Fluoride foes submit more than 43,000 signatures

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - Opponents of Portland's plan to add fluoride to the city's water turned in signature petitions a day ahead of a deadline and with thousands of signatures to spare.
Clean Water Portland leader Kim Kaminski said the group submitted more than 43,000 signatures Thursday — far more than the 19,858 required to put the issue before voters. Advocates, who had 30 days to get the needed signatures for a referendum, wanted excess names in case some of the ones they collected are deemed invalid.
"Our goal was 30,000 and the signatures just kept coming in," Kaminski said. "In the last few days it was like an avalanche."
Election officials have 30 days to certify the petitions. Rick North, a volunteer with the anti-fluoride effort, said he's confident there are enough valid names.
"We've been reviewing every signature with a fine tooth comb to verify that they're valid and crossing off the ones that don't qualify," he said. "We expect a very high percentage of them to be accepted."
If the petitions are certified, the City Council could choose to put the issue before voters next year. Otherwise, the election would be in May 2014.
Portland voters twice rejected fluoride before approving it in 1978. They overturned their decision before it was ever added to the water.
The council last month unanimously approved a plan to add fluoride by March 2014. Until the vote, Portland was the largest city in the U.S. yet to approve water fluoridation to combat tooth decay.
Mayor Sam Adams and city commissioners said now is the time to act because Portland children have more dental problems than kids from neighboring states that fluoridate, and adding the mineral to the water is the most safe, effective and affordable way to address it.
Seventy-three percent of the U.S. population drinks water treated with fluoride — more than three times the rate in Oregon.
Opponents of public fluoridation say it's unsafe and violates an individual's right to consent to medication.
The opposition also criticized the council for rushing into action without a public vote. The mayor and commissioners have said they were elected to make decisions, and people unhappy with what they decide have the power of the referendum.
Kaminski said that's just what her group opted to do.
"We would go and out collect signatures and people were thanking us," Kaminski said. "Everyone thought it was a done deal and they felt really helpless."
The latest SurveyUSA poll conducted for KATU News and released Wednesday shows that voters are split on the whether to add fluoride to Portland's drinking water – 46 percent are in favor and 47 percent are opposed.
But respondents to the poll overwhelming said that the voters should decide the issue. About 77 percent said it should be up to the people while 20 percent said the City Council should make the decision.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press.
The subject was the topic of a recent "Your Voice, Your Vote." Watch the debate below.
good work guys.. I flaked and forgot to drive down and get a sign up sheet for my work.. I suck
wOOt!!!
One needs to accumulate as many toxins as possible to stay healthy. The disinformation people would have you believe that mercury and ionizing radiation are bad for you. So keep on swimming in the heavy water and singing in the acid rain.
"Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?" - Gen. Jack D. Ripper from Dr. Strangelove.
I definately need to work on spelling. Fluoride and Susceptability. Sorry about that one.
Dont we pay a water bill?? If so...cough cough shouldnt we get a say into what we are paying for??
Do your homework!! Floride increases suseptability to cancer by 700% !!! After Cowlitz County approved Floridation the cancer rate went off the charts. The numbers they show will be misleading but just ask anyone of the longtime residents and they will undoubtedly tell you the cancer rate in their county has exploded. DON'T FALL FOR THE DRUGGING OF YOUR WATER!! I am a long time nutritional enthusiast and have looked into this extensiveley. The city knows the truth and are being pushed to mislead you!!
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 @Caspertoo  @inception Actually I found cancer rates do go up too.. in fact a couple of scientist discovered it and were discredited and funding removed.. Nothing stops big business and the coch bros
It's not a "mineral" and what would go into the water isn't technically fluoride. It's two chemicals - aka toxic waste - from the phosphate industry. People need to get educated about where that garbage comes from.
 @Shawn PDX I sprinkle two component "toxic waste" liberally on my food every day, separated by a single row in the periodic table from sodium flouride.  Hell, the ocean's are full of the stuff.  That's not really a compelling argument one way or the other.
 @Festivus  @Shawn PDX Actually, sodium fluoride is what's in your toothpaste - it is NOT what is proposed for our water treatment.  You've got a periodic table, so don't play dumb on this. They use hydrofluorosilicic acid and sodium fluorosilicate - these fluoridation chemicals are not pharmaceutical grade quality. Comparing table salt to toxic chemicals isn't a compelling argument either, considering NaCl isn't a single box on the table =/Â
 @Festivus  @Shawn PDX Big business either has to pay millions to safely remove this toxic waste or they can sell it for huge profit and we drink it.. Yum!
The real story here has nothing to do with the potential safety of fluoride in drinking water - it has to do with the Portland government's narcissism, and blatant disregard of the opinions of the people that they are paid to represent. Â
 @UtterReality Narcissism?  They want to have good teeth when passing a mirror?
 @Festivus  @UtterReality look at the CDC web site. Flouride does help cavities.. Like 8% better for kids . but what they dont tell you is there is a 20% more loss of teeth in older adults.
@Festivus .....hopefully, when they pass that mirror, they say I've got to think of things a little differently !
 @Caspertoo  @Rob C 503 I did?  I don't live within the Portland city limits and I never had the chance to vote for or against Adams.
@UtterReality .....Portlander's elected them. Guess they're getting what they wanted. Oh no, they don't want someone controlling their lives??? There is an alternative.
"Public Water, Public Vote" Â That pretty much sums it up! Â
If I wanted to get flouride in my diet I'd go buy it and take it on my own. Why are we even wasting time/money on this non-issue when Portland has so many others to address?
43,000 people hve come out of the woodwork to vote against fluoride but last I saw Portland has like 1.5 million people around the area. That would make 43,000 is a very small number.
@onceagain yes that is al you need is a smal number within 30 days. Only needed 19.000 so tha number is impressive
 @onceagain You really should check what the sample size is before opening your mouth, 43k is 3x the sample size needed for 99% accuracy of a 1.5mil population.   Google "sample size calculator."
@Secrets AmongUs@onceagain
 If it were a random sample, you'd have a point. Â
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It isn't. Â So you don't.
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 @Festivus  @onceagain It's certainly been a while before getting back to this but you chose to defend the word "random" more than the math involved. There was a reason I stated this is 3 times the need for a "random" sample.  There is 3 times the amount "needed".
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Next you are saying it's not random because they were asked by people walking around with petitions to sign, which you call self-selected.  I believe there may be an argument about where they chose to place the petitioners but this certainly not a homogenous group and leans more toward random. 1 petitioner downtown in generally will lead to a pretty varied group. In other stories they refer to petition signatures as random sampling thus why the law was built around these numbers required to get a bill in.
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So there is more than 3 times and it is varied enough to count which there is only three results, Yes, No, and No Answer.  Perhaps if you took college level (starts in the 200s) statistics you would know that this is more than ample.
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 @Secrets AmongUs  @onceagain Any time you want to go toe-to-toe with me on a math problem  feel free to step right up.
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43,000 signatures from voters self-selected (how, after all, did they get on the list in the first place?) to support a cause is not the same as 43,000 supporters randomly sampled from the Portland voting population, which is what would have been necessary for the original point to have been valid in any meaningful way.
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If these signatures had been gathered from a randomized sampling of all Portland voters, it would be useful as an estimate with a >95% confidence level of the feelings of the POPULATION AS A WHOLE. Â
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This is basic statistics 101. Â You do not have a random sample, so you cannot make inferences based on random statistics. Â
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 @Festivus  @onceagain It's called Math, no expert needed.  Just read.
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As for random, you are saying 43000 is a homogeneous population?.  The population is random, and 3x the sample size needed for our population.  Â
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How can you not understand that?
 @Secrets AmongUs So what makes google the expert, someone at google I assume. besides that is all assumption guessing, and wrong more times then right.
This is the same as having the same sex marriage issue voted down a number of times, but a few people still want it legal. Â So if the people do not want fluoride in the water an accept the vote of the people then the same rules should apply to all the gays and lesbians not getting to marry. But the truth is that fluoride is not a toxin and will only help people, but the NW liberals are to big of a collective bunch of idiots, that will cut their own nose off to spite their own face.
@onceagain fluoride is toxic. When I was growing up it was used as a rat poison.                      Â
http://www.zerowasteamerica.org/fluoridechronology.htm
 @poodlem sugar is toxic too. thats a bad argument. Try " this stuff really doesn't work. Its not worth the risk, if any, to my health"
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 @portlandborn83  @Caspertoo  @poodlem You may have a good point here portlandborn83 as it does seem that more and more people have less common sense as time goes by, this case can be proven by just looking at the Portland area population who voted in a pedophile for mayor and run around with bad teeth to boot..
@Caspertoo @poodlem Here's a study done this year by harvard that shows that fluoride lowers IQ:
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âThe effect of each toxicant may seem small, but the combined damage on a population scale can be serious, especially because the brain power of the next generation is crucial to all of us.â
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http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi.html
 @poodlem When I was growing up, we used water to drown mice.  Â
 @poodlemSo please tell me why 203 million people in America have not died from drinking this toxin. People have been using fluoride for over 60 years and no one has die from it, besides there is fluoride in ground water normally. Now what other crap are you going to spill out of your rotten tooth head?
If you want fluoride water, go to wal-mart, walgreens, or rite aid....there is a whole shelf of the stuff because no one wants it! Â
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If fluoride is a health benefit, then why did Sweden, Holland, Finland, France, Germany, Japan, and even Britain suspend it's use?
 @portlandborn83 Interesting!
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An Inconvenient Tooth is a documentary film about fluoride. Â It was released September 6th, 2012 at the city hall in Portland, Oregon.
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http://AnInconvenientTooth.org
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sh-oeu2L8yM
Good, put this to a vote of the people/cows and see it get defeated... again. I don't even know who to vote for city council anymore. I though Amanda Fritz was a voice of reason but I guess not.Â
No doubt they'll get thrown out as duplicates or invalid for some reason.
I wonder if the other communities who purchase their water from Portland Bull Run will get to participate in the vote.
i personally dont feel this has anything to do with "forcing" people to take a "medication". It's floride, if you have ever had tap water in another city in this state, or washington, or any other state... you drank floride, it wont hurt you, it wont kill you, and you'd never notice. My problem is being forced to pay for it. I dont have a dental problem. sorry to sound selfish but i dont need to be paying for the dental care of the "children".. i dont have children for a reason. This is a WASTE of money that Oregon DOESNT have!! if we are cutting from hospitals, schools, youth programs, and other necessary services, whose A HOLE is Sammy Boy pulling 5 million dollars from??? someone needs to seriously assess their financial responsibilites, i will vote no... and i will always vote no to things that will take money out of my very empty wallet for something that is not going to seriously benefit the population
 @Mr.Q I agree.  I would rather the money be spent on libraries, education, or some good cause but not someone's pet project.
"...it wont hurt you, it wont kill you, and you'd never notice."
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âIt is now an established fact that fluoride ingestion over a period of time can affect the structure and function of cells, tissues, organs and systems resulting in a variety of clinical manifestations," writes Dr. Susheela who researches fluoride extensively (http://education.vsnl.com/fluorosis/publication.html).
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The following symptoms can occur even when fluoride consumption is at the low level added to most US water supplies.
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1) aches and pain in the joints, i.e. neck, back, hip, shoulder and knee without visible signs of fluid accumulation
2) non-ulcer dyspepsia such as nausea, vomiting, pain in the stomach, bloated feeling or gas formation in the stomach, constipation followed by diarrhea
3) polyuria (frequent urination) and polydipsia (excessive thirst)
4) muscle weakness, fatigue, anemia with low hemoglobin level
5) complaints of repeated abortions/still birth
6) complaints of male infertility with abnormality in sperm morphology, oligospermia (spermatozoa deficiency in the semen), azoospermia (spermatozoa absence in the semen) and low testosterone levels.â
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 âAmericans are unaware that their arthritis, irritable bowel syndrome or other symptoms may be fluoride-related,â says attorney Paul Beeber, President, New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation. âThis information should be heeded by physicians and members of the medical and scientific communities.
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http://fluoridedangers.blogspot.com/2006/01/fluoride-harmful.html
 @str1ngb3nd3r Oh, poooooh!  All of those are the benefits of a premium AARP membership! Thbbbbbbbbbbt! {;-p
 @Gravity Works! lol...I was going to give you a like but your spittle blinded me (^o^)
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 @Mr.Q Regardless, it is still forcing those of us that know what fluoride does and don't want it to either move out of the area or deal with having a known industrial byproduct to be sprayed on us, make our food with, drunk, etc.
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@Caspertoo @Jamie @Mr.Q Actually, TVWD does NOT fluoridate its entire supply; here's a map showing where they fluoridate. http://tvwd.org/media/130487/tvwd_fluoride_map.pdf
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Glad I do NOT live in the fluoride area. I grew up here, have great teeth, no problems b/c I take adequate care of my teeth (brush, floss, visit dentist 2x/year).Â
@Caspertoo @Jamie @Mr.Q Sounds like it has caused brain damage.
Portlander's........you elected these fools and for the last four years you have been suffering the results of your vote. Here is another perfect example of this City Council knowing what's best for you and imposing it upon you. Whether you like it or not !