Is it time for a sales tax? Some Oregon lawmakers say it is
»Play Video
PORTLAND, Ore. – It hasn’t been a popular idea in the past, but a group of Portland-area lawmakers think the time is right to propose a sales tax in Oregon.
The idea is to have a five percent tax on many things we buy, which would be coupled with tax breaks for homeowners and people with jobs. The proposal calls for cutting property and income taxes in half.
Even though voters have rejected other sales taxes a whopping nine times, supporters of the idea say that this time around some people could end up actually paying less in overall taxes.
State Senators Mark Hass and Ginny Burdick, as well as State Representative Tobias Read, are behind the idea. All three are Democrats.
Hass believes Oregon’s tax system puts our schools at too much risk and that it is the most volatile state revenue system in the country.
No other state is as dependent on a single tax as Oregon is on its income tax.
Hass sees a five percent sales tax as the only solution to avoid massive teacher layoffs and growing class sizes.
“We got to get out of this boom or bust cycle,” Hass said. “When you look at Oregon’s revenue system, because of the income tax it’s up and down and up and down. It looks like the Matterhorn.”
He argues that aside from helping education funding, creating a broader, more stable tax base would help businesses plan better and it would also help other government-funded services manage their staffs and resources.
The sales tax would be applied to items like cars, clothing and toys. Food, prescription drugs and utilities would not be taxed.
The plan also includes cuts to the capital gains and corporate taxes.
Renters would get some kind of rebate since they wouldn’t benefit from the drop in property taxes.
Lawmakers will debate the proposal when the next legislative session starts in the new year.
Read more: Details of the proposed sales tax
Advocates for an Oregon sales tax are being neither progressive nor useful. We Oregonians have spoken repeatedly on the sales tax issue and the message that we have consistently sent merits compliance by state politicians. Â
The recent Great Recession exposed the intellectual bankruptcy of claims that a sales tax provides revenue stability during downturns. The sales tax states most emphatically did not enjoy revenue stability during the recession. Â
There comes a time, both during courtship and in discussions with the electorate, when pressing on after hearing "NO" many times, is no longer courtship, but an attempt at coercion. Sales tax pushers are now entering the stage of pressure where their continued attempts smack more of attempted coercion than a legitimate attempt to find support.
I would only support a sales tax if the income tax was permanently eliminated. Â Property owners would not pass on a savings to their tenants. Â If you want to be fair, Â make sure ALL Oregonians will benefit or share in the solution. Â I don't like the idea of paying TRIPLE taxes. Â Legislators need to go out among the real people, not just those who have money or social connections, and ask the rest of us what would convince us to support another tax. Â
again this looney idea surfaces? I helped vote it down several times when I was a oregon resident; Now being a washingtonian I still shop across the border in portland for the big ticket items and smaller too at times if circumstances I just happen to find myself there? but if this thing passes I will certainly stop doing that and buy nothing at all in oregon; So the idiot planners in oregon can multiply that scores of times over and over!"
these clowns won't quit! simply stop growing the"phoney business" called government, we're sick and tired of these people fleecing us for every penny they can make laws allowing them to do so.
 @bwcs ~ I agree 100%... but the problem is, these people didn't inherit their lawmaker spots; they were elected to them..!  So how do we change the thinking of the ones who keep voting them in..?!?  Â
Oregon doesn't need any more taxes or user's fees! Oregon politicians just need to control their spending!
vote whoever supports this bad idea out...Â
if the politicians for once would just be honest and say "We want a sales tax because we want (not need but want) more money in the states coffers I'd at least have a teeny bit more respect for them and don't get me wrong,  I'd still vote no on a sales tax in the new york second.Â
Sadly the politicians continue to earn our DISrespect when they tell us  bold face lies about the sales tax being about  "stability of income"
Well, that means that Oregon residents will be paying WA taxes when they shop here .
So, in order to beat a sales tax you just buy less stuff, but when you buy less stuff, there is less demand for stuff. When there's less demand for stuff, people lose their jobs. When people lose their jobs there is less tax revenue, so then govt. raises taxes to make up the difference. Vicious cycle.
The voters already turned this down 9 times in Oregon.
Â
Nobody can ever trust people in political office none of them are trustworthy ... just look at Obama!
Â
Now they are trying to pass this by themselves without going to the voters!
Â
They should all be fired and put out to pasture!
Â
Chaneg the law to just just the politicans and people who shop in our state the sales tax but not the people.
Â
Need another Sizemore to put pressure on Salem to get another vote by the people to roll back the property tax by 80% or more.
Â
I am tired of paying for services for over 30 years for others who then get a free ride off my money.
Â
The schools should be allowed to charge only the people who have kids going to school but not others who don't!
Â
The parents of the kids should have to pay for their kids and not others who don't have kids in school!
Â
Unemployed for over a year and nobody helps me!!
The idea is to have a five percent tax on many things we buy, which would be coupled with tax breaks for homeowners and people with jobs. The proposal calls for cutting property and income taxes in half.
Â
I can just hear Taxhaber giggling.....
They pulled this "fuzzy" math bull in Idaho some years back promising to never raise it ever again, if the taxpayers allowed a 5% sales tax. Well, guess what?? The sales tax has continued to get jacked up ever since. Once the state gets sales tax power, it won't quit. It will continue to go up and up an up and up. Once a sales tax is passed, it will be impossible to rescind. Democrats are the ones notorious for raising taxes, NOT Republicans.
 @None ~  Dems, Repubs, makes no difference... we can't trust ANY of them..!
Hmmm, increased taxes for the middle class and poverty class and cuts to corporate taxes.
I know three lawmakers that need to be fired. This just shifts more of a tax burden off of corporations and onto the working poor. No wonder our state is in such a mess with financial geniuses like this in charge.
What do you mean "3"...they ALL need to be fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no guarantee that if our Oregon lawmakers pass a 5% state sales tax that the revenue funds will actually go to the schools. Didn't we recently in November pass another tax for schools?Guess we still need more funds.
They say by passing a 5% state sales tax it will cut property taxes in half. Â Then what will the counties and cities do to raise lost revenue they get from property taxes?Guess we might also see a local sales tax added to the state 5% in order to compensate their lost revenue.
How can it be possible to raise more revenue (for schools so they say) by cutting Property taxes and income taxes in half but charging a 5% sales tax. Sound more like a trade off to me than actually gaining more revenue.
It will stop people from coming to Oregon to shop, so it will also reduce retail sales, jobs and tourism.
Â
Think about that!Â
Unless I've missed it, the majority of conservatives and or Republicans on this site have contiguously spoken against raising taxes. Now that's no stretch, we favor those that earn money the right to keep as much of what they earn as possible. What concerns me is again, unless I've missed it, I've yet to see any of the Liberal or Democrats suggest any option other than 'raising taxes'. Why is the liberal, or Democrat response always to 'increase taxes' rather than 'cut spending'?Â
This comment has been deleted
@last boyscout @Fed up Fed    "Yeah, weird how Republicans always cut spending, innit? I mean, they haven't EVER done it when they're in power . . "
Â
Not true.     Check out hstory.  Esienhower.  He took over with deficits, managed throught them and worked to a surplus.  He gave a surplus to JFK.  The deficits began again with JFK and LBJ and have been a way of life all too long.
A liberal demo. Â wanting a sale tax....no surprise here......
Anyone who uses the mantra regarding high earners that 'they need to pay their fair share' is intellectually dishonest, morally bankrupt.
A rate exceeding 36% is confiscatory. The people earning in this range are shouldering the weight of the Obama economy. Suggesting that they should now pay 40%, which would collect enough to operate the government for an inconsequential 8 days exposes the Presidents strategy as a bitter act of class warfare.
The Republicans are right to make their reasonable offers further exposing the democrats real agenda.
Â
This comment has been deleted
 @Fed up Fed   "Like that mortgage interest deduction? Cuz your GOP friends want to take it away from you . . . "
Â
One of the proposals the GOP has put forth is to limit deductions to $50,000 - and let you pick and choose which ones you desire.  Do you have $50,000 worth of deductions? Â
 If so you probably don't qualify as middle class.   If not,, then the "rich would be clipped to $50,000 and you would get what you get now.
This comment has been deleted
 @peckishpete Your hate for Christians is disgusting.  Your way off topic.  You have a terrible agenda in your mind.
@sortbait I don't have a terrible agenda. All I see these days are groups of people demonizing other groups of people simply because they have different beliefs, different ethnic backgrounds, etc. I still don't Jesus would be very happy with this. What about the Golden Rule or being thy brothers' keeper.Â
 @peckishpete I think your generalizations show a complete lack of insight into fundamental Christianity.
Personally, I think Jesus is probably most concerned about he slaughter of unborn children and the general moral decline of society as well as the shrinking numbers of people who confess Him.
Your statement is way off the mark.
 @peckishpete How do taxes help the less fortunate? They are not going to increase the levels of service with more taxes. 90% of it will go to pensions and payrolls.
@SR That's a bunch of bunk and you know it. Only about 30% go towards benefits. And any increased revenue will go towards providing more services and teachers.Â
Its amazing how good a job conservative Christian Republicans have done on demonizing anyone who needs help for our society or who makes a minimal income to the point they aren't obligated to pay taxes. I wonder what Jesus would have to say if he came back to Earth and saw how people treat and view people these days. I don't think he'd be too happy. In fact, I think he'd be disgusted with many so-called Christians and other folks in this world.
 @peckishpete Not anyone who needs help. Teenage sluts who get pregnant are screw ups. But I have to pay for their medical insurance. Anyone who wants a free ride is who they demonize.
@givupongod No, they demonize the 47% of people who accept some form of government benefit. I don't think all those 47% are teenage sluts. Nice try though!
How about a value-added tax on high-cost items like expensive cars, yachts, boats, jet skis, and the like. If you can afford to buy these type of things, you can afford to pay a "luxury" tax. But oh no, we can't tax the rich anymore, can we? What a disastrous notion.
 @peckishpete How about a tax on I-Pads, flat screens, expensive electric cars, Lap Tops, and  PERS retirement plans that pay some folks more not to work than most of us ever make WHILE we are working?
@last boyscout I pay both Federal and State taxes on my PERS checks every month and only a very small percentage of people retired at or slightly above their end salary. And I agree, a value-added or luxury tax on these types of items would be good. If you can afford to buy these kind of things you probably have enough money to pay a tax on them. And if state workers and teachers have it so good why don't you go out and get a job with the state instead of just complaining. Are you forced to work where you work?
 @peckishpete @last boyscout     ". . only a very small percentage of people retired at or slightly above their end salary."
Â
Buuuzt... Care to play again?
Â
29%Â get 90% or better and a whopping 22% get at or above their ending salary!
Â
Source:Â http://gov.oregonlive.com/pers/Â Â Â
I suggest you download the cvs file and work with it, you'll be amazed.
" Union workers... have higher standards" LOL, not in the electrical industry!! Unions are out-dated dinosauers that should be banned! They encourage poor performance, and reward the lazy, while the union bosses live extravagent lifestyles on the backs of the union workers! They illegally threaten the workers pensions if they don't kowtow to the union bosses demands. they "buy" jobs from the non-unionized shops with fund extorted from their workers, with the excuse of "job security". I have seen all this in the 30 years that I have operated a non-union shop, so don't bother trying to tell me, or anyone else, that I'm wrong!!!Â
@Fed up Fed  I think we are talking about different caliber of folks. My experience has been with more of the grunts (for lack of a better term) than jobs that require degrees. However I see the teachers unions as employees that required special training and are darn near impossble to get rid of. My kids are finishing up their primary education and there were plenty of teachers we had experience with that are only still employed because of the unions ability to not get them fired.
@Fed up Fed  Well you my friend are the exception to the rule. More often than not, unions promote lazy behavior because there is no motivation to work hard. Someone barely carrying their own load gets the same raise as a hard worker so there in no motivation to work hard. couple that with many unions almost require an act of congress to get rid of a long term  crappy employee. And yes, I've worked a public union job and well as family members in public union jobs as well.
 @Fed up Fed  @last  @peckishpete But your probably phoney story is to be believed.Â
Welcome to the innerwebs. You must be new here.
Â
 @peckishpete  @last Pete, I did work for the school dist. in Clackamas for one year. Then my father bought a small business and asked me to work for 'the family business'. I was happy to work for the family for 13 years, now I'm self employed. But believe me, many are the times that I wish I had stayed with the school dist. I myself would be retired right now, and on a fat PERS retirement. I remember one thing that bothered me working for the school dist., more than once, I was scolded by older guys working there to 'STOP working so fast, your gonna make us look bad'. That happened a few times.
The middle class would not exist without 'big government'. That and unions. We'd still be working 80-hour weeks in inhumane conditions. Without government acting as an equalizer, the rich would just keep all the money. We tried it the other way for centuries. Didn't work so well for most people, just for the rich.
 @PutANerdonIt Tried what for centuries? Capitalism? Government control has always been the norm. Until this country existed the government always ran your life. We are just going down the path of socialism. Which has been proven not to work over and over again.
@givupongod @PutANerdonIt Seems to me that many countries in Europe are doing just fine, thank you very much. And for centuries, the masses were controlled by the rich and royal until they got to the breaking point and then we had the French and Russian revolutions. I think most of the people living in these countries would think that socialism is far better than what they had in centuries past when kings and czars ruled.Â
 @peckishpete  @givupongod  @PutANerdonIt Countries like Greece,Spain,Ireland,Portugal, and  Britain?
I would have no problem with replacing Oregon's income tax with a sales tax. I will never support the addition of a sales tax on top of both property tax and income tax as well as all of the user fees (taxes) that have been imposed on Oregonians.
Â
Oregonians have pretty well stated this at the ballot box no less that nine times. You would think that the politicians would get a clue, but not in Oregon.
We do not need a sales tax, we don't need any new taxes!! What needs to be done nationwide is to remove the government teat from the mouths of those incapable or unwilling to support themselves. If you can't or won't be a productive citizen it's not the responsibility of any taxpayer or government agency to support you or your family.
@dave I hope you still say the same thing if you get fired and nolonger have a job, have a loved one die in the streets because there was no Medicare and Medicaid to help them and you couldn't afford to. Its easy to be critical if you haven't walked in anothers' shoes.Â
 @dave I take it you did not vote for Oh Bummer.
I guarantee you all that the ball will not stop rolling with state sales tax. Â This would open the door for each and every county and city to also enact a local sales tax as has happened in practically every state with a sales tax.
We defeated Sales tax initiatives the previous 9 times they have been submitted to a vote.
I think it's time to put any polititian that proposes a sales tax in jail till the end of their term.
How about putting them in jail right away, when they vote for it, or propose it??
You do realize the idiot proposing this is a "libtard" right (to use your grade-school parlance)?