CRC toll protesters forced to move over safety concerns
»Play Video
VANCOUVER, Wash. – Protesters demonstrating against plans for a toll to pay for a new Interstate 5 Bridge have been given the boot by the Washington Department of Transportation.
One of the reasons they got in trouble was for standing along the freeway onramp. Earlier this week the protesters were along the north and south ends of the Interstate Bridge, but the signs they were using were also a problem.
Protesters held large, orange signs made to look like construction area warning signs but that carried the anti-toll message.
Demonstrators also wore vests and hardhats like construction workers do.
It was all to promote a Clark County Commission candidate opposed to the current plan for the Columbia River Crossing project. But Washington's department of transportation told the protesters to move because they were in a dangerous area, and the signs could confuse drivers.
"If they were displaying them, and they were visible from the state highway, because they look like traffic devices – official traffic control signs – that again is a concern," said WSDOT spokeswoman Abbi Russell.
Even though they had to move, protesters say they don't plan to give up.
"We intend at this time to continue getting that message out with those same signs just in areas where traffic is going to be getting on the freeway or has recently gotten off the freeway, but not actually be standing on the onramp," said political activist Christian Berrigan.
Protest organizers feel the disclaimer on the signs, which reads this is "not an official sign... yet" should be enough to let drivers know the signs are not traffic control devices.
The activists say they'll have to come up with a different way to protest toll plans on the Oregon side of the bridge, because Oregon law clearly bans signs of any kind. Washington law only bans signs “likely to be mistaken” as traffic control devices. So protesters plan to keep using the signs on the Washington side of the Columbia River.
According to the 2009 Columbia River tolling study, tolls totaling over $8 for a round trip over the new bridge are a worst-case scenario. The lowest tolls might be, according to a different funding plan, just over $4 per round trip.
So why aren't they booting all the bums...oh, excuse me, I mean "homeless persons", from these ramps?
Two things that voters here should keep in mind:
1) taxes and fees here routinely start out as "temporary" and then end up permanent
2) government estimates of what a tax or fee will be almost always end up much higher
Please keep our bridges toll-free. That's what taxes are for.
People are funny -- the loudest voices are against any new bridge or at least vehemently against tolls. And yet, once the new bridge is built (it's only a matter of time!) and tolls are emplaced, these same folks will go so far out of their way to take the Glenn Jackson or the Longview bridges to avoid tolls they will end up paying twice as much in extra fuel and mileage
 @Gravity Works! The price for a two way trip is going to be $16.56 so I doubt that the cost of the extra gas will be twice that much which will be $33.12
 @BarbWire Been from Vancouver to Longview to Portland lately?
I grew up & lived as an adult commuter in the New York metropolitan area. Toll stations all over the place.
Â
Tolls greatly increase & exacerbate traffic jams -- particularly during commuter hours -- wasted gasoline, exhaust fumes, road rage incidents (including killings), etc. Eventually, several tolls were eliminated -- even though the Tax & Spend folks hated to give up the revenue -- just to reduce the concomitant problems.Â
Â
Also, tolls that are intended to be temporary inevitably are extended indefinitely for other projects... the pigs feeding at the trough have no intention of giving up the source of their swill.
 @BeefboneÂ
Â
Youâre comparing Oranges and tangerines.
Â
Tolls in the west have always been temporary. They pay back the bond that paid for the project, and then they go away (like tolls should).
Â
The tolls you are talking about, the ones found all over the east, are just another way to fill state/city coffers.
Â
Â
But I agree with you, I hate tolls but we need a new bridge and I think the people who use it should be the ones who help pay to build it.
Â
 @Beefbone @Gravity Works!Â
No I have not, is there a tool there? I will quickly look that up.
Â
It does have a toll. Like $1.00 per car. But this bridge is privately owned. It is Owned by Cascade locks. And the current toll is for work done on the bridge to repair the decking, paint and ironically a new toll canopy lol.
Â
http://www.portofcascadelocks.org/bridge.htm
Â
There does seem to be no "end" tot he tolls on that bridge. But years ago when it was public I crossed it and it was free.
Â
Talk to the owners about selling it back to the public or otherwise lifting the toll.
Â
 @Repoman Afraid I don't quite get your intended message, here.  You say, "Tolls in the west have always been temporary. They pay back the bond that paid for the project, and then they go away (like tolls should)."  Yes, in an ideal world, this would be true.
Â
Hmmm -- Been across the Bridge of the Gods recently, have you?
 @Beefbone I would note that modern toll booths allow users to move through at a normal speed using systems like EZPass or Washington's "Good to Go"
New bridge does not solve the traffic issues to any desirable extent.
They need a new design and they need to fix the bottleneck of I5 south of the span.
And do it with no toll
 @Jack_Bauer We need a third bridge.
Absolutely. Just do it for free. And heck, if we do it for free, we can cut taxes, too.
 @Mechanic It is not for free We the Taxpayers pay for it and then they want tolls to line their pockets
Â
Yes I live in Washington and Yes I work in Oregon..Yes I pay Oregon State Tax and Yes I pay Washington sale tax as well....I say Just build the damn thing, what difference does it make,  We can sit here and vote and bash one another all we want but you know in the end if they want it done it will be done........And why is it that  Oregon always bash Washington?  Any story that I have read over the past few years always ends up in a turf war? Is it really that bad?
 @LynneBÂ
Â
You hear âOregon bash Washingtonâ more where you live because you get more Oregon broadcasting than Washington. Live in the Tri-City area, Pullman, anywhere in/near SeaTac and you will hear the reverse.
Â
Oregon and Washington are siblings. We always squabble.
Â
Â
Â
 @Repoman  @LynneB At least those of us who act like kids
 @LynneB Blame "Mayor"/dictator Sam Adams. He doesn't understand the term "Interstate" bridge. He thinks it's "Enter City" bridge.Â
Â
I'm ready to move beyond this stupid bridge game. Poker should be the next game played. Who can bluff the best?
I say build a new bridge with a toll, but leave the old bridge. Â If some people don't want to pay, let 'em sit in traffic.
I won't go over the bridge with a toll but I will gladly vote against those jerks with those signs just for claiming "the disclaimer should be enough".
Make the tolls $10.00 per round trip! Force the users to pay!
Toll bridges are are double dip taxation and roadblocks to freedom... Charge to go into washington... FU washington ,I wont be going over your FEE bridge.
I just watched the video package and they made the claim again that we were wearing hardhats??? Â Seriously -- that is completely made up out of thin air. Â Nobody asked, and the word 'hardhat' was never even uttered in any question or any interview. Â That is just downright weird. Â Eric at the Columbian did phenomenally accurate reporting of this event in his article:Â http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/oct/23/toll-signs-attract-attention-ire/ his quotes attributed to me were very precise, and his attention to detail without embellishment was commendable. I'm happy to accept any criticism which is honest and/or deserved. Â This hardhat thing seems like it was designed to fit a pre-determined narrative? Â Sheesh -- disappointing.
 @Christian Berrigan Well if we throw the hard hat comment out, the rest of your tactics are questionable at best. Dave Madore is a fool if he thinks anyone believes he has a way to guarantee no tolls. The one sign says prepare to pay tolls... or vote Madore. What response will you have if he wins and we still pay tolls? This is why people are getting fed up with politicians. They can say or advertise irresponsibly with just enough deniability to claim that they have integrity. He's lying and will possibly win and will probably get away with it.
I don't have a problem with the protesters. They shouldn't be using signage that looks like construction signs. Modern drivers are distracted enough. We need a new bridge Traffic backs up all through town. Most of it is Vantucky people. I seldom use the I5 bridge. So it makes sense they pay their fair share. I only hope they build a bridge that doesn't have to be raised and has more lanes. Then they can have a bike lane.
NOBODY wore hardhats EVER. Â That is a complete fabrication invented out of thin air. Â Very disappointed in that report. Â The vests were for everyone's safety, not to try to imitate a worker. Â When we were in Vancouver we put Madore bumper stickers on necklaces so the bumper stickers were on our chests and on our backs.
Four things that we don't need a new bridges across the Columbia River. 1. Take C-Tran 2. Carpool 3. Ride your bike and 4. Move to Oregon side if you work in Oregon and Washington side if you work in Washington.  These will solve our traffic problem between Washington and Oregon.  I have enough of seeing so many lazy single occupied vehicle with 3 or more empty seats using our damn freeways. To men, I don't care about your stupid Wall Street Journal and, to women, I don't care about your stupid long make ups to make your commute time shorter. If you have many issues with your kids, tough!   Anyone in Multnomah County residents who will be interested to file petition before we can vote down any new bridges across the Columbia River?  I will be happy to sign the petition.Â
 @Michael R. Newton You are a bit narrow minded aren't you?  I am guessing you are young and with no kids and never really faced any of the challenges that grown-ups and parents face daily.  As for your choices you give.  1. I looked into the bus/max option and it would take 2.5 to 3 hours for one way and being a busy person that has other commitments (my own schooling and family) that was not an option.  2. I actually do carpool with my husband who does work in Oregon as well (pays 9% as well).  I drop him off and then I go to my work, it adds about 20 minutes to my commute but it saves us money in gas, but not in taxes paid.  3. Look at number 1. 4. I did live in Oregon, it was the most expensive and miserable 5 years of my life. Â
 @dandalion I read your other post and found out that you lived in Washington and work in Oregon. I don't give your F about your whining in traffic every day. That's your problem.Â
 @Michael R. Newton First of all I never complained about the traffic... I am just voicing my opinion about the tolls.  Second... chill out, you have gone on the defense quite viciously and makes me question your ability to have a spirited debate.Â
 @Michael R. Newton Let me guess, you are another Omama supporter that believes he will give you free food, gas and pay your rent? Perhaps you are like the last guy that has forgotten Omama wants this bridge built - commerce rolls north, south, east & west and this bridge is too important for neutered guy's like you. Besides, we have to support the continued drug and weapons trade...
'Icarus' - You are beginning to sound like a bitter old-man that hates everything and an Omama supporter. Just keep in mind that Omama wants this bridge built - commerce and growth depend on it and we are just serfs in the overall scheme of things if you have not figured that out yet...
We dont need a new bridge across the river. Â Enough said.
No, why would we? I mean, the northbound span is only over 90 years old and NEVER meant for the loads it currently carries. And everyone knows that a DRAW BRIDGE on a major freeway is a great idea that we should just continue.
 @Harvey 1701 Madore is not against any bridge -- he is for a better bridge solution.  The light rail component multiplies the cost by 5 or 10, requires a shorter bridge which degrades the navigability of the river, and requires tolls to pay for the bridge.  The current plan does not reduce traffic.  A bridge without light rail would cost so much less that existing gas taxes would pay for it, we could have more lanes that would actually reduce traffic, and we would not have to build a bridge that is so much shorter than the Glenn Jackson that commerce and defense navigation will be compromised.  There are better bridge solutions than the CRC, and those solutions can be paid with the existing gas tax.  I have no problem with the fundamental principle of charging tolls, but if you're going to charge tolls then remove the portion of the gas tax that is already there for this purpose, and don't put in a light rail boondoggle that demands one bad design decision after another (both design and expense).  The question should be:  Whose pockets are being lined by this farce of a project?
 @Harvey 1701  @Christian Berrigan Harvey, we don't need light rail now and we won't need it 20 years from now. Houston TX had no light rail when I was there (4 million People) no problem. Denver is a lot bigger than Vancouver (a lot bigger) they did just fine without light rail.
 @Christian Berrigan Anyone who is against light rail is a shortsighted fool. This is the BEST time to bring this highly successful alternative mode of commuting into Vancouver. You think light rail is expensive now? If we wait another 20 years, it will be even more costly because planners will have to deal with 20 years worth of development. This city will only get bigger, and the sooner we start building to meet the needs of the future, the cheaper it will be.
The activists say they'll have to come up with a different way to protest toll plans on the Oregon side of the bridge, because Oregon law clearly bans signs of any kind.
What Political BS KATU... Aren't you at least a little sorry... The Oregon side has Panhandlers with signs all over the place...
 @gbudavid Yeah, what they were TRYING to say was that Oregon bans any sign that resemble a traffic sign and ORS does not have the exception of "if they could be mistaken for an actual traffic sign" which the Washington RCW has.  Methinks someone else may need a hardhat ;) Â
 @Christian Berrigan I wore a Hard Hat for a good part of my life.. KOIN Tower,US Bank Bldg Trojan just to name a few. I also went to school.. That is NOT what they said.
They said,quoting from the above article... Reporter:"The activists say they'll have to come up with a different way to protest toll plans on the Oregon side of the bridge, because Oregon law clearly bans signs of any kind."
Every citizen of Portland should demand that bridge be built by a bond that is paid by a toll. I would even advocate a toll on the other two bridges just to tax all the buzzards that commute from Vantucky.
Avoid paying Oregon Taxes from your Oregon Job then expect Oregon to pay for a bridge so you can retreat to your Vancouver abode.
Â
FU Vantucky.
@Icarus   YOU are an idiot
 @Icarus Oregon workers pay Oregon income tax.  Not sure what you mean by Vancouver residents avoiding paying taxes on their Oregon job.  That doesn't even make sense.  ???  You do know that WA residents who work in Oregon pay Oregon income tax, right???
 @Icarus You do realize that WA resident who work in OR pay OR income taxes, right?
Now where did they leave their common sense? Hanging out on a freeway on ramp...not a good idea. Holding signs that attempt to make them look official...not a good idea either.
Lucky they did not accidently get injured by an out of control vehicle
Out of control vehicle? Seriously? This was in front of a light-governed on ramp. The vehicles are going 5 miles an hour in line waiting for the light to turn red.
Typical right-wing nut jobs who want all the benefits without paying for any of them. There's nothing fiscally conservative about that. What a bunch of greedy, selfish whiners. You want a new bridge? You're going to have to pay for it like everyone else. Bridges cost money and we're not about to start charging everyone $2 a gallon for a road tax, so this is the next best thing. Use the bridge: you pay your way. Don't like it? Learn to swim.
 @Harvey 1701 Then as a Washington resident that works in Oregon I should be exempt from the 9% Oregon state income tax that I pay.  I do not use any other resources or services from Oregon except drive over the bridge.  I have been told for years that it was fair for me to pay that tax because I drove on the bridge. Â
Well for the money they have collected in the last 10 years from Washington residents that work in Oregon it would of paid the price for their new bridge! Â
 @dandalion  @Harvey 1701 Tough s**t dandalion! Oregon will not allow to exempt 9% of your tax. Pay up or move to Oregon side. Problems solved.
 @dandalion  @Harvey 1701 Tough s**t dandalion!
 @dandalion So, do you work right off the Oregon side of the bridge? If so, then I'd say you have a point. But, you likely use the freeway and all the other side streets to get to your job in Oregon. Thus, your argument is invalid. Furthermore, nobody FORCED you to get a job in Oregon. You made the CHOICE to live in Washington and work in Oregon. You made the choice knowing the benefits AND knowing the costs. You made your bed and now you have to sleep in it.
 @dandalion First of all, you're making a heck of an assumption about me. I live in Vancouver and I used to commute to Beaverton for almost 5 years because I chose to take a job there. It was MY choice to do so until I made a CHOICE to find another job. NO ONE is forcing you to live in Washington and work in Oregon. YOU MADE THAT CHOICE. If your company moved you around, then YOU MADE THE CHOICE to stay with that company. Again, if you don't like the toll, then choose not to work in Portland. Sounds pretty straightforward to me!
 @Harvey 1701 I have done both, worked under a mile over the bridge and worked 35 miles into Oregon.  As for choice most of it was not all mine, I cannot help it if my employer cannot find qualified personnel that live in Oregon to run their Oregon businesses.  I have started out in my own home state but because of the unqualified people in Oregon ran the business to the ground I had to go in and help fix it.  Yes, I did get compensated by my employer for the extra tax and drive and I never complained about it... until the talks of tolls... if you want the toll then as a Washington resident I should be exempt for your tax... you get to be tax free here its only fair.  If you want to keep your income tax that you get from me (unrepresented by the way) then no toll. Â
 @dandalion  @Harvey 1701 Oh please, Like you don't come over here to shop so you don't have to pay sales tax.Â
 @Techchefpdx    @Harvey 1701 Actually I don't make any special trips to Oregon to purchase my taxable stuff.  I don't even plan any stops on my way to or from work.  The only time I do shop over in Oregon is either I couldn't find it here or we don't have our own store, like Ikea.  I don't even buy gas over there even when it is cheaper than here.Â
@Techchefpdx   Nope - avoid Oregon at all costs - too many psychotics down there
 Disagree Harvey. Roads are a "public" good.
Â
Best definition of a public good: consumption of the good (road) by one individual does not reduce availability of the good for consumption by others: and that no one can be effectively excluded from using the good.
Â
That road in front of your house. I can drive on that and get charged no toll. When the government starts charging you (toll) to use the road to your house, you'll change your tune about toll roads.
Â
 @guilty1 When the road in front of my house requires as much engineering and has as much traffic as the I-5 bridge, then I'll concede that you have a point.
 @Harvey 1701 I am not sure which post you responded to as I cannot find it even after I was redirected to the page and I am assuming you are talking about me willingly working in Oregon as a Washington resident.  If you read my whole response you will see that I stated that I didn't complain about paying Oregon income tax UNTIL this whole "let the commuters pay for the bridge with a toll" came up.  I remember the first time I worked in Oregon over 20 years ago I was told that it was fair for Oregon to take the tax because I USE THE BRIDGE... so if a toll is going to pay for this bridge then Oregon does not need Washington residents to pay Oregon Income tax. Â
Â
And yes I did assume you lived in Oregon by saying you get to shop tax free in Washington, so even though not you but all the other Oregon residents on here do.
 @guilty1 Please show me that study. Forgetting commuters, you must also take into account that the bridge is being built to carry a major interstate for travelers passing through Oregon and Washington. There is simply no logic to the comparison you made.
 @Harvey 1701Â
And thank you Harvey for partially conceding that I may have a point.
 @Harvey 1701Â
And I'll bet you that the bridge has a smaller cost when compared to usage costs (i.e. the amount of traffic on a daily basis vs costs).
Â
The bridge is actually cheaper when usage is taken into account.
 @guilty1Â
Â
Wrong....I live in Portland and have zero need for that bridge to Vantucky. Why should I pay for a bridge so all those buzzards can more easily commute to and from their tax haven. Talk about protecting our boarders? Why should Portland build a bridge for immigrant labor?
 @dandalion  @Icarus  @guilty1 You want to choose the mode of commuting that causes the most environmental pollution (oil drilling, carbon emissions etc), uses the most resources, causes the most congestion, requires the greatest amount of funding AND you want us all to reward you?  Take public transportation, carpool or bike or any combination of the above. Oregonians are already paying a substantial share of the cost of the bridge even if we rarely use it. Â
 @Icarus  @guilty1 guilty of improper word usage. Make that emigrant labor.
 @Icarus Wow how much of a moron can you be? Washington residents that work in oregon pay oregon sales tax! Â
Â
what I would love to see is Oregon residents that shop here STOP getting the exemption from paying sales tax!
I think it's a whole load of crap that oregonians get away with that.
 @guilty1  @Icarus I don't have that mentality at all. I think I SHOULD pay for it, because it is part of the public good (just like schools). However, I also think that tolls should be charged for those who use it. Tolls have always been a reasonable means to pay for major projects. The Astoria-Megler Bridge, the Lewis and Clark Bridge, the Bridge of the Gods, the Tacoma Narrows Bridges all had (or still have) tolls. Now, if you don't like the toll, I have another suggestion: take the new light rail line into Portland.
 @Icarus  @guilty1 What tax haven are you talking about?? As a Washington resident that works in Oregon I pay 9% in your Oregon Income tax... its a flat 9% and not based on income because I am not a resident of Oregon.  If and when ever you have a 'kicker' I am lucky to get any thing back, and if I do its a fraction of what I paid.  So don't sit there and say I am hiding from taxes... its more like OREGON residents doing the avoiding.Â
 @Icarus Read the message.
Â
The intent was that roads everywhere...the road in front of your house...is fair game for tolls. I don't use the road in front of your house....why should I pay for it?
Â
You have this "I don't use it, why should I pay for it" mentality. Look at your tax bill. You will see a school tax. You may or may not have children in the system, but you cannot "opt-out" from paying these taxes.