Ore. House set to vote on tuition costs for illegal immigrants
SALEM, Ore. (AP) - The state House is scheduled to vote Friday on a measure allowing illegal immigrants to pay in-state college tuition if they graduated from an Oregon high school.
The House has rejected similar measures twice before after they were passed by the Senate. This time, the measure has strong support from majority Democrats and some Republicans and is expected to pass.
Oregon requires university students to pay higher out-of-state tuition if they can't prove they are legally in the United States.
The bill's supporters say young illegal immigrants shouldn't be denied access to affordable higher education because their parents decided to migrate without authorization.
Critics say the state shouldn't subsidize college tuition for people who can't legally work in the United States.
(Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)
How about this? Â Make the families of these people pay for this stuff, as well as ALL of the other handouts that they are currently receiving! Â I have a family of 12, some presumably illegals, (Most of them don't even speak English) living in a rented house in my neighborhood. They have 8 vehicles, four of which are BMWs, one Audi, two Acuras, and a Honda Accord. Â All of these vehicles are newer than 2008! Â That is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of $350,000 in vehicles! Â My wife and I make decent wages. We have 4 people in our family and 4 vehicles. Â 2012 Toyota Camry, 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan, 2001 Toyota Corolla, and a 1999 Honda Civic. Â My stinking taxes this year were over $40,000!
I don't know about all of you, but I am fed up with this, "Let's help the less fortunate people" BS. Â Basically, every tax payer and I pay for all of their vehicles, which REALLY ticks me off. Â It further irritates me when I see these guys at the grocery store paying for groceries with their Oregon Trail cards!!!!!! Â This crap has to stop.
Yet another proposal by the insanely stupid and tolerant. Â What makes sense about providing money to people that are not US citizens to attend college? Â Are they serious with this BS? Â Provide funds for illegals so that they can get college educations and thus compete for better jobs that TAX PAYING citizens would otherwise have? Â Are you out of your freaking minds? Â Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Oscar?
In Oregon the only people that support illegal aligns are the politicians because they have the cushy job because of illegal votes. You get what you deserve if you vote for these lefty crooks.
Right now most schools allow you to get in-state tuition if you can show you've lived in Oregon for 90 days. These undocumented students will have to prove a much longer residency in order to get that in-state tuition rate. They still can't get any financial aid or anything.Â
Colleges and universities typically now receive most of their funding through tuition & fees and local property taxes. State funding has been cut back so much that it's only a small part of most college budgets. Undocumented people pay property taxes, either because they own property or they pay rent. And if the student goes to the college/university, they'd be paying their tuition & fees. This really doesn't have much of an impact on taxpayers, but makes a huge impact on kids who were raised here and would like to become citizens, get an education, and contribute to society.
@Jenni S. Working under the table is income tax free
Since for the large part, the parents of these poor, struggling, deserving kids are not carrying their full share of the tax burden that funds the educational institutions, these illegals are getting something for next to nothing. Legal children of legal but out of state parents will pay much more than illegals, and in effect so will the legal residents of Oregon. That just doesn't seem right.
@Nobody The artical doesn't go into enough detail but I believe this applies to kids of illegals who were raised in Oregon. They are/were required to pay out of state tuition. By allowing them to pay in state tuition would not cost the tax payers anything.Â
Also I could be wrong but I thought that schools were payed for by property taxes. If that's the case then the illegles have paid into the system in the form of rent. Just like every other non property owner.
@hokeywolf Your spelling cracks me up
With 12 million illegals in this country, I wonder where their allegiance will fall should chett hit the fan? Â
How can US citizens count on them to help defend this country if they haven't sworn allegiance to it? Â
...or is it even a concern?
Its actually illegal to give illegal aliens in state tuition....... but it'll just be another law the feds will ignore.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/11/providing-in-state-tuition-for-illegal-aliens-a-violation-of-federal-law
@kramr Very interesting find. Thanks.
@kramr ~  Since when did something being "illegal" make any difference to our politicians..?  Hey; they're buying VOTES - what could possibly be more important than that..?!?
So will the House member's taxes cover this large expense since they seem to think it's so important? Oh no wait, it's us sheep out here who will be burdened with this BS.
@TimBurr Is there something in this bill that outlines the potential cost(s)?
So who are the people that won't be re-elected next time? Digging your own political graves I see.
Passed 38 to 18
Why am I not surprised..Â
What's wrong is right, what's right is wrong.. This whole country is completely backwards.Â
Jesus, I know it's Your time & not mine but it has to be SOON!Â
@cwpholder Even so, come Lord Jesus!!!!!
By a 38-18 vote, the bill passed. Â Let's get ready to rumble.
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@TheUglyTruth Well, do your research and head on down to Salem, microphone in hand.  Walk the walk instead of just talking the talk.
@Sundowner @TheUglyTruth Watch out TheUglyTruth, Sundowner likes to troll everybody's post like she's God. Pretty much an illegal lover. hehe j/k.
@JohnPDXÂ I actually don't "get" where you're coming from. Â I shouldn't respond to comments I see here that I either agree or disagree with? Â And why just me? Â
"sundowner" & "hokeywolf" both make valid points... My long-standing and main objection to this, though, is it is just another slap in the face to every immigrant who has gone through the LEGAL process... and to every person who is still in the long waiting-lines for LEGAL entry... Â We're telling them that our own immigration laws don't matter to us; that if you whine and complain loudly enough, and long enough, our lawmakers can be persuaded to circumvent existing laws - or create new laws - that we will allow ILLEGAL entrants the same (possibly even better!) benefits that we do to our own citizens or LEGAL immigrants..!
Why would anyone in their right mind choose to do things the LEGAL way when they can accomplish the same goals by just jumping the border or by overstaying a visa..??? Â Â
Frankly, I see this as the tip-of-the-iceberg... We need to secure our borders, improve our visa control, and ENFORCE our existing immigration laws (eg: use of E-verify by employers), BEFORE we make new legislation that will only serve to encourage more illegal entry into the US. Â Â
Good, bad, right, or wrong we as a socitity have educated these children of illegles. It seems to me that if we ever wish to get a return on our investment then we should make these kids citizens. Let them go to college.
@hokeywolf The problem is this shouldn't happen to the first place, but now that it has this needs to be corrected. But who pays the price for the foolishness of these uneducated people dropping babies every which way? You, me and anyone else who pays taxes and has to work two jobs to attend college like everybody else. It makes no sense to benefit those who need to make good. This American educated children of illegals should be forced to go through the entire process of becoming a citizen. I would love to eat my words and have each and every one of them take an oath, become a citizen, go to college and reach their full potential. However, don't think that's goign to happen.
@JohnPDX @hokeywolf 'who pays the price for the foolishness of these uneducated people dropping babies every which way? You, me and anyone else who pays taxes and has to work two jobs to attend college like everybody else,,;'
Curiously, the kids parents never seem to be part of the discussion, yet, they are the ones most directly responsible for creating the situation in the first place. Let them figure it out.
@JohnPDX @hokeywolf Should have, would have, could have does not matter when it comes to the children that were raised and educated in this country. Many only speak english. We paid for their education. Do you want that money to go to wast? Make the children citizens. If they finish highschool they have earned it. Please notice I'm only talking about the children. I admit I really don't know what to do about all of the others.
We all know this bill is for those few kids we've all seen in the news and the few hundred (?) others like them. Â This bill is for kids who've worked their butts off in high school to excel, who were brought here by their parents without having a say-so in the matter and who are looking for a way to afford higher education. Â My kids got the benefit of in-state tuition even though they spent a number of years in California public schools (long before college) as did many of yours. Â This really isn't a huge deal, and it'll give a hand-up to some deserving kids. Â I'd rather see my taxes spent on this than on any number of other things, because these will be taxes well-invested in our future. Â
@Sundowner As a native Northwesterner (WA, then OR), I again must utter the words in disgust to myself: "Nothing good ever comes from Kah-leee-for-nya" - to quote some short muscular actor dude.
@ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsPhredEÂ Try again. Â I was born in Washington. Â And if you give so much credence to an imaginary political line drawn just south of Ashland, you're pretty xenophobic. Â Wanna put up a wall down there? Â Lame.
@Sundowner @hokeywolf No doubt. Why gripe about California? The only real reason i had to leave California for Portland is because of a job offer that obviously nobody in the whole of the NW could do. But trust, once i am able i'll be going home. But no hurt feelings.
@hokeywolf I have a difficult time with the whole southern Oregon border debate.  I never hear the same mumbo-jumbo when it comes to people "immigrating" here from Idaho.  Just weird to me.
@Sundowner @ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsPhredE I have to admit that I would like a fence down there too. But that is a different discussion.
@Sundowner @ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsPhredE Deal with it.
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@Dr. Rawdog @ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsPhredE @Sundowner Too bad.
Just plain BS. Â Note how the politicians vote on this crap and remember them next election. Â Any politician of any party voting OK on this needs to be fired and deported to Mexico.
Use of welfare programs by immigrants is important for two primary reasons. First, it is one measure of their impact on American society. If immigrants have high use rates it could be an indication that they are creating a net fiscal burden for the country. Welfare programs comprise a significant share of federal, and even state, expenditures. Total costs for the programs examined in this study were $517 billion in fiscal year 2008 http://www.cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011
Center For Immigration Studies - In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children. http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011
@beagle154 I guess the next best thing to US Census data is a source that advocates low immigration. No bias there... no none at all. Come on Beagle154, and everyone else, tell me that you wouldn't slap down use of such a biased source if the it was used as a "fact" for an argument you opposed?
@beagle154Â You said the information was contained in the Census and then couldn't provide a link. Â Now you're providing a link by a known anti-immigration group. Â Try again.
@Sundowner @beagle154 ' Now you're providing a link by a known anti-immigration group.'
And they have EVERY RIGHT AND OBLIGATION TO BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE -- get over it.
@hokeywolf @cwpholder @Sundowner That's completely wrong..
Fact- I showered this morning..Â
Fact- 42 illegals applied for food & medical aide this morning in my friends office alone.Â
Fact I quit smoking one week ago today.
None of those can be proven, save maybe the I quit smoking part because of my lack of patience. Yet they are all 100%% true.Â
There are MANY MANY facts that can't be verified. Evidence is NOT always available.Â
@cwpholder @Sundowner Some facts can't be backed up?? Then it is not a fact but an opinion.Â
@Sundowner @cwpholder Naw,, as I said I didn't mean to direct it at YOU personally. I see it all the time..
I understand asking for proof if somebody states a hard fact like that but also a lot of facts can't be backed up. It's tough to get solid proof of how many illegals receive govt assistance & other numbers surrounding them, for obvious reasons.Â
@cwpholder I agree with you, but when someone cites as fact something that isn't, my hackles come up because at least half the time it's nothing more than right-wing talking points.  beagle154 started things off this morning stating as fact that 47% of all "illegals" received government assistance.  He has yet to provide a single non-partisan link to support his claim.  Sorry that I bugged you about it. Â
@Sundowner @ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsPhredE I hear/read/see thousands of bits of information every day. Much of that I "can't back up" that doesn't make it a lie.
This is a discussion forum, not a court of law. Some things can't be immediately verified by a link and even if they could, it isn't my job to provide proof of anything.
A person should be able to participate in a casual discussion and not be grilled for links & proof. If I post something I'm aware of and you choose not to believe it- so be it. If you want "evidence 'or proof" Â it's just as easy for you to google it yourself.
This isn't directed at just you but I do see you demand links & evidence quite often as have others.
This is the Internet- not a court of law. People should be free to post an opinion or what they've read, heard. :)
@ThePosterFormerlyKnownAsPhredEÂ Yes they do, as do those on the opposite side. Â But from the very beginning, beagle154 made a claim that he can't back up (aka, LIE), so instead he provides a one-sided opinion. Â He can't back up his original claim and might as well admit he made it up.
@beagle154 That study does not attempt to break down illegal vs. legal immigrant, but the point is a good one and  more research into this area needs to be done. Also, other studies have documented the welfare / aid given to illegals (primarily through their children).  If we give everything to everyone that wants to come here, what will be left for citizens and legal residents???
Well everybody, I've enjoyed the discourse this morning but I've got to go. Have a nice day (even if you think I'm a jerk, which I am). :)
Have a good one, I always enjoy a good debate.
I kind of see this as employing the same model as the cell phone, cable tv, and other similar providers. Â When you're a new customer, you get all kinds of discounts but try to get those same discounts after being "in the system" for any amount of time. Â You're just chopped liver and they raise the prices on you because you're already hooked-in. Â We're all just customers to Uncle Sam.
@negativerep Actually, it's the same discount that everyone else can get. It's just applied to illegals, and that is what has everyone... well a little upset.
@JTesla Good point!