his wife were sleeping.
"It was terrible," he says. "It takes everything away from you including your trust of mankind."
Across the street one gun control supporter, Stuart Dahlquist, was armed with just a sign.
"I'm tired of guns I'm tired of them being everywhere," he said. "I'm not against the idea of owning a gun. I'm against the idea of assault weapons - of people owning a gun and not having them registered."
But the gun rights advocates at the rally say they fear tighter restrictions would trickle down to law enforcement.
"We don't want to be like another nation and restrict our local law enforcement from having the firearms they need to protect us when we don't have a firearm or they respond to a scene," said Jacob Kukuk.
Despite their differences, both sides agree there needs to be discussion on gun laws.
"Nobody said this would be easy, but it's totally worth it, and it's going to take a long time to deal with everybody's opinions, and we've got to start somewhere," said Dahlquist.
What is no surprise here anymore: the level vitriol targeted for any view other than jingoistic reactionary lines, Oregon has a long history of being out in front, "changing", we have always had some who have no vision, they migrate back to mississippi or texas where ignorant and tough fits their swashbuckling way, perhaps they suffer from some other malady but likely small mind imbues such conservative racist gun loving paranoids, that poor soul, those poor souls run in packs, as fear is a flag they live under; well friction is how you achieve polish, we flush them into the open here, very easy to do, as with what unfolds below, making our work at restricting arms easier. And great material for Jon Stewart/ Colbert! thanks guys and gals! you are doing your part to, "keep Oregon green"! You can't make this up any better! hilarious, sad but hilarious. Thank you so much.
@Social Glimpse You forgot the huge amount of material supplied by Portland for the television show, Portlandia. Totally weird stuff.
@Social Glimpse Instead of a naively idyllic view of the issue, how some real suggestions?  It's always easy to criticize and make fun of other people you disagree with, but you seem to be short on real, concrete, actionable ideas. Â
@'CouvGuy @Social Glimpse Yes evidently your not paying attention, I am working to get NY law here on all handguns registered and licensed , yeah I know you labor under the notion Moses wrote 2ond amendment...and those pesky dinosaurs god put in ground to test your faith?, but heck you all check out texas for more views such as you profess, aww shucks, yer' welcome, see we liberals practice compassion for ...whatever you are...oh and thank you so much for affirming my post!
@Social Glimpse Good luck with that... but then again you are one of those  liberal sheeple that think that if you live in the PNW we have to think like you do. Wrong. besides any politician that will vote for any of these feel good , ignorant ideas of registration and licensing( which is the first step to confiscation) , will be commiting poltical suicide.
Also if the feds try and do a gun grab he will have to use unarmed liberal sheeple like yourself that have no respect for the Bill of Rights .
The Second Amendment was put up there right next to the Freedom of Speech because you cant have freedom of speech if you cant defend it. In other words , The Second Amendment is there not to protect our hunting or sporting habits, it is there to protect us from the very government administration we have right now ( and people like you, now).
@Social Glimpse What I cant figure out is why you seem to assume I'm some sort of hick.  I'm paying very close attention, thank you for asking.  You don't know who I am, nor what my background and education level is.  It would be interesting to have a real discussion if you could actually debate the facts, if you could find the way to move past derogatory rhetoric and have a real conversation.
@'CouvGuy @Social GlimpseÂ
Nice Judo there. Â You know who's ACTUALLY short on ideas? Â Yeah, that'd be the NRA, the fine folks whose mantra has been for decades, "The first rule of gun violence is, don't talk about gun violence." Â So until you come up with some ideas for curbing gun violence on your own, don't criticize others for not doing the same, hm?
Oh, for the record, I'm for background checking the HELL out of prospective gun owners, mandatory firearms training and certification, including a mental health evaluation, immediate loss of ownership privilege for anyone convicted of a violent felony or diagnosis with a disassociative disorder, such as psychosis or schizophrenia.
" @Diogenes @'CouvGuy"Come on, man..."...no, you come on.  According to 2012 crime statistics Buffalo, NY, is the tenth most dangerous city in the US.  Yes, there are nine more dangerous cities but there are many, many cities that are safer than this city in the state with, as you say, the most strict gun control laws in the US.  You seem quick to brush off Detroit - the most violent city in the US, and also one with very strict controls on weapons.  "... I'm not interested in limiting classes of firearms.  I'm interested in limiting classes of firearm owners....".  Guess the bad guys aren't paying attention to many of the laws, are they..??
"...more guns, more gun crimes and more gun deaths..".  Absolute nonsense.  You can look for yourself at the FBI's web site and see that while the number of firearms in private hands has continued to increase over the last decade or so, the rate of violent crimes, including murder, is going down.
Lastly, ".... for your claim that Federal firearm prosecutions are at an all time low, that's not what I've read..". Â Well, by all means, please do your own research and get the facts. Â Here's a quote; "...Gun prosecutions peaked at 10,937 under Bush in 2004. A current TRAC report shows that the Obama administration is prosecuting about 6,000 weapons cases...". Â By all means, don't take my word for it. Â DOJ, FBI. etc. have all the statistics on line for you to look at. Â Your claim that the ATF is hindered by current laws is ridiculous...the laws seemed to work pretty good in 2004, don't think there have been any substantial changes, other than the fact they aren't being prosecuted.
Tell me again how more laws and more restrictions will have any effect at all when criminals are perfectly comfortable breaking them.  Limit the classes of gun owners?  Think that will stem the tide of illegal weapons and weapons that are stolen?  There are several ways to make a real difference in violent crime....strict prosecution with real penalties for the CURRENT laws.  Start there....
@'CouvGuyÂ
Come on, man. Â First, the city with the strictest gun control laws in the country is New York; they're also one of the least violent cities in America. Â And even Chicago, which suffers from the fact that guns are coming in from outside their jurisdiction, isn't NEARLY as violent as St. Louis, Houston, or New Orleans. Â Fact is, more guns, more gun crimes and more gun deaths. Â But you may have noticed, despite that, I'm not interested in limiting classes of firearms. Â I'm interested in limiting classes of firearm owners. Â Guns don't kill people....
As for your claim that Federal firearm prosecutions are at an all time low, that's not what I've read. Â The ATF has been saying for a very long time that they can't make prosecutions for gunrunning because judges throw the charge out. Â There are 4th and 5th Amendment conflicts with the laws, as they're written, so the ATF has repeatedly asked for several years now to have the laws rewritten to address the objections of prosecutors and judges.
Badly worded - should have been:
Look, everyone wants a reduction in violence. Â Really. Â What I and others don't want are ineffectual 'feel good' laws passed that won't do anything except disarm those people who actually follow the laws. Â Ineffectual laws that will allow the current administration to high five each other and say "good job" when they really didn't do anything productive. Â Real change would be a start.
@Diogenes @'CouvGuy @Social Glimpse You assume way too much.  First off, I'm not 100%% behind the NRA....and I have a number of solid ideas for productive paths for gun violence.
First off, how about actually enforcing and prosecuting the laws we have?  Federal firearms prosecutions are at an all time low, thanks to this administration.  Gee, guess additional laws won't do jack if no one actually prosecutes them, will they?  There are ALREADY loss of ownership privileges for a number of violent crimes.  Guess you missed that one, too.  You do realize that the cities with some of the strictest gun laws  are also the most violent..??  Chicago, for example.....tell me again how effective even more laws are going to be when you have a criminal element that won't hesitate to break them.  Until these crimes are enforced and prosecuted, nothing will change. Â
Look, everyone wants a reduction in violence. Â Really. Â What I and others don't want are ineffectual 'feel good' laws passed that won't do anything except disarm those people who actually follow the laws. Â Ineffectual laws that will allow the current administration to high five each other and say they really didn't do anything productive. Â That would be a start.
By the way, let me know how the search for the honest man is going....;-)
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@nwipac XX FAIL XX But thanks for playing...Â
What about the women? I'm a woman and not a masculine "man wanna be" I'm a petite, feminine lady and I've carried concealed for MANY years.. I attend demos like this when I can and those men support 2nd Amendment rights for ALL Americans!Â
@cwpholder @nwipacÂ
Pfui. Â This isn't about the 2nd Amendment. Â This is about toys. Â The right to bear arms isn't being threatened, so stop trying to drape your gun obsession in the flag. Â It's disgusting and cheap.
@Diogenes @cwpholder @nwipac If you think this is about us wanting "toys" , you are a complete idiot. Any laws that track or in any way shape or form document who has what firearm and where is in direct violation of the consitution and is a precurser to confiscation.Â
Guys you really have to pity these liberal sheeple because they really have no clue on why this country is still free.Â
"Every American" includes felons, mentally ill, abusers, etc.
So these clowns think every convicted criminal should be free to own guns.
@ShallowEnder "We the People of the United States of America"!!!! Where, in this wonderful Constitution does it say "except for felons, mentally ill , abusers. etc."??? The original intent of the law was no restriction for anyone. That's explicit and as plain as can be. Only your anti-gunner whackos and fed govt. have perverted and subverted the 2nd Ammendment to be restrictive for "certain types of individuals". Technically, those restrictions are illegal; being accepted generally by the public because of the anti's consistant pressures to subvert the law. Also, nowhere in the Constitution is there any mention on restrictions of any kind of gun, it's size or capacity. "Keep and bear Arms" is all inclusive. Meaning any gun one wishes to keep and bear. Any laws restricting such is technically unconstitutional. Other measures, including strict punishments must be devised to control problems with individuals abusing their rights to guns.Â
@None You realize that only Muskets are covered by that 2nd Amendment as that is the weapon they were referring to when they wrote it. The government has passed many laws about guns and 1000's of other laws that infringe on each of us. Many laws are made to make money off the citizens requiring "permits" to do things. More laws aren't the answer. Most cops and politicians don't even know most the laws we got on the books now.
@'CouvGuy @32jim2 @NoneÂ
They also disagree with all the nutbars who think the government can't regulate firearm ownership. Â In the same case, for that matter.
@32jim2 @None The Supreme Court disagrees with your statement about the 2nd and that "...only Muskets are covered by that 2nd Amendment....".  Pretty clearly, in fact.
@32jim2 @None The Federalist Papers, writings by the framers of the Constitution made it clear that the Constitution would be progressive, meaning that as society and technology evolved, those things like modern guns would be included.
@ShallowEnder Nice try....thanks for playing.
I wonder how many of you gun control advocates are willing to kill Americans to achieve your goal. I also wonder how many of you understand that is the only way your goal can be achieved.
 Disgusting picture, the big fat hero is embracing an AK-47 that is the type of rifle responsible for the probable deaths of 50 K plus Americans in Vietnam, so why does our patriotic hero love it so , does he not remember and honor the dead from Vietnam, including my brother !
@retiredvetHere I thought it was the NVA and VietCong who killed 58,000 Americans in Vietnam? You're telling me this rifle did all that slaughter by its own accord? You do realize that American soldiers brought back German rifles from WW2, Chinese rifles from the Korean war and AK rifles from the Vietnam war, right?
Just think of the guilt Ford, Chrysler, Government Motors, Toyota, Honda, etc must feel for the millions of Americans killed in the 100+ years of the automobile!
Guns rule - or nowadays weapons rule. Is a drone against a 50 caliber a fair fight?
there are many other amendments though. please stand up for more than just one.
@GNTLwarrior Actually, by standing up for the 2nd, we are standing up for all of them.
@HenryBowman so the "new" black panthers who had guns at polling stations are better americans than you by that standard.
@GNTLwarrior Some gun control bills violate the 4th Amendment (unlawful search and seizure) by allowing LE to come into your home without a warrant to search your home for guns. Both the Washington State and Oregon bills have this clause in the wording of the bill.
@scoreboard @GNTLwarrior Courts have already ruled that if you live in a Motor Home it is a vehicle and not a home so the cops can search it. Damn shame next it will be mobile homes in mobile home parks, then any mobile home anywhere, then apartments as you don't "own" them then it will be your house. Stop the government before it's too late.
@GNTLwarrior Start attacking some of the others then we will talk.
@Jeepers I'm not attacking it. don't be so sensitive.
The simple, true and undeniable fact is that more people are murdered by their own governments than by any other assailant or group of assailants. Those who say it cannot happen here have never studied the outlook and attitude of the federal agents outside of Mt Carmel before 83 people were immolated. At Wounded Knee almost 300 Native Americans were massacred after turning over their firearms. In 1932 US Army veterans were fired upon and forcibly removed from Washington by the US Army. Vicky Weaver was holding her infant son in her own home when Lon Horiuchi of the FBI shot her and nearly decapitated her. The US government paid Randy Weaver a large sum of money for her wrongful death.
If mankind is to remain free there must be at least one nation where the government cannot overthrow the people. The people must remain sufficiently well armed to be able to throw off the shackles of tyranny for once all governments have all of the power then it is only a matter of time before tyranny rears it's ugly head and no common man shall ever again taste liberty before he dies. Â
Will there be unnecessary deaths and injuries from improper use of privately owned firearms? Without a doubt. This is the real world after all. Would highly restrictive gun control mitigate these events? No. While folks like to juxtapose different countries, different laws and different rates of gun crime the unassailable fact is that no nation that went from unrestricted ownership of firearms to a tightly controlled or virtual outlawing of firearms ownership ever saw anything other than a large increase in the rate of gun crime. Criminals and criminal governments do not obey the law.
@Nd2fixyourbrainDon't forget Kent State University where  National Guard open fired on citizen protesters.
@Nd2fixyourbrain"Criminals and criminal governments do not obey the law."
What's the difference?
@Nd2fixyourbrain Native Americans were treated like crap before Wounded Knee.Â
@GNTLwarrior @Nd2fixyourbrain And treated like crap after. Are natives who live and work on the reservation required to pay taxes yet?
@Bert @GNTLwarrior @Nd2fixyourbrain Why should they? It's a parcel of what they used to have. The government did all they can to kill the spirit of the indigineous people of this continent. It was perpetrated by the people who "founded" this country. btw, the "founding fathers" stole the constitution from the iriquois.
@Nd2fixyourbrain That's what I have been saying. Guns don't kill people. The government does.
stanley, people like you need to be locked up!  its only a matter of time! i feel sorry for your neighbors!
@john Who you talking about?
@TreeWizard Stanley of course. I agree, we need to lock up Stanley, and if you don't know which one... lock them all up.
@JTesla @TreeWizard Stanley took his Jurb.
Do i only imagine those who  not happy with guns themselves & also do not want you to have one either, are inevitably the very same "dont like abortion dont have one" hipocrites?
@Ramona Don't like people having opinions, then don't have one.
Better?
I wonder what he's compensating for......
@trololol If you've got a point, some rational thought, a valid opinion, by all means, let the forum know.  No redeeming qualities identified yet....just a mindless little liberal troll.  Too easy....
@'CouvGuy @trololol Trololol is a pretty alright guy.
@trololol Why don't you say what's on your mind, and then explain why you're thinking about it.
Just returning from NYC has given me a new understanding, visiting WTC memorial where my friends were taken...I was constantly reminded of the fantastic country we are, from the cab drivers, baristas, bus drivers, who all "gifted us" from the kindness at our hotel in Times square, the police helping us with direction...not an open carry state, but civilized in every sense of the word, at breakfast we visited with people from Europe who have 50 years of peace, this will be difficult to transition, but we will, as we are a place people migrate to from all over the world and we are better for it, we will be better for it when the 2ond amendment is far more restrictive, and our streets and communities will reflect it, it is time to join the rest of the civilized world and for the paranoid, we have no balm for your nervous condition, those of us who trust our country, and pledge to it, feel our country moving forward toward peace.
@Social Glimpse Tell it to John Lennon, oh wait, never mind.
@Social Glimpse Yes, Europe has been peaceful since 1945. One of the reasons, that helped that peacefulness was the U.S. taxpayer helping rebuild Europe after the war. Another, reason was the U.S. forces and U.S. nuclear umbrella during the Cold War. Europe could afford to be peaceful.
Now, Europe is faced with a new problem. The problem of uncontrolled immigration.
Your idyllic view is laced with a bit of tourist fantasy without a dose of reality.
@Social Glimpse Let me remind you, Social Glimpse - one of the things that make America great is our Constitution, which guarantees certain rights to all people in this country. When you start restricting ANY of those rights in the way you appear to want to have the Second Amendment restricted, it paves the way to the people having no rights whatsoever.
As for Europe having "50 years of peace", in what world are you living? Have you forgotten about things like the Bosnian War in the 1990s? How about the Georgia-Russia war? I could go on but . . .
Do you honestly believe that criminals will obey ANY gun laws? Restrictions on the Second Amendment will only serve to weaken the ability of the people to defend themselves against those who would do them harm.
@Social Glimpse if you like the way those places are maybe you should move there. You can come back when you realize you've been lied to.
@Social Glimpse "we will be better for it when the 2ond amendment"
According to you it will be better when you make criminals and felons out of millions of veterans and law-abiding citizens who have harmed no one, for not giving their property to the government.  And by making criminals out of them you will have made enemies out of them, and all of us who support them.
I've had it with you people. If you like Europe so f----g much, MOVE THERE.  (Guess: Immigration in Europe is a lot tighter than America.)
@Playanekes @Social Glimpse why don't you go back to the south where your white sheets and racist view mesh? "you all" only now affirmed the the 13th amendment, sure would find more in common with your bubba pals.
@Social Glimpse As you say,"we are a place people migrate to from all over the world and we are better for it." Why,then, would European citizens want to migrate away from their "peaceful" countries,especially to the U.S., where individual rights include gun rights? Do you think it's possible they come here because they know the European socialist/welfare system has long been moving toward the brink of financial collapse? Could it be Europe's burgeoning migration policies, which have allowed in large populations of people who prefer to "colonize" in their host country, not to blend in with European / western culture? Freedom, and our individual gun rights are just a couple of things which remind me what a fantastic country we live in.
@Social GlimpseDerrick Bird, Michael Robert Ryan, Ãric Borel, Friedrich Heinz Leibacher, Christian Dornier, Anders Behring Breivik, Oh and maybe look up the 1972 Munich Massacre If you would like more I can type them for you. Also Last time I looked several European countries where involved in Iraq and Afghanistan with us.Â
@Social Glimpse If you don't like your rights as an American citizen you are free to move to a country that will take those rights away from you.Â
@Social Glimpse Thats rather delusional. Sure I wish the whole world is at peace with freedom to come and go anywhere, anyplace, anytime.. but its not happening yet. The phsyco's run rampent, criminals still kill regardless of the laws. And thats the reality.. no matter what you pass for laws or how "peaceful" you try to make it, there will always be bad guy's! I prefer to keep my feet on the ground, and my head out of the clouds thank you very much!
@Social Glimpse Define 'peace'.
Oh, and Europe sounds like an idyllic place. Why would you want to stay in this country?
@Social Glimpse Sorry but America is NOT like the "rest of the world" and I for one am darn happy about that.
I don't want our beloved FREE country to become "like the rest of the world." Â Thanks anyway.Â
@Social Glimpse That sounds really nice.  Gee, if we only had laws against rape, murder, assault, robbery, all our problems would be solved and we could live in peace and harmony forever.  Tell me again how criminals follow laws, and explain to me slowly how more laws will make any difference in violent crime when we don't enforce nor prosecute the laws on the books now...??
...and, 50 years of peace? Â European countries lead the world in violent crime. Â What were you guys smoking for breakfast...??
@'CouvGuy I know the father of a college student, a young man who was lured into some sketchy part of Paris by some new friends, and beaten to death.
It's freakin' hilarious to hear some tourist tell you how nice and pleasant Times Square is, like there's no crime, poverty, prostitution, violence... It's like standing on a balcony on Bourbon Street and saying the everybody in New Orleans are white girls with nice t--s.