Tuition equity for illegal immigrants passionately debated
SALEM, Ore. (AP) — Oregon lawmakers heard passionate appeals Wednesday from people on both sides of the debate over providing in-state tuition for young immigrants brought illegally to the United States as children.
A state House committee could vote by the end of the week on whether to advance the measure to the full House of Representatives.
Students considered Oregon residents pay about $20,000 less per year at the state's largest universities. Illegal immigrants pay the higher tuition rate charged to out-of-state and international students.
Young illegal immigrants told lawmakers they've worked hard in high school and dream of going to college but could never afford the nonresident tuition.
"You don't know how it is not to be able to dream to go to college, not because you're not smart, but because you have no way to pay for it," said Hugo Nicolas, a Chemeketa Community College student from Salem who was brought illegally to the U.S. when he was 11.
Opponents say the measure would confer a benefit to illegal immigrants that isn't available to U.S. citizens who happen to live in other states.
"I think we're cheapening the value of being a citizen of the United States," Don Nash, of Lake Oswego, told lawmakers.
House Bill 2787 would allow illegal immigrants to pay resident tuition at Oregon's seven public universities if they've graduated from an Oregon high school and lived in the United States for at least five years, at least three of them in Oregon. They'd have to sign an affidavit swearing they'll apply to legalize their immigration status as soon as they're legally eligible.
Illegal immigrants can't legally work in the United States, but proponents say President Barack Obama's push for a federal immigration overhaul could create a pathway to citizenship for many. They say children have no control over the decision to immigrate without legal documents.
"The only way this bill could be broadly applicable is with the passage of a mass amnesty on the federal level," said Cynthia Kendoll, of Salem.
Resident tuition and fees for 15 credits at the University of Oregon, the average course load, are currently $9,310 per year. For nonresidents, it's $28,650.
"When I think about my future after high school, I think about the opportunities that are being closed because of my legal status, when I worked as much or more than other students." said Karla Castaneda, a junior at Parkrose High School in Portland whose family illegally immigrated when she was 4. "I didn't do anything wrong. I attend school. I get good grades. And I help my community."
Illegal immigrants would be subject to the same entrance requirements as other university applicants and would not be eligible for state or federal financial aid.
Copyright 2013 The Associated Press.
Don't prisons offer classes
Why do the liberal politicians continually reward bad behavior?
Have they got no morals?
Do they not know right from wrong?
Or are they that determined to totally destroy America and civilization?
This is just another example of things that need to be fixed with our immigration laws.Â
I would assume that these are individuals who have lived (and grown up) here in Oregon and would otherwise be considered a resident of Oregon, for tuition purposes.Â
David Kobbeman Portland
David Kobbeman Portland
David Kobbeman Portland
So we need 30 million migrants to pick lettuce? The Governor can pick my nose.
Why do some think that criminals should be rewarded for their crimes?
PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST AN AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS!
WHY SIGNING THIS PETITION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN OTHERS!
While every petition, fax, email and phone call against the amnesty is important, signing this petition is by far the most important single thing one of your friends or relatives can do.
The reason is that signing this petition puts a person into an email system at NumbersUSA that will alert them every time one of their elected officials needs to hear something specific about immigration. Nobody else but NumbersUSA runs a customized grassroots mobilization system like this that constantly gathers information on Capitol Hill about your Members of Congress and then lets you know what they are doing, saying and thinking about immigration policy.
The New York Times and other mass media have repeatedly stated that NumbersUSA's mobilization network led the efforts that defeated the close-call amnesty efforts of 2007 and 2010. But the forces for open borders are far more powerful today. It will take hundreds of thousands of additional people on the email list to push back the amnesty this time. Please help us by referring the petition widely.
https://www.numbersusa.com/sendfax?id=14372
@Bill Nelson Sent it! Easy peasy. Only took about 30 seconds with your link.
Wow, so they would pay a cheaper tuition than American citizens from other states? Hmmmmm, doesnt make sense to me.
@Nik It's called "progressive social justice".Â
Cart before the horse.  Â
If becoming LEGAL is too expensive/long a process and that is the real problem with having so many illegal individuals in the country, then fix that issue first. Don't start at the back end and offer discounted education for the illegal children here that can't legally work here because they aren't legal citizens due to the messed up immigration laws. (If that's the case.) Â
If the laws aren't messed up and/or too costly, then insist on the legalization of the family before the child is allowed into college - and thus automatically gains the benefits of all legal Oregonian students.
Send whitey back to Europe!
Hey, have them enlist for a 4 year hitch in the military and then they can go to college.
"Â Opponents say the measure would confer a benefit to illegal immigrants that isn't available to U.S. citizens who happen to live in other states." Â (from the story)
This is one of my main objections to all these "freebies" (well, not free to the tax-payers)... If we have all this money to spend on funding college students, then, IMHO, Â we should be offering this in-state tuition discount to out-of-state US citizens and LEGAL residents FIRST. Â Â
My other objection, and perhaps even more important, is the cold, cruel slap-in-the-face that we give each and every person who has applied for LEGAL entry into the US... The legal process is a long one, and it requires work, patience, and money... Â By "streamlining" the process for people who are not legally here, we're telling all the LEGAL immigrants that they just don't matter; that they are just "not worthy", BUT that people who just jump the border or overstay their visas, ARE worthy of all kinds of special consideration. Â Â
I am beyond disgusted..!
People wake up. These people are here illegally. I vote to ship them all back to their homeland.
Every time we vote/grant them anything, it raises our TAXES. I'm so fed up giving my hard earned money to illegals.
If they don't like the conditions they are living in....go HOME!!! I don't want you here to start.
Here's a tidbit from CBC
South Korean illegally in Canada, arrested for a sexual assault on Feb 4 2013. Today he is back in SK and will be prosecuted by Korean authorities for other charges.
Hmm, while not all cases are handled so quickly, it would seem that the US should try to speed up the garbage pickup.
Once again,  its laws like these are a total slap in the face to all the legal immigrants.
As someone who managed to earn a few 4 points while taking up to 22 credit hours and managed to graduate Cum Laud I take extreme exception to any tax money being spent on illegal aliens who can never work in this country according to the law of the land. (Unless the break a few more of the current laws that is...)
So what this act does is send someone down to the border and yell into a megaphone.....
COME AND GET IT FREE MONEY !!!!!!!!!
deport them all.
That's a bad bill that's going to make people of state of Oregon to pay for them.  We lost alot of money supportin these Illegal Immgration in Oregon   Join USA NUMBERS.COM
"Hey, come on over the border - it's just a line. We got work for ya. There're veggies to be picked, drywall to be hung, kids to be nannied. We like paying those low wages and keeping our prices low, low to match.
"What! You actually crossed the border and still haven't left? And you brought a four year old? Wasn't there like an orphanage you could have left him at? It's all your fault. We just wanted the benefits of this system, not the costs!"
@Max Quinn   I would happily pay a bit more for veggies and such if the labor was provided by those born here or invited here.Â
I'd also be very happy to have smaller class sizes by not having to educate kids here illegally
Just think how much better we could help take care of American citizens if illegals weren't sucking up social services.
I'd also be very happy to pay a bit less for my police protection as illegals are four times more likely to come in contact with the law.
Illegals are also more likely to be driving UNINSURED.
The net effect of illegal aliens is a COST not a benefit.
@kramr Can you point to some sources?
There are about 80,000,000 school age children. According to Judicial Watch (conservative site), 1.5 million are illegal. That's 1.9% - enjoy those 1.9% smaller classrooms.
I couldn't find the 4 time more likely number. But, the recidivism rate for illegals is 16%. For the general prison population it's 43%. http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/01/nation/la-na-illegal-immigrants-20120801
Social services: "Illegal immigrants are generally barred from receiving such payments." Most aid illegal might get is food and healthcare, and this is usually because a family member is legal. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/20/facebook-posts/facebook-post-says-less-2-percent-illegals-are-pic/
They are more likely to be uninsured.
I'm not saying it's not a problem. But it helps when the information used in the discuss is accurate.
@Max Quinn @kramr Fine. Then just deny them citizens rights. I'm fine with that. Perhaps they will be inspired to go back to the homeland and fix things up with the knowledge they have gained here.Â
@Max Quinn @kramr   """""The part that seems to exempt employers from any penalty. """""
I am all for E verify with VERY stiff penalties for employers.Â
"""""""And technically, the people who would be eligible for in-state tuition did not break the law. """"""
Spin however you want, they are in this country illegally, for better or for worse,  the kids have to live by the parents decisions.  IMHO, blame the parents for their poor decisions intead of us who find it completely wrong to reward law breakers. Â
BTW Max, What do you say to the immigrants who came here legally and feel like they've been slapped in the face with this kind of legislation.
@kramr @Max Quinn The part that seems to exempt employers from any penalty. A few here are there are threatened with jail time, but for the most part hiring illegals has and is a solid business proposition - as long as you can claim plausible deniability. Again, the immigrants bear the costs, the employers get the benefits, and you and me get a mixed bag.
And technically, the people who would be eligible for in-state tuition did not break the law. They were minors when they were brought here and, under our legal system, children are not held accountable for a parent's crime.Â
@Max Quinn @kramr  So what you are trying to say is that if its a relatively small number then we can overlook it?? IMHO, wrong is wrong regardless of what the number is.
Everyone comes here for work or bettering their lives, coming here illegally does NOT excuse the laws they have broken.
if they are here working, illegals broke the law comming here, they continure to break it by living here and they are most likely committing a felony by stealing a SS# to work
What part of breaking the law is not to be rewarded is so hard to understand?
@kramr The idea is to put a number on what they might be getting in social services. That way we know how big the problem is. Otherwise, people will start thinking that illegals come hear for the social services and not because so many people are willing to hire them.
@Max Quinn @kramr  Well, at my kids high school its a lot higher than 1.9%% I would also add,  per student illegals are far more expensive per pupil  to educate as many require ESL classes and/or translators . bottom line, they are far more expensive than just the 2%% you claim.
C'mon now you and I both know illegals are getting social services. Please explain why the phone trees for many social services are in spanish when a requirement of becoming a citizen is learning english.....
Stop wasting time and money on this issue. Just say no!
""""Illegal immigrants would be subject to the same entrance requirements as other university applicants and would NOT be eligible for state or federal financial aid."""""""
Ya, just like illegals are not supposed to suck up social services as well?????  what a bold face lie.
Apparently these kids are intelligent enough to want to go to college, so you'd think they would plan ahead and apply for citizenship during high school.
I saw the headline on the homepage and the first thought in my mind was time for the left to trot out some kids to appeal to the emotional side of the argument, and sure enough..........
This is nothing but a thinly valed attempt at amnesty.......cause once they are educated the argument will be..... well, we've got so much invested in them now....... can't just send them back now and they can't work until they're legalized so amnesty is the only answer.Â
IMHO the only rational answer now is a big NO on in state tuition for those in this country illegally!!
Breaking the law should not be rewarded!!
Why should I have to pay for your parents crime? How long have you known you were brought here illegally?
You supposedly educated children should have figured it out by now that you and your parents were breaking the law.
No amnesty! I don't care how you want to spin it... it's still amnesty.
What makes an illegal alien kid any better than my kids?
@Razor1 Liberal white guilt wrapped in that ever so trendy "social justice" meme.
How were these "educated" illegals going to use their "education" for work without a valid SS# ? More illegal trickery right ?
Let the public vote on it and that will put it to rest.......for awhile.
'Tuition equity for illegal immigrants passionately debate' Why is this even being debated? There can only be one answer for this debate. And that answer is a resounding NO! Illegal immigrants don't deserve $h!t, they are little more than parasites, except a one way ticket back to Mexico or Guatemala or where ever they came from.  Â
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@Dr. Rawdog @theobserver Apparently, only at a discounted rate.
How's this for equity: Go back to the country you came from, get your schooling there, apply for citizenship here when you're done with school.
To all children of "undocumented aliens": if your parents brought you here illegally when you were a child, you are not to blame for that. What you are accountable for is what you do when you realize you are here illegally. If you are of legal age and do nothing about your immigration status, you are as much a criminal as your parents. You should expect nothing from this country except a fair trial and deportation upon conviction.
And they should just be thankful for the free K-12 education that they just received!
i wonder ,what part of the word "ILLEGAL" don,t these folks understand?
I rather my tax money go to upwardly mobile kids who came here through no fault of their own than the so called "Americans" who do nothing but use up welfare and further degrade our great nation. Â It's the Godly thing to do, and the right thing to do.
@Benjamin Schniffle Of course you do.
@Benjamin Schniffle   """"", and the right thing to do."""""
The "right" thing to do is reward those who have broken the law just being in this country?
The "right" thing to do is reward those who continue to break the law by working here
(assuming they work and not just suck up social services)
The "right" thing to do is reward those who have committed a felony by stealing a SS#?
You my friend have a very odd definition of what "right" is
@Benjamin Schniffle 'It's the Godly thing to do, and the right thing to do.'
So, you're willing to give some unearned benefit to people that have knowingly broken 1 or more laws over Americans that have played by the rules? Wow. Â Doesn't sound very 'Godly' to me. Â The people that degrade our nation primarily are the ones that don't play by rules or aspire toward lawlessness. Poverty, 'laziness', lack of education, etc. -- and in fact, are endemic to just about any society on earth -- are one thing, but a fundamental lack of respect for the basic civil order take the morality comparison to a whole new level.Â
@Benjamin Schniffle Wouldn't the morally defensible position be to reserve  sympathies for the victims of crime, not the perpetrators?
@Benjamin Schniffle .......U SRS BRO?
I am not at all sorry to say that I do not agree that people here in the US illegally, illegal residence, are no more entitled to free schooling than I would be entitled to the property in a home if I broke in and took up residence. Its nothing more than thievery IMHO. That being said, Illegally here or not, all people should be treated with dignity and respect. If they are hungry we have a moral duty to feed them. If they are injured we must care for them. And if they are homeless, we must provide them shelter. We do this for all without discrimination. But we must, upon condition of these serveries, proceed to return them safe and sound to their home country as soon as circumstanced would permit.
@Ray Williams "no more entitled to free schooling than I would be entitled to the property in a home if I broke in and took up residence"
That's an excellent, concise way to explain why this is wrong. Â Thanks. Â