Bill expands teens' access to professional help without parents' OK
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SALEM, Ore. – Teenagers who are in trouble and don't want to ask their parents for help with addictions and mental health issues can turn to certain professionals without their parents' consent, but the list does not include counselors and therapists.
Senate Bill 491 would allow licensed professional counselors and marriage and family therapists to treat teens age 14 and older without their parents' consent.
Right now those teenagers can turn to a licensed doctor, psychologist, nurse practitioner or clinical social worker without their parents’ approval. Counselors and therapists in private practice right now have to turn the same teen away.
In some cases, teenagers either fear their parents or their parents are preventing them from getting help.
"In a number of cases, my teen clients struggling with addiction were being enabled in their addiction by their own parents' substance use," Wendy Curtis, a licensed professional counselor, told lawmakers during a hearing.
Other teenagers may be struggling with anxiety, depression, and thoughts of suicide.
Curtis and Larry Conner, also a licensed professional, testified before lawmakers Thursday that suicide is the leading cause of death among Oregonians ages 10 to 24.
They quoted a report from 2007 that says nearly one out of every 12 eighth-grade students and one out of 16 eleventh-graders reported attempting suicide within the previous 12 months.
"If the situation is such that they can't get permission, a teenager in crisis is not someone who is going to necessarily to be able to go out and proactively seek care," Conner said during an interview. "They are going to go and ask one person and if they get turned away they're going to say, 'Why is it that nobody cares about me?'"
Supporters say the bill is especially important to teens in rural areas where access to mental health care professionals is more limited.
After passing out of the Senate committee on Health Care and Human Services on Thursday, Senate Bill 491 will now be voted on by the entire Senate.
Why are the kids depressed? Perhaps because they think that the "norm" with the other kids is body modification, face jewelry, neck tats, dressing for failure, etc. Even when parents do everything right and give their kid every shot at home, every day they throw them into the mosh pit called public schools. There they are surrounded and inluenced by lots of other poorly raised kids who flock together according to poor decision making ability. Many of the parents of these kids were raised in this environment and they feel that there's nothing wrong with little Johnnie or Joanie expressing themselves by looking like a freak show.
There's something to be siad about private schools and how they mandate uniforms. That doesn't solve everything but it instills uniformity and a level of self respect that they won't get in public schools.Â
This is OK, but don't let them use tanning beds!
WHAT IS WRONG WITH OREGON!
 Any therapist (medical professional, religiously trained, what have you) who has any sort of an ethical base will not touch children with a 10 foot pole under this new law. Why? Regardless of the rights OR lawmakers believe that children should have--they are placing a lot of medical professionals in the position of having to utilize their malpractice insurance the first time a child commits suicide, or ODs on a substance, or one of any other awful potential outcomes, and it comes to the parents' attention their child was being seen without their knowledge. Therapists tend to not like to have to defend themselves in court against those sorts of allegations. If children are identified as being so high risk that their parents are enabling their addictions, or forcibly preventing their child from seeking counseling, then the child should be removed from the home. Â
Extenuating circumstances like that aside, mental health practitioners also realize the critical role that parents and other support units in the child's life play. What is the point of treating an individual for depression or other mental illness if no one is there to observe behavior and instigate intervention when the individual slides backwards from baseline? Also, the fact stands: Teens are wonky. Adolescence and young adulthood are filled with many critical learning experiences that elicit emotion and cause angst and drama. Many of those are from parents guiding, implementing rules and boundaries, and teenagers don't like that. It makes absolutely no sense for them to slink off to see someone and whine and cry about their troubles, if there is no positive dialogue established with the parents and other influential people in their lives. These kinds of articles really make me consider leaving OR. It seems like anyone with any sort of power or authority has taken complete leave of common sense, and obviously were lacking boundaries and etiquette themselves as children.
Anyone besides me wonder why the government works so hard to enable kids from having to have a relationship with their parents?
Why is it, that instead of creating an atmosphere that would improve the parents/child relationship, you instead create ways to remove the parent from the picture?
@Owt_Raged You know, rather than saying the "government" you might just take a look at who is bringing the bill to the table in the first place.  It isn't the government.  It is the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES you all have decided, by the vote of the people, to put into office to make these decisions.
Don't like the decisions? Â Get rid of the representatives and tell the others your feelings... Â B*tching here will do little good.
I don't see very many useful comments here. Â If you are a "good parent" then your kids would feel comfortable coming and talking to you about their problems first. Â In which case, this bill has nothing to do with you. Â This only pertains to those that have kids that don't feel comfortable coming to their parents for help. Â Obviously, No one that comments here need be concerned.
@darren vandervort I'm glad you were such a great child and had great parents growing up.  Consider yourself very fortunate.
I know my parents were phenomenal. Â They were supportive and caring and would give anything they could to make me the best person I could be. Â And my dad was my protector -- truly, my knight in shining armor. Â I saw how devastated he was when I was home alone and my house was broken into by at least two men and that he wasn't there to protect me. Â I saw his heart break and I vowed to never let that happen again.
As a result, I was a good kid. Â I didn't want to let them down or disappoint them.
However, I was sexually assaulted by two different groups and never told them or any other adult. Â I was afraid my dad would get arrested for taking the situation into his own hands. Â My parents died not ever knowing these stories and very few people know the truth.
So, while I *could* tell my parents anything, I didn't want to tell them the bad things because I didn't want to hurt or disappoint them. Â I had a great relationship with most of my teachers, too, because I was the good student. Â I couldn't tell them, either. Â
I figured, at best, I was old enough to deal with the problem. Â I wasn't. Â And I know I'm not the only one who has had stories like mine. Â And now I'm left to deal with the consequences.
@CTWUÂ @darren vandervortÂ
I'm so very sorry you had to experience something so horrific! It's awful that you couldn't turn to them for support but I understand why you felt you couldn't.. Thank you very much for sharing that.. <3
I hope that you've received help through counseling and/or support groups and whatever other means you feel comfortable with.
Again, my heart goes out to you, Â I know I'm a stranger but I really mean it! May your heart & soul heal from that terrible trauma both physical and emotional. Perhaps one day (if not already) you'll be a blessing to somebody else that needs support & healing.
Your posts sound full of strength and confidence so you must be working through this or have worked through it. That is better than a trial, it's better than a conviction, it's the BEST revenge! Surviving and THRIVING in spite of their assualt. Surviving and thriving!Â
I'll say a special prayer for you. <3
@darren vandervort - looking for useful comments here? That is funnier than the beaver story. Ha Ha Ha
Its been my experience after raising daughters, that the real problems begin when they start seeing state counselors or counselors sanctioned by the state.
Get out of our personal lives, where do these people come from?
Why not just take all kids. Put them all into state care. Obviously they know what's best for each and every child. Lobotomize the kids and fill them with good socialist values and see to it they are all loyal to an omnipotent government and its Great Leader. Teach them that they are not responsible for there own action or inaction. Whatever your woes, it's someone else keeping you down.
Come to think of it , we're not that far off now.
I can understand why some kids should have help available, mainly if there is drug abuse or physical abuse in their family. Â But, if that is the case, they shouldn't be in the home in the first place. Â We never had problems like this when our schools were for teaching instead of babysitting. Â This sounds like just another way to suck up taxpayer's money to pay for councilors, shrinks, etc. Â that wouldn't have jobs otherwise.
Forcing private practice to accept the masses. No socialism here
Once a kid is labeled "MENTALLY ILL" they can't enter the military, and thousands of other civilian jobs are FOREVER off-limits...BY LAW!
@August100 Do you actually know what it takes to label someone "mentally ill" to where it will follow you? It takes a court order from a judge to do that. Â
@hokeywolf @August100 It depends on where the information comes from and why.  Employers frequently have access to medical history files and get at least statistical data from insurance providers.  It's not too difficult to find out who is taking or has taken what and why.  That is, at least, a portion that follows you.  Some employers even have the legal right to ask and you can be fired, no questions asked, if you lie or mislead the employer.
@CTWU @hokeywolf @August100Â
Exactly!Â
@hokeywolf actually for the Military all it takes is a mention of depression or a Rx for an anti depressant in your records.
@hokeywolf @August100 "Do you actually know what it takes to label someone "mentally ill" to where it will follow you? It takes a court order from a judge to do that. "
It does NOT! Dang you keep making statements that are NOT factual.
My mom is Bi-polar and has been for decades. She has been diagnosed by a psychiatrist not just a therapist. Just like medical doctors there is a database for the psychiatric community.Â
When a person has been hospitalized and diagnosed with a mental illness that is on record. When a person is diagnosed with cancer, there is a record of it. They have records for specific reasons, insurance, future issues such as a mentally ill person applying to purchase a handgun or committing a crime. Â
PLEASE do some research before you post such things, you are misleading people.Â
@Owt_Raged Marketing is now the biggest portion of big pharmas budget (my sis is a chief scientist at one and she tells me about it all the time). Once they were allowed to market to the masses sales went through the roof. Personally I think it should be disallowed but we know who's pockets they put their money into.
They create consumption by generating fear through add campaigns.
@deejm2112 When I see an add on TV for a drug to counteract a natural age related progression of a person, I have no doubt that the drug companies are behind it. It's not health care, it's sick care. Especially when the side effects are worse than whatever symptom the drug is supposed to mask.
My Mom & Dad had great mental health advise : "Get over it."Â Worked every time! ;-)
@Owt_Raged @deejm2112 Better living through chemistry I say...
In all honesty I agree with you somewhat but the medical industry has also expanded a great number conditions and diagnosis that fit a larger portion of the population. Wouldn't surprise me if the drug companies had their dirty hands in there but regardless, it leads to a larger medicated population.
@deejm2112 or perhaps their standards are fine and people need to quit turning to drugs for every little thing that goes wrong in their life.
@Owt_Raged @hokeywolf That would be about 90% of teens, they'll need to update the standards or there will be no military.
In Victoria BC, a 19 year can drink alcoholic beverages responsibly & legally and that drinking is NO BIG DEAL, but 19 year old drinking alcoholic beverages in Portland & GETTING CAUGHT doing so....will get him DIAGNOSED FOR LIFE as a MENTALLY ILL "ALCOHOLIC" needing treatment & lifetime attendance to 12-Step religious AA meetings....
@August100Â And, on this note, I disagree. Â Being caught once or twice is not enough to get you labeled as an alcoholic. Â Your actions, prior history, and even social upbringing (and parenting) are all factors in determining how you are legally reprimanded. Â If you do manage to have the outcome you are describing, you sure have a sh*tty attorney or you might have a real problem with drinking, drug ab/use or, even, a true recognizable mental health disorder (because they are out there and you'd have to agree about that).
@CTWUÂ @August100Â "true recognizable mental health disorder (because they are out there and you'd have to agree about that)."
Absolutely... I agree BUT it is extremely rare for mental illness to arise before the late twenties early thirties. I would be highly suspect of any "doctor" that diagnosed a teen as mentally ill. They aren't fully cooked yet-Â
ALL teens are somewhat mentally ill.. Their hormones are all messed up and they haven't fully developed the far-sight of consequences due to actions, impulse control etc... They have the Me, me, me syndrome too.Â
I'm not saying that NO TEEN is truly mentally ill- just that it's very rare. These "doctors' today want to put every kid into a little box and if they don't conform DRUG 'EM til they do.Â
@CTWUÂ @cwpholderÂ
**Nodding emphatically** Â Yep right on target!Â
@cwpholder Yes and no.  Many of the mental illnesses are actually showing up in the early 20s (some research seems to suggest that the earlier onset is brought about by drug ab/use or family predisposition) like true schizophrenia.  There are other impairments (like traumatic brian injuries, mini-strokes, concussions, etc. that can also mimic some mental health disorders) that also need to clearly be ruled out -- especially before starting any type of medication.
And, yeah, I'd solidly say that, if you asked an anonymous group of teens if they'd ever been depressed and/or suicidal and 100% better say yes or they're lying to you.  If one of them is having a bad day, or if they had a fight with a family member, blended family member, teacher, boyfriend/girlfriend and on and on, they'd be more willing to say they have an issue and need help.  Do they need drugs?  99% of them probably don't.  The other 1% will probably be misdiagnosed at least once until the proper diagnosis and treatment (which may or may not include drugs) is started.
The problem with true mental health issues is there is stil no concrete black or white test to determine which disorder(s) someone might be suffering from (or faking).
Similarly, a primary care doc is not the best person to treat a serious mental health disorder or order psychotropic medications unless they have additional training. Â Personally, I'd much rather see the true diagnosis for a valid mental health disorder coming from a psychiatrist (and a second or third opinion, if needed) who can then outline a course of treatment.
On the other hand, the teen angst "I'm depressed; nobody loves me" phase the vast majority of us have gone through, would be perfectly treated by talk therapy. Â And there are kids who live in abusive situations. Â Having a positive outlet for them to be open and honest about their situation is critical. Â At least, in the past, this was served by school guidance counselors. Â Maybe the schools need more of these available -- separating them into college/career counselors and more of a counselor/therapist. Â Ultimately, the cost of paying the additional salaries for these people would save on fraudulent diagnoses and unpaid treatment bills forwarded on to taxpayers.
As I said before, I'm concerned that these third party people might result in kids being placed on psych holds without ever notifying the parents or asking for their opinion. Â Similarly, they could be permanently removed from the family home and placed in shelter care or foster care or we'd have to create yet another "category" for their care.
@cwpholder You're right on. A lot of our "mental illness" in youngsters is very definitely programmed by society. Especially a society with long school hours, very little recess or physical activity of any sort, and feeding our kids full of high calorie, nutrition poor food and then expecting them to sit still and be attentive all day, every day. As you said, if they don't conform, drugs are prescribed. It's awful. Schools are expected to be full of automatons in this day and age, not dynamic, curious, energetic children.
I think the generally accepted "brain maturation" age for young adults is currently 23-25, on the low end.Â
The state is trying to take away more control away from the parents. Â That is why the kids are so messed up today.
@sortbait Kids are messed up today because of their insane parents.
And who is going to pay for the private practice people? Is that stated anywhere in the bill? Or is the bill just going to start coming to the parents, and they have to pay for it out of pocket?
@washcomom That would be my guess, parents would pay for it.  But even if the child doesn't have coverage under a parent's insurance, perhaps the child would qualify for coverage under SCHIP.  To be honest, I don't care who pays for it if it means the kid gets necessary help. Â
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@Dr. Rawdog Were you that teen that never did anything their parent's told them not to do or were you just that teen that never got caught doing it?
@Dr. Rawdog Wow, I'm sure all the sh*tty parents are going to read your post and immediately change their ways. Rawdog, I do believe you have just saved society.
And the crowd raws!
"If the situation is such that they can't get permission, a teenager in crisis is not someone who is going to necessarily to be able to go out and proactively seek care," Conner said during an interview. "They are going to go and ask one person and if they get turned away they're going to say, 'Why is it that nobody cares about me?'"
Well, that's well and fine, but who is going to be responsible for paying for these counselors and therapists? Is a bill for payment going to show up in the mail for $50.00 hr. and up? Or are the counselors and therapists doing this for free. I don't know any 14, 15, 16 yr old kids that can afford this. And I find this interesting that the Government is stepping in between, and taking the place of families. And making decisions for our children, instead of their family. And funny that there isn't a damn thing YOU can do about it. This is what happens when you allow the gov. to raise your kids in school, then they continue to take over in other areas of your life. Glad I raised my children myself.
We, as parents and citizens, only have ourselves to blame for this. Over the decades, we have handed our duty as parents over to the government. Generation after generation has become more and more self-centered. We are too busy fulfilling our own wants and desires and have neglected our duty as parents and good citizens. We have traded our liberty and opportunities in this great nation for creature comforts. Welcome to the collective.
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@August100  OMG! Run for the hills! August is shouting!
Once the School Psycho-Wackos label these kids "CRAZY, ADDICTED, and ALCOHOLICS"...FOR LIFE...they send that information to the BRADY GUN DATABASE that will FOREVER ban them from owning guns.
KIDS BEWARE:Â
Once the Psycho-Wackos labels you "CRAZY, ADDICTED, and ALCOHOLIC"...it's FOR LIFE in your medical records and will follow you until you die. They release your medical records to EVERY DATABASE in the world!
BEING OFFICIALLY "CRAZY, ADDICTED, and ALCOHOLIC" is a valid & legal reason to DENY YOU thousands of housing, living, & employment opportunities....
@August100Â Strangely, I find myself almost agreeing with you this time.
Once you are labeled, the label remains despite any effort on your part to have it removed or changed - even false diagnoses.
If the parents Are the problem I understand..
But when I told my 14 year old daughter Not to go outside...
And after she ran away to be with her boyfriend ( mexican gang member) she was found at jubitz truck stop a week later dirty and drugged up..
When we got to he hospital they said " we don't have to tell you anything if you want to know ask her"
Oh and here is the bill ( no description of services ;ie rape kit)
Well needless to say my wife went off on them (but she is my baby)
What do you do??Â
@uknow2Â i can totally relate as I went though it with my step daughter. She was 15 and would not follow any house rule...dating a guy that was 21, she would sneak out her bedroom window at midnight...I would hide in the yard to chance the dude showing up to get her...so she would then leave at 2am...gone for days..show up as if nothing was wrong...would call the police to go looking for her, took her to a mental health look down for five days, did rewards and punishments....nothing would stop her from doing exactly whatever she wanted to do. She didn't like living at home, so a neighborhood friend's mother took her in for three+ years and she never called, checked in, visited, nothing...did the school care? she got to do what she wanted to do with no parenting supervision or support.
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@Dr. Rawdog @uknow2 Let's give our kids over to the doc here, as he knows how to "parent better" than the rest of us who have struggled with kids who resist our parenting skills. Certainly HE has the answer to EVERYTHING.
@uknow2Â I'd properly ship her off to one of those strict prison-like schools to straighten her out.
@uknow2Â You posed the scenario, you answer it.
@Benjamin Schniffle @uknow2 You call it scenario... I call it our family history..
I don't mind them being able to go, but it's only acceptable if it requires the parents to be notified at some (reasonable) point.
Makes it pretty darn hard to parent when the government gives a child permission and the ability to deceive and sneak around behind their parent's back.
I think I understand where this bill is coming from and, while I appreciate it, I can't help but wonder how the expenses of these treatments will be covered. Â Most teens don't carry their medical insurance cards with them. Â And the therapists are going to want their money. Â Eventually the parents will receive the bills and/or Explanation of Benefits Statements thus knowing "something" is going on.
In the offchance that the therapist also might think the child needs to be put on a psych hold, who or when will the parent be told (especially if it is going to last longer than 72 hours) or be asked about how they want to proceed for treatment purposes?
I hope there will be some way of letting kids know (a) who is covered by their insurance policy and (b) who is reputable out there to go see in this capacity.