Washington state looks at stern rules for juveniles with guns
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - Washington lawmakers began exploring a proposal Thursday that would send more youths into a rehabilitation program if they are caught illegally possessing a gun.
In a committee hearing before the state House, King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg said current law leaves the impression that the state tolerates juvenile possession of firearms by allowing them to quickly return back to their ways. He said it's important to send a message about the long-term consequences of using a gun.
"A lot of what we're trying to do here is turn a kid's life around," Satterberg said.
Democratic Rep. Christopher Hurst, an Enumclaw lawmaker sponsoring the bill, said the state needs to help kids avoid making foolish decisions that will change their lives forever.
The American Civil Liberties Union of Washington opposed the bill, with legislative director Shankar Narayan saying the effort could actually start the process of cycling people in and out of prison for the rest of their lives. He said there's no evidence that the proposal would help decrease youth violence and that the plan takes away options from judges.
State officials project that the bill would cost between about $1 million to $3 million per year, and the ACLU believes that money would be better spent on other intervention efforts.
"We need to spend our precious public safety resources where they will actually make a difference," Narayan said.
The measure handles cases depending on age, type of conviction and past offenses, but many juveniles convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm would face an initial sentence of at least 15 weeks in the rehabilitation program.
The House Judiciary Committee did not take a vote on the measure.
In a committee hearing before the state House, King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg said current law leaves the impression that the state tolerates juvenile possession of firearms by allowing them to quickly return back to their ways. He said it's important to send a message about the long-term consequences of using a gun.
"A lot of what we're trying to do here is turn a kid's life around," Satterberg said.
Democratic Rep. Christopher Hurst, an Enumclaw lawmaker sponsoring the bill, said the state needs to help kids avoid making foolish decisions that will change their lives forever.
The American Civil Liberties Union of Washington opposed the bill, with legislative director Shankar Narayan saying the effort could actually start the process of cycling people in and out of prison for the rest of their lives. He said there's no evidence that the proposal would help decrease youth violence and that the plan takes away options from judges.
State officials project that the bill would cost between about $1 million to $3 million per year, and the ACLU believes that money would be better spent on other intervention efforts.
"We need to spend our precious public safety resources where they will actually make a difference," Narayan said.
The measure handles cases depending on age, type of conviction and past offenses, but many juveniles convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm would face an initial sentence of at least 15 weeks in the rehabilitation program.
The House Judiciary Committee did not take a vote on the measure.
Really the ACLU does not want us to punish criminals color me shocked. Instead of passing more and more laws how about you try enforcing the ones already passed. Â Another idea stronger penalties for felons caught with guns please these guys know its illegal for them to have guns so they should face a much stiffer penalty.
 @Jeremy except kids having guns doesn't make them a criminal per the second amendment? so your hatred of the aclu in this case is uncalled for.
The program will be full of gang bangers since this is the group that seems to have more kids with guns.  Just try getting them into a  program.  Won't happen.  As far as the rest of us who learned at a young age how to sensibly handle a gun, I guess we will have to suffer the consequences because of the actions of a few.  It's easier to keep us from having guns than it is the delinquents. Â
 @Shadow nice veil of racism you show there.  last i read, lanza knew how to sensibly handle a gun also
 @diddy_bop  @Shadow Racism, really? As far as I know, "gang banger" is not a race. They could be from pretty much any ethnic group...
 @Ifishsum  @Shadow i've been alive long enough and seen enough on this board to know that 'gang banger' is just another euphimism for being an inherent racist.  at least down south, they'd own their racism proudly
Add convicted felons to the list.
Do you think they stop and wonder if they will get in trouble for picking up a gun? Look for the violent kids and get them help.
As a gun owner at 12 years old I wonder if they would have put me in jail for out shooting my 22 or deer hunting with my 30-06 at 12-17.
Â
Given 5 years olds get expelled for having a paper L at school I don't doubt that today they would go after someone like myself big time...
@FreedomRocks --- @FreedomRocks --- I still have my .22 Remington bolt action rifle I got at 11-12 years old. Shooting squirrels and rats with my dad was priceless. I also walked several miles to school by myself when I was 5. If I mishandled my rifle I would have been beat within an inch of my life. Stern laws oh my. Little Jimmy, touch a gun and we will take away your violent video game privileges for 15 weeks. It will be okay to see violent movies though. Whatever!
 @FreedomRocks Maybe that's why they want the laws on the books.Â
Â
"See, the laws aren't working. We need mandatory sentences for anyone over five who makes a 'threatening gesture' with a finger within 100 miles of any school.
I would think this Washington lawmaker would look to other states for information on successful youth / guns rehab programs.Heck, he should just call Rahm Emanuel.
This comment has been deleted
@Fed up Fed ...It is the (youth/gun) gang violence taking place in Chicago I'm referring to.Chicago has had highly publicized "Gang Summits" and huge gang outreach programs in an effort to curb gun violence in the city.Non-gang youth feel the need to arm themselves for protection.President Obama has also mentioned Chicago's street youth  (gun) violence in recent speeches.This isn't some NRA myth.City leaders call it an epidemic.This goes back several decades and many episodes of "Gangland" touch on Chicago's past / present problems.
 @Fed up Fed  @angry1 Actually aggressively enforcing current guns laws would make a big difference to but they don't do a good job at that so until they do further restricting us law abiding people does not make sense.
Â
After all we are not in grade school anymore where we punish the class for the actions of one kids. We are supposed to be adults now so lets crack down with an iron fist those causing the problems then see if we still continue to have a problem.
At what age does it become illegal to own a gun? If one minute you are a certain age, and the next minute you are considered a different age, what made the difference in one's ability to be responsible carrying a gun? Certainly, not that one minute. So laws restricting youth from carrying guns are ambiguous. I was hunting and shooting at the age of 8. I packed pistols and rifles. Shot my first deer at the age of 12. I was totally withing my Constitutional rights to keep and bear arms. The Constitution places no age limit on any person for the right to keep and bear arms. Laws restricting youth to do so are unconstutional and therefore illegal.
What, exactly, is "illegal" gun possession? Is this another case where we "have to pass this bill to find out what's in it"? Don't we ALREADY have laws against "illegal" possession??
Â
Let's not pass any more knee-jerk laws that will have absolutely no effect and take common sense out of the equation.Â
Actual parents take their kids to 4H, the scouts, hunters safety courses and things like that. In Utah and Alaska there are indoor rifle ranges at schools and nobody gets hurt. The problem is you get these liberal zones like Western Washington, and you can't trust very many of them with guns.
Â
Nearly every school shooter was either a liberal or the son of liberal parents. I'm really starting to believe that AR-15s belong in Pendleton and Corbett, and Washingtonians should have to get training and prove that they're not idiot liberals before purchasing guns. Prior military service would be an acceptable exclusion to the rule.
Extend these proposed rules to adults, and maybe we might have something here.
This comment has been deleted
Fifteen weeks. Right. How 'bout 15 years?
Kids with illegal guns will get an education on gun maintenance, usage, and appropriateness of being in one's possession. Â I see nothing wrong with it. Â Catch them early, teach them right, create responsible gun owners. Â Who can argue against this good logic?
This is really bizarre. They want to send kids who are caught with illegal guns to rehabilitation. And the ACLU says that isn't what should be done because it will make the kids career criminals.
Â
You can't make this stuff up.
Â
Here is what needs to be done.
Â
Go to the schools. Make every kid in the school take a class on the consequences of violating the laws of the land. Include a very strong segment on gun laws and that it is illegal for a child to have an illegal gun.
Â
Do this every year in every grade above 4th grade.
Â
Then if a kid gets caught with an illegal gun they can't say they didn't know and change them with a crime.
@RalphCramden You are mistaken when you talk about "illegal guns" in regards to he article. The article talks about it being illegal for youth to carry guns of any type. The youth being illegal. not the guns. But I strongly agree with your suggestion, which has been mine for years but no one ever listens to us with common sense;, that gun laws, breaking laws, and the subsequent consequences should be taught at our schools starting Grade 5. It's just a travesty that our schools have to teach what lazy irresponsible parents won't.
@RalphCramden Wow. I have NEVER agreed with you before. Good post.
 @Mechanic  @RalphCramden Jeesh -- don't tell him!  He gets all BigHeadFred when you do that!
 @RalphCramden Kind of like what we should be doing with illegals?
So where do kids get guns? Â Gun shows, NO, pawn shops, NO, Nickel Ads, NO, department stores, NO, street corner, NO. Â But do they get them from home, YES. Â Start solving the problem at the root of it, rather than coming up with stupid ideas that will have no effect.
This comment has been deleted
 @Fed up Fed  @RandyH Yes and the straw buyer should have served 20 years in jail. Since you seem to always know so much any idea if they were even charged with a crime for what they did since it is illegal?
Â
Crack down on current gun crimes and much of the problem will go away.
@RandyH And where do the grown-ups (so called, anyway) get the guns? Gun shows? YES. Pawn shops? YES. Nickel Ads? YES. Department Stores? YES. But you are wrong about the street corners. Kids get them there, and so do adults. As I have said before, the bad guys and crazies (yeah, and there are not only crazy kids, there are evil kids too) get the guns from the purported "good guys" who are either careless or not so good. We need to control the sources of the guns. All of them. All the time.
I'd like to hear about your idea to control the source of the guns.....
 @Jeepers If an adult knowingly provides a child with a gun --ESPECIALLY without parental involvement-- the penalty should be something equivalent to the child's, only adult sentencing. So if I sell you a gun and you rob a bank, I go to jail for bank robbery.If an adult unknowingly provides a child with a gun in a manner in which breaking and entering a stranger's domicile isn't involved--the uncle left it out, mommy didn't secure the shotgun--then some lesser sentence would be appropriate, along the lines of negligence rather than outright commission of crime.
Â
Thoughts?
 @RandyH Perfect, and here's your solution. If a juvenile commits a crime while in possession of a firearm, it's an automatic five, up to ten, years in prison for the idiot kid. If it turns out they got said weapon from a parent (or whatever adult), the parent serves at least a year in prison and forfeits all gun rights for life. Change begins at home. If you can't raise a respectable child you have no business possessing a firearm. Stick to hammers and boards with nails.
@badcat @RandyH And who is going to pay for the new masses suddenly flooding our already overly crowded prison system? Unfortunately, before more people can be imprisoned for new crimes, facilities need to be constructed, at astronomical costs. Are you willing to have your taxes adjusted accordingly? Prevention starts with education. I think that is the most reasonable and economical means at reducing youth gun violence.
 @badcat  @RandyH Even great parents can raise a sheety child. I don't think a parent should get in trouble if the child stole it, unless it was just laying around.
 @TreeWizard  @badcat  @RandyH I'm afraid I have to agree that good parents can raise crappy children--some are just born that way, all things being equal--and those are the ones who should recognize that and have extra security measures. Saying your child is out of control is an excuse, not a solution.Love your avatar, BTW.
 @badcat  @RandyH Good stuff.
Â
Â