Governors call for renewing wind energy tax credit

@Festivus     Here is a warm period  that is even warmer than the last century.  And it was long before  SUV roamed the earth. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period

 

I see you links and call bullsh!t on them.....

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3624242/There-IS-a-problem-with-global-warming...-it-stopped-in-1998.html

 

http://www.climatecooling.org/

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/26/atlantic_ocean_cooling/

 

http://notrickszone.com/2011/07/09/europes-temperatures-show-no-evidence-of-warming-since-1998/

 

 

http://climatechaos2020.blogspot.com/2008/11/climate-cooling-since-1998.html

 

great vid on  the fraud of man made global warming......  C02 does NOT drive the climate.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ

 

 

 @Festivus 

 

~Snipped from:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam

 

The dam's primary goal, irrigation, was postponed as the wartime need for electricity increased. The dam's powerhouse began production around the time World War II began, and its electricity was vital to the war effort. The dam powered aluminum smelters in Longview and Vancouver, Washington, Boeing factories in Seattle and Vancouver, and Portland's shipyards. In 1943, its electricity was also used for plutonium production in Richland, Washington, at the Hanford Site, which was part of the top-secret Manhattan Project.[73][74] The demand for power at that project was so great that in 1943, two generators originally intended for the Shasta Dam were installed at Grand Coulee in an effort to hurry the generator installation schedule.[75]

 

I would submit that real LEADERSHIP is to promote and encourage the country in directions and social investments that promote the general economic advantage which is guaranteed to be enjoyed by the majority.  This cannot be accomplished by giving tax breaks to people who have large bank accounts but by giving jobs to people who need the money for their families.  And, create those jobs in areas that will be to the advantage of the same people who do the work to create the things.  After the second war the men who built the bridges and their families demanded increasing levels of electricity which was produced at the dams they and their fathers had built.

 @Festivus

 

Excellent work, Festivus, to connect national security with energy independence is at the core of the question.  Everyone is so wrapped up in the fallacy that the greatest interest is economic and they quibble over how some theoretical pie will be sliced before it is even baked. 

 

The Hoover Dam was built on tax payer money as a "Make Works" project during the depression.  That dam was later used to make generate power...not the original intention but a fortunate byproduct...which produced power for Kaiser Aluminum.  Kaiser produced the Aluminum for Boeing that produced the Aircraft that won the Second World War.  Without the Hoover Dam the United States would have been less secure and more American lives may have been lost.

 

The moral of the story is that the Hoover Dam and Grand Coulee played an important role to improve the lives of Americans by creating jobs in the short run and then paid a huge social dividend in National Security in the long run which was unforeseen at the time of their planning and construction.

 

I would submit that America is at another of those cross-roads now.  It is an old adage that one hopes for the best and prepares for the worst but America isn't preparing for anything but barely responding to any crisis that arises.  And, building drones to kill in a "bloodless war"....bravo sierra.  A national high-speed rail system would put millions of people to work and generate a national economic revival as those primary workers spend money at every level through the economy.  The project would show people the future that would be more sustainable economically and environmentally.  And, the long-term dividend would be a reduction in the dependence on foreign oil to support domestic travel infrastructure.

 @kramr  @Festivus I'm happy to have subjective disagreements and shrug my shoulders, but not when bad science is involved.

 

2000-2010 is the hottest decade ever recorded in modern history.  The earth is not cooling.  Unless you have a better source to back it up than NASA or NOAA, I call bullsh!t.

 

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20100728_stateoftheclimate.html

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/science/earth/22warming.html?_r=0

 

@Festivus With few exceptions (WPA, BPA, TVA, etc.) government does not belong in businesses where the private sector can fill the need with a sustainable, regulated model.  Power generation is one of those businesses where government does not generally belong.  There are legitimate reasons for the current government involvement in hydropower generation and transmission (dam building, electrification or rural America, etc.).  There is no legitimate reason for the government to be subsidizing wind farms operated by foreign companies (Vestas) and/or private profit making companies.

 

There is a legitimate purpose for government to be engaged in supporting research and development of alternative energy, but not for supporting an unsustainable wind energy model.

 

The government is great at developing ideas and concepts but fails miserably and execution and implementation.  Look no further than the solar energy debacle for proof.  Until the majority of us taxpayers tell the government we want them to use our money to subsidize foreign companies, enrich stockholders, and add to private company profits, they should stay out of the wind energy subsidy business.   

 

 

 @I812  @Festivus If power generation doesn't fall under the umbrella of infrastructure, I don't know what does.

 @Civ  @Billy 

There are so many unknowns about the imminent failure.

 

How will it go down? WIll there be a lot of violence associated with it? Will there be enough food and water? Who will take over the government and will there be a revolution against those who take over? What side will the military and police take? Will other countries try to get involved?

 

It's gong to be ugly no matter how it goes down and I am sure that the entitlement society will not take it laying down and will demand their welfare checks.

 @Festivus  @darren vandervort  @WebFootSTi 

There are no subsidies only for oil companies.

 

Depletion tax deductions are used by the timber industry, the mining industry and any other industry that deals in a finite product that has a potential of ending.

 

Apple is the King of deductions when it comes to offshore profits. They make the oil companies look like amateurs and use the same "so called subsidies" as the oil company.

 

 

 @RalphCramden  @darren vandervort  @WebFootSTi The big four deductions that the White House has been going after are:

 

Domestic manufacturing tax deduction

The foreign tax credit

Intangible drilling costs

Percentage depletion

 

Those are reasonable discussions to be had.

 @RalphCramden  @darren vandervort  @WebFootSTi To say that there are no oil company specific subsidies is not the same as saying that there are no oil subsidies, only that they are treated no differently than many other companies.  This is not de facto evidence that the those subsidies are prudent or necessary just because they are universal.  

 

Oil enjoys substantial subsidies, and a few like the depletion percentage tax deduction that are only available to a very small number of resource extraction industries.  It was the creation of some of these tax deductions that helped the fledgling oil industry survive in its infancy.