City floating idea of mandatory paid sick time for workers
PORTLAND, Ore. - Portland City Commissioners began taking public input Thursday on a proposal that would give city employees and those at private businesses mandatory paid sick time.
City Commissioner Amanda Fritz is behind the idea, which would give employees of the city and private companies up to 40 hours of sick time a year. Employees who work 240 hours a year - which is about 5 hours a week - would also qualify for some sick leave, so part-time workers would be included.
Businesses that have six or more employees would have to provide paid sick time off under the proposal. Businesses that give employees at least 40 hours of sick time off each year would not be required to give any additional time off.
Workers who testified before the City Council on Thursday said they are forced to choose between their health and their paycheck. And they said they often worry they will lose their jobs if they stay home sick.
Dozens of business owners showed up at City Hall as well. They said if the ordinance passes, they will not be able to handle the expense and might be forced to make other cuts.
Public input will be weighed from now through Feb. 27. The city will also be forming a task force to address any issues that might come up surrounding the proposal.
A council vote is expected on March 6 and those backing the plan hope the changes can take effect on Jan. 1, 2014. The city also hopes to lobby the state legislature to change state law.
this is a bill for the minimum wage "workers".. you know they ones -Â the sketchy ones that cant get a real career.
All righty more golf days....
I bet this Amanda Fritz calls in sick regularly. Â No on in their right mind would burden a small biz with this tax. Â yes its another form of tax. Â Any time you make someone to pay for something with nothing in return its a tax.Â
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 @Dr. Rawdog  @Saywhat? tax is close enough.
I'm Conservative, work at Union job at a big employer in Portland area that has 3 locations... and we don't even get "sick pay". Our attendance policy is worst then any job I have ever worked for. So.. I'm hoping this passes because we need to have some basic rights on time off, sick time, etc.. like almost every other nation on Earth has.. and not be slaves to our job / employer. It has REALLY gotten out of hand in this nation these past decades. I'm about to turn 30.. I'm fed up. I can reach across the aisle to my Democrats friend and Left leaning friends on this one.. when it comes to workers rights. So I hope this passes and I support it!
@Liberty4_WA So the union you pay dues to does a crappy job of negotiation and you don't get sick time, so the city negotiates for you. Benefits come through compromise. A balance between wages and benefits. Give and take. Choose which one you want. You may get all the time off you want if this passes. Fewer employee costs will make this work for companies. This city has a habit of imposing it's will on the people. Kind of reminds me of Randy Leonard forcing the city into buying the White Stag sign just to get his way cause he wanted to impose his will on the building owner. Â
 @Liberty4_WA I would speak with your shop steward and ask what your dues are going to. You're a union employee and have no paid time off or sick leave?
 @Liberty4_WA I'd be very interested in which union you belong to.
Well, the company I work for has had a mandatory 1 week off every quarter. Welcome to the real world employees of the GOV.
My company lumps it all into PTO, use it as you wish. I have so much time I have a really hard time using it (been with the company for many years).
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I love my job and only call in sick when I'm feeling really bad but usually end up working part of the day from home anyway. The only time I'm really off is when I'm out of cell phone range (those are my favorite trips too).
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Employers are idiots if they don't offer sick time, it really encourages sick people to come in, spread the germs, and lose more $ over time. Look at the east coast when the flu epidemic was at it's worst....they didn't have enough people in the offices.
 @deejm2112 One more criteria to use when it comes time to fire people.  "deejm took every single sick day but Star did not.  We have to fire someone.  Send the guards over to Deejm's desk and escort her her out of the building."
Govn't has taken over every aspect of our lives. Â Welcome to 1984.
 @deejm2112 You sound like an honest employee deejm2112, truth be told, most are. Let's be honest, employers are foolish if they don't offer sick pay, for the reasons you articulated. It still seems to me that the decision should rest with the employer, not a municipal body.
Would you pay your gardener for not mowing your lawn because he was sick? No, you wouldn't. So why does your employer owe you paid sick time?
@R Chase do you want your waiter or cook working while sick? If not, you should reconsider your stance on sick pay.
I have sick time and absolutely hate to use it. But then I like my job and
only take sick days when I really am ill. For other time I need or want off,
I have a vacation accrual.
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So if you give employees sick time and they abuse it, then come to work
ill, send them home without pay for a minimum of 3 days, and require a
doctor's note to come back to work.
 @Mikey We're allowed to accrue 120 total and don't get paid for the first day off on sick leave.  We're all very dedicated and don't abuse sick leave at all, but I've worked before where people use it just to take a day off.  I always loved some of the excuses they'd come up with....as a supervisor I could see right through them. Â
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 @Sundowner While I certainly appreciate your candor Sundowner, I could've gone the rest of the week without that explanation. Thank you, hope everything stays regular.
I wish the city would fix up City Hall. The place looks like a dump.
It's almost embarrassing to walk by there.
Reduce the PERS, and you might have people think twice about allowing it.
A large percent of people who are getting sick leave will use it as vacation time and when they are actually sick, they will go to work and infect everyone because can't afford to stay home. Â Â The companies who make a worker prove they are ill don't have as many problems as those who don't. Â Unfortunately, the more you give a worker, the more a lot of them will want. Â Besides, the government has no business interfering with private business unless the business has a government contract. Â Fact, if private business operated as poorly as our government, on all levels, there wouldn't be any private businesses. Â They'd all go broke.
 @Shadow "Unfortunately, the more you give a worker, the more a lot of them will want...." What a crock!
In my former business  with 25+ employees, we gave above and beyond! i.e. decent wages/health benefits/bonuses on profits/pd vacation & sick leave, and more...and we gained in extreme employee loyalty where our company was running like a well-oiled fast machine and satisfaction all-around was very high.
 @Shadow I could regale your for hours with endless stories about costly stupidity in the private sector.
Some politicians have forgotten the object of being in business.  According to Dr. Edward Deming, the object of business is to stay in business. It appears, to me, that staying in business is becoming tougher and tougher for the small business person.
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Are they trying to make sure every private business in Portland closes????
If you give someone 40 hrs of sick leave they will take it, always ! No one is going to mandate me as an employer to do this ! One more cost to pass along ! Where in the hell has common sense gone? Remember, these politicians don't have to balance their checkbook, as they have been overdrawn for decades and the responsibility to the public is a non issue to them.
 @Marcus I've never worked for a company that didn't give sick time or combined PTO. Â
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I know plenty of folks who frequently lost unused vacation or sick time.
 @Marcus I have a really tough time using all my PTO time.....but I love my job. I only stay home when I'm really sick.  As a manager I made one of my employees stay home an extra day just a little while ago because I suspected norovirus and the last thing I needed was that taking everyone else out.
 @MarcusÂ
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So you don't give any of your employees any time off?
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I bet you give them a week every year maybe (likely) more.
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Call it "sick time" and "convert" it to holiday/personal leave at the end of the year.
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BOOM you've just met the requirements set by the city and have given them no more time off than before.
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The purpose of this is not to fore people to get ADDITOANL time off. It's to give them at least SOME time off.
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I worked at City Liquidators. Likely the worst employer in the city and the second worst job I have had. Even he gave out 5 days after a year. No sick time, but if you had to take a day off, it was deducted from your vacation, or you could take it unpaid.
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The city is proposing the same thing. Give people a week of a year for full time, or a couple of days for part time.
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Next up...........raising the minimum wage to $25/hr.
This is just asinine for city policy....... but then again Portland has a bad case of Seattle envy . So if its stupid enough for Seattle, then by gum Portland leadership is dumb enougth to follow suit.
As with anything, people will take advantage of the situation. I have been in more than one Restaurant or store and been waited on by an obviously sick person snuffling snot and coughing. Some sick time might be appropriate. At the same time, I do not like the Government, City or otherwise, forcing any more rules on employers.
 @Pointblank That's because they're required to be there by their employer if they want to keep their job, and it would be very likely that the employer would manipulate the situation so that they would not receive unemployment. Also, in many cases, it could actually reduce or eliminate their eligibility for food stamps, if they have a "work requirement", as many do, thus harming they (and their families) twice over. That restaurant worker doesn't want to be there when they're sick and miserable, breaking health code, putting both him/herself and the customer at risk - but they're not given another option. If he or she isn't actually *in* the hospital, they probably don't have another option.
And chances are, the employer has scheduling so minimal, with part-time employees that they're unwilling to let work more than 25 hours per week (because that would require them to offer the [super-high deductible]Â health care that only the owners, and maybe the general manager, can realistically use and afford) that calling anyone in means calling Those Who Don't Work, aka, Owners.
It's a no-win situation, and it has little to do with the economy now - and much to do with attitude. It's been the same - the exact same - at my workplace for the last 19 years. All that might have changed, if one could call it a change, is the price of the owner's toys have gone up a little - so he squeezes a little tighter - and the way he takes care of the store gets a little worse. Preventative maintenance has been non-existent for well over a decade now - much too long to blame on Obama - but his McMansions have improved yearly. His vacations are ever more impressive. The jewelry his trophy wife drips, well, let's say it rains more in Oregon, but just barely.
All of you who voted for comrade Fritz have yourselves to blame.
After reading the headline, I thought the city would get to vote on this, not just the City Commissioners. Sure hope none of them is out sick on Thursday. Since today is Thursday, will that be next Thursday? Come on KATU,details are everything, even in the media!
So we get closer and closer to European style socialism.
This is good stuff. Add on regulatory costs to businesses that are already struggling. Combine that with 0bamaCare and we can drive more small businesses into bankruptcy.
 @RalphCramdenÂ
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I doubt anyone will go into bankruptcy from this.
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I have worked for MANY small and large businesses and have never worked for one that did not offer some type of time off after a probationary period.
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This is really a lot of nothing, grandstanding by the commissioners to look progressive.
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Repoman: Longview Fibre, Georgia Pacific Wauna Mill do not have and never have had sick time. It is not as prevelant as you mght think. Most will use it as its intended, for the others its just another week to get paid for not working (time off to abuse).
@Repoman ......may not go into bankruptcy. They'll just move or close ! Same affect !
@Rob C 503 if they can't treat their employees decently enough to allow them to not work while sick, the I say they're not worth being in business anyways.
 @RepomanÂ
I know several businesses that are struggling and would lay off workers to the "less than 6" level to save money. The employees are thankful to have a job and don't get any vacation, retirement, sick leave or medical insurance. If the owner paid that they would have to fire another employee to make that happen.
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It's hard times for many businesses. I am amazed at how many businesses have shut down over the years.
 @Repoman  @RalphCramden Lots of people willing to take that job.  Employers are there to make themselves money=not to pay taxes to drones and blood suckers.  If they can't make money then they will do what the government can't order them to do.  They will fire everyone and go out of business.
 @Mechanic  @RalphCramden  @Repoman Wake up, people are firing workers all over the country and cutting hours because of Obama care.  If you did more than watch The Daily Show for news you'd know that the commie Obamee is out to destroy our great nation.
 @Repoman What I don't respect is an over reaching government agency telling private employers that they must pay employees to stay home. There was a time when employees were bright enough to know that going to work sick was not a good idea. People stayed home whether or not they got paid.
If your employer offers vacation time or even if they don't, you do NOT have to go to work sick.
Stop trying to equate benefits with something earned. Or something you have a right to.
If your employer does not offer paid time off, find another employer. It's called free trade for a reason. Just as you can choose where you do business and with whom, you can also choose where you work. I'm tired of the excuses people give. If you aren't happy where you are, YOU are the only one who can change it. If you won't do what it takes, to get a job with all the benefits you think you deserve, it's no one's fault but your own.
Eventually, employers who do not voluntarily offer what employees want, will either close their doors or change their ways.
 @Kphrog Do you see anywhere that I said people shouldn't stay home if they are sick? It is not the employers fault, regardless of paid time off, if an employee decides to come to work sick. I do not condone punishing an employee for not working when sick. However, it is NOT the government's place to tell a private employer that they MUST pay someone to not work.
At what point are you guys willing to admit that you can't manage your own lives, that's why you support all this government control?
 @Torino_v2  @MechanicÂ
Many businesses are struggling and have cut back as much as they can to survive. All it will take is some regulation to push them over the edge.
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Full implementation of 0bamaCare will kill a lot of small businesses. Right now insurance is skyrocketing to pay for 0bamaCare.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936804578227890968100984.html
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 @spitfireÂ
It's just more government regulations and they have an additive effect. A little here, a little there, pretty soon it adds up to some real money and takes time and energy to keep up on the constantly changing regulations.
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For this reason the underground economy is thriving. Shadow businesses can do things for much cheaper than businesses that follow all the laws and regulations.
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One of my buddies was a contractor and now works for cash only. He can charge a lot less and the people get quality work for a lot less money. He gets food stamps on top of that so he is actually doing better than he did when he was a contractor.
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 @RalphCramden I believe the owners of businesses are over-reacting. They "think" it's going to cost them more money and they will be forced to shut down or fire their workers. If they looked at San Fransisco, it had very little impact on businesses. An employer who fires their employees before even knowing how much it's actually going to cost them is just shooting themselves in the foot and deserves to go out of business. It's like a child saying food tastes gross before even trying it. Any employer that doesn't offer any kind of benefits should be struggling for the lack of getting a loyal, hard working employee. You end up with employees that don't care and give lack-luster customer service, which in turn, ticks off the customer who will make sure to tell all their friends what a crappy business they have. Thus, making it difficult for the owner to get the customers they need to STAY in business. I would also bet that those businesses have a high turnover rate of employees, which end up costing that business MORE money due to constantly training someone new.Â
 @deejm2112 Hi deejm2112, you have the right to work for who you choose, for now. :)
 @Mechanic Here's something interesting about President Obama's policies and their impact on small business. It's a little dated, but, you get the point.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-hurn/why-does-obama-dislike-sm_b_1737570.html
 @Owt_Raged  How much do you think it costs the employer when an employee comes to work sick?  It's called presenteeism and it costs as much as giving them sick leave, if not more.  Look it up.
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Basic human dignity is a right. Â If that means that employers have to give sick leave to guarantee that, so be it. Â It's another part of the social contract that so many want to ignore. Â The fact is, countries that have these basic rights do much better than we do and their economies are not hurting for it. Â Get over the poor self-made man is being bullied thing. Â None of us are truly self-made and the sooner our society acknowledges that, the quicker we can get on with improving our situation as a country and fixing our economy.
 @RalphCramden  @Repoman Gee...I want to work for those businesses.....NOT.
 @RalphCramden  @Gregory A. Freemont  @Repoman Because God forbid we take care of employees...
 @Owt_RagedÂ
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Really?
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So time off for ANY reason should not be expected as an employee?
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And let me guess YOU don't get time off either right?
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Oh no wait you EARNED your time off for what, being cool?
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There was a time when people who worked for a business didn't have to justify "benefits" like getting sick and staying home. Those people respected the people who worked from them.
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I guess you Mr Owl don't respect people enough to want to give them any time off for being sick.
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Yeah getting sick costs money. It's a good thing you feel that burden should ONLY lei with the employee.
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I can see how much you must like the people who work for you.
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 @Repoman I was just wondering when an employer benefit became a right to you? When did you begin to feel you deserved to be paid for not working?
Sick and vacation pay is a benefit, given at the discretion of the employer.Â
Being in the money end of a business, sick days or vacation days cost an employer double. Pay an employee to not be there and then pay another one to cover for them.
If you feel you deserve to be paid for not working, might I suggest a government job of some sort?
 @RalphCramden  @Gregory A. FreemontÂ
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Costs of healthcare != Costs of 5 working days.
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Unless you pay REALLY REALLY well.
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While i don't agree with not subsidizing any healthcare costs for ones employees, employees can buy it themselves and with exchanges at a lower price than before (in theory we will see practice).
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But if you expect people to work 52 weeks straight, then 52 again, then 52 again to infinitum, then you expect too much.
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I worked in RETAIL and got a week off. I didn't get healthcare but again we are talking about a significant difference in costs.
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Besides, if making money is more important than being a good employer, then tell me who your cousin is so I can avoid buying the products he is making/selling.
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There used to be a time when employees were seen as part of the team with employers. Their fates were joined. Employers would see to a communal well being of everyone in the business not just themselves. It seems by your example more employers see their employees only as liabilities instead of asset and when times are rough; the employee suffers first, second and last. As long as the employer is still profiting it matters not who else is harmed by that profit.
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 @Gregory A. Freemont  @RepomanÂ
My cousin laid off 7 workers and is farming the extra work they did to China to avoid 0bamaCare. My brother in law is looking to do the same thing.
 @RalphCramden  @Repoman really, business would cut back employees to less than 6 .. well, that would mean they are limiting production/revenue, so that action would drive them out of business.  cut their own wrists.... some great business leader you have there.  business like anything else is adapt to change to survive or die. Â
 @RalphCramdenÂ
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Wow any "business" owner who would lay people off instead of giving them 5 days a year of time off for vacation, sick or anything else can go out of business as far as I'm concerned.
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No one needs a job that gives them no time off other than weekends.
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@RalphCramden @Repoman The owner(s) of the business(es) you say you know are cheapskates and should not be in business. And I just love the ultimatums that I hear: "Oh, if that happens, I will have to go out of business." "If Obama wins, I am going to fire some people." Total crap, and hardly every happens. Like never.